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  1. #1

    [Balance] Weird opener/cd's usage, yet, high dps

    So this dude from my realm did 111k dps on hm spir kings doing an weird opener:

    - start at 1 cast solar (!?!?), then 1 starfire to solar (I saw him replacing this opener on Feg with a straight Astral Communion to get NG's buff)
    - starfall
    - pop *all* cds: INC + NV + CA (!?!?)
    - 1 cast to apply both dots (since CA is up)
    - spam starfire
    - starfall when prev is down
    - re-apply dots with 1 cast right before CA is done
    - spam wrath to lunar & proceed to normal rotation

    He rank'd 36th for that one... Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2331&e=2802
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...anami/advanced

    What do you guys think of this? Is it just his gear or luck with crits that got him that high dps? Or is this opener/burn rotation better?

    I can see how you stacking CA will stack another 15% damage on top of NV+INC at the start, but when CA is done the remaining time of his INC will be pretty much going to waste... I'm honestly confused about this as very curious to test it out my self (not at home now).

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by land; 2013-01-18 at 06:10 PM.

  2. #2
    By doing it this way he is skipping the weaker Solar Ecplise, and his NV+ INC will last long enough to atleast re-apply both dots and hit Starfall when he hits Lunar. He most likely also will go fast ot Lunar since he probally has a shooting stars buff helping him because of increased crit by pot and trinkets.

    Im am doing something simular on Elegon, to burn the adds faster down. But not really sure if the opener helped him to reach 111k DPS

  3. #3
    The Patient Quackie's Avatar
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    Crit Chicken BGAK!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Riderz View Post
    By doing it this way he is skipping the weaker Solar Ecplise, and his NV+ INC will last long enough to atleast re-apply both dots and hit Starfall when he hits Lunar. He most likely also will go fast ot Lunar since he probally has a shooting stars buff helping him because of increased crit by pot and trinkets.

    Im am doing something simular on Elegon, to burn the adds faster down. But not really sure if the opener helped him to reach 111k DPS
    Makes sense except the fact why would he not just start in Solar? Nothing benefits from NG up to the point he hits CA that procs one anw. Not sure if NG affects GCD though...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Makes sense except the fact why would he not just start in Solar? Nothing benefits from NG up to the point he hits CA that procs one anw. Not sure if NG affects GCD though...
    Okay so maybe that's what hes doing, I saw that he wasn't in any eclipse at start of hm Feng (he also did a pretty high dps there, 120k ish I think, hurricaned the adds)...

  6. #6
    He is wasting quite a lot of DPS by using the CDs before Subetai joins the fight. CDs on two targets > CDs on one target.

    He wouldn't even lose a set of cooldowns as the fight lasted for 7:50 instead of 6:30 or something.

  7. #7
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by land View Post
    So this dude from my realm did 111k dps on hm spir kings doing an weird opener:

    - start at 1 cast solar (!?!?), then 1 starfire to solar (I saw him replacing this opener on Feg with a straight Astral Communion to get NG's buff)
    - starfall
    - pop *all* cds: INC + NV + CA (!?!?)
    - 1 cast to apply both dots (since CA is up)
    - spam starfire
    - starfall when prev is down
    - re-apply dots with 1 cast right before CA is done
    - spam wrath to lunar & proceed to normal rotation

    He rank'd 36th for that one... Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2331&e=2802
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...anami/advanced

    What do you guys think of this? Is it just his gear or luck with crits that got him that high dps? Or is this opener/burn rotation better?

    I can see how you stacking CA will stack another 15% damage on top of NV+INC at the start, but when CA is done the remaining time of his INC will be pretty much going to waste... I'm honestly confused about this as very curious to test it out my self (not at home now).

    Thoughts?
    Meh it's actually not that different from the standard opener. All he's doing is doing CA --> Lunar INC instead of the standard Lunar INC --> CA. Either way you finish at the exact same point on your Eclipse bar, still get 3 Starfalls, etc. The way it stands now with no movement you have about 2-3 casts of Incarnation up but no eclipse/CA. He will always have 4 casts unless he gets a SS proc (or SS comes off CD) and generally speaking SS outside of Eclipse is never great so his way is probably a tiny, tiny bit worse.

    But to answer your question no, his opener did not allow him do any extra DPS over doing it the normal way.

  8. #8
    Sounds like it's just a waste of Incarnation at the expense of bursting really hard at the start to me.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    my trinks run out by the time i hit CA (majority of the time). So if popped together i'd think the extra boost from the trinks lining up would make up for the little lost time on inc. They both would end up being close to each other.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Saoron View Post
    my trinks run out by the time i hit CA (majority of the time). So if popped together i'd think the extra boost from the trinks lining up would make up for the little lost time on inc. They both would end up being close to each other.
    Then it would be 1 extra dot benefiting from trinkets vs. 6-8 Inc+NV secs lost...

  12. #12
    Sorry for beeing noob

    but how did he manage to add 1 gem socket to his weapon ? ")[COLOR="red"]



    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...anami/advanced

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Seexy View Post
    Sorry for beeing noob

    but how did he manage to add 1 gem socket to his weapon ? ")[COLOR="red"]



    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...anami/advanced
    next part of the legendary quest line. You can add a prismatic socket to a sha touched weapon.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire
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    Actually, although I originally thought it was stupid, looking at logs his raid group used lust on pull. This means that generally the timings will be that you pop cd's and dots first here (after prepull starfall and starsurge, while in solar probably), you use starfall during CA and then dots in the end again, then rotate to and through lunar while still having NV/incar and being able to put up a fully buffed moonfire, going on to solar and refreshing sunfire that most likely only just fell off.
    I still don't think it's better dps, due to procs most likely still running on the uneclipsed casts making them less effective, and having to clip the second CA moonfire. However I wouldn't completely throw such an opening out of the window.
    Doing this without lust would defnitely be worse than timing with lunar eclipse, but sometimes you don't have that luxery

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    Actually, although I originally thought it was stupid, looking at logs his raid group used lust on pull. This means that generally the timings will be that you pop cd's and dots first here (after prepull starfall and starsurge, while in solar probably), you use starfall during CA and then dots in the end again, then rotate to and through lunar while still having NV/incar and being able to put up a fully buffed moonfire, going on to solar and refreshing sunfire that most likely only just fell off.
    I still don't think it's better dps, due to procs most likely still running on the uneclipsed casts making them less effective, and having to clip the second CA moonfire. However I wouldn't completely throw such an opening out of the window.
    Doing this without lust would defnitely be worse than timing with lunar eclipse, but sometimes you don't have that luxery
    I actually did the solar eclipse opener on Sha of Fear progress since I got tricks on pull def gave me bigger numbers due to the fact you pump up everything in the game up in the start (trinkets, tricks, pot etc) Managed to spike to 500-600k a few times and do 500-600k tricks singletarget.

  16. #16
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrations View Post
    I actually did the solar eclipse opener on Sha of Fear progress since I got tricks on pull def gave me bigger numbers due to the fact you pump up everything in the game up in the start (trinkets, tricks, pot etc) Managed to spike to 500-600k a few times and do 500-600k tricks singletarget.
    I don't see why it would be any better than starting in Lunar. You have everything in the game up at the start as well, plus a buffed Starfall, plus Starfire being so much better than Wrath.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    I don't see why it would be any better than starting in Lunar. You have everything in the game up at the start as well, plus a buffed Starfall, plus Starfire being so much better than Wrath.
    But you still cast starfire when you pop everyone cd from the start? Oo

  18. #18
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrations View Post
    But you still cast starfire when you pop everyone cd from the start? Oo
    Yeah you are getting tricks to benefit both Eclipsed dots then by using CA immediately, makes sense. But trinkets are still random so there's no guarantee that they will both proc at the very beginning.

    I don't think it's any noticeable difference either way tbh. I think with tricks and good RNG with trinket procs you could spike that high as well doing a normal opener.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Yeah you are getting tricks to benefit both Eclipsed dots then by using CA immediately, makes sense. But trinkets are still random so there's no guarantee that they will both proc at the very beginning.

    I don't think it's any noticeable difference either way tbh. I think with tricks and good RNG with trinket procs you could spike that high as well doing a normal opener.
    You don't lose any of your incarnation doing this and I did more dps doing this most of the time.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrations View Post
    You don't lose any of your incarnation doing this and I did more dps doing this most of the time.
    However, what you do get is that you are casting 3-4 uneclipsed nukes without the benefit of incarnation while your trinkets/possible other procs are up, while the standard opener doesn't have this.

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