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  1. #21
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrations View Post
    You don't lose any of your incarnation doing this and I did more dps doing this most of the time.
    Yeah I must be misunderstanding what you're doing then. As Miraclous said, how do you not lose any of your Incarnation? After CA ends you have to push into Lunar. Something is not making sense.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Yeah I must be misunderstanding what you're doing then. As Miraclous said, how do you not lose any of your Incarnation? After CA ends you have to push into Lunar. Something is not making sense.
    That's not what I meant, you're not losing Incarnation. Because altough you have 3-4 nukes without incar while going from 0 -> lunar, in the standard rotation you'd have these casts after CA expires loosing just as much incar.
    However, trinkets last only 20 secs and some procs even less. Those do get wasted on the 3-4 nukes where as in the normal rotation they'd all be up during eclipsed starfires/starfall.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    That's not what I meant, you're not losing Incarnation. Because altough you have 3-4 nukes without incar while going from 0 -> lunar, in the standard rotation you'd have these casts after CA expires loosing just as much incar.
    However, trinkets last only 20 secs and some procs even less. Those do get wasted on the 3-4 nukes where as in the normal rotation they'd all be up during eclipsed starfires/starfall.
    Wait, what? The main point of normal rotation is the timing synergy of the cds. 14-15sec of Lunar that leaves 15-16sec of Inc+NV with the 15sec of CA. Unless you people are talking about a completely different scenario. But normal opener has not cd downtimes.

  4. #24
    The only way this would be a dps gain is if Starfall benefits from NG. I'm not sure if it does, but this opener would get 3 Starfalls all affected by NG rather than 2/3 being affected as the normal opener is.

  5. #25
    Also understand that the guy you linked also has fairly good gear. It doesnt mean he intended for that to happen; he could have used his CDs properly through out the rest of fight.

    This gentleman is good at this class because he can do something out of the ordinary and still maintain a high ranking dps.

    The way he did it is very inefficient since he has to go through out 0-> Lunar (our biggest sustain dps problem because of the number of casts) Rather than having 3 lunar buffed starfalls, 2 NS powered DoTs and Eclipsed Nukes 100% of the time his CDs are up.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Yeah I must be misunderstanding what you're doing then. As Miraclous said, how do you not lose any of your Incarnation? After CA ends you have to push into Lunar. Something is not making sense.
    blblblbl and 15 % haste on sha of fear progress Oo

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrations View Post
    blblblbl and 15 % haste on sha of fear progress Oo
    Why would BL and 15% haste make any difference? You do still have to push from 0 -> lunar during cds = dps loss.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Wait, what? The main point of normal rotation is the timing synergy of the cds. 14-15sec of Lunar that leaves 15-16sec of Inc+NV with the 15sec of CA. Unless you people are talking about a completely different scenario. But normal opener has not cd downtimes.
    In this scenario we are talking about an opener where you either have bloodlust or Lei's Hope 15% on sha.
    With lust and lei's hope you'll be through lunar 100->0 in like 10 secs, followed by 15 secs of CA with the last 5secs being 'wasted' Incarnation.
    With the alternative opener you have this 'wasted' incarnation uptime in the middle of your opening burst, namely after CA, and then you go through lunar, without incarnation dropping until you are out (pretty close timing).
    I never used it as an opener, I just dummy tested it quickly with bloodlust after reading this thread to check out the timings, and they fit.

    It's just the shorter buffs, like trinkets and procs that won't have a full lunar/CA uptime using this alternative opener, which is why I think it's weaker.

    Also your final set of dots is weaker, instead of your first set in your normal opener. In the normal opener you clip the weakened dots and let the strong CA ones run for it's entirety, while in the alternative opener you're probably clipping the lunar dot of your final CA dots and your solar dot will not have any buffs at all.

  9. #29
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    This thread is just silly. Even without Lei's Hope or Bloodlust, using this different opener could still net you near the same DPS as doing it the normal way. In either case you are getting 3 starfalls, 15 secs of CA/INC, and a full Lunar/INC (you should have enough haste to push through all of Lunar and refresh Moonfire 1 cast before leaving).

    Those are all the big important things. Trinket/Jade spirit procs are entirely RNG so you can't really determine when they'll be up, just assume they will both be up at some point during the first 30 seconds. So this is a discussion about two nearly identical openers, just flip flopped order, wherein either one could be higher DPS depending on RNG.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    So this is a discussion about two nearly identical openers, just flip flopped order, wherein either one could be higher DPS depending on RNG.
    So this is a discussion about two different x, whein either one could be higher DPS depending on RNG.
    Fill in x as usage of starsurge, dot refreshes or going for haste breakpoints and you just defined boomkins. This does not mean that on average one option is mathematically better which can be discussed.

    Sure the difference is minor, that doesn't make it pointless.
    Last edited by Miraclous; 2013-01-21 at 06:13 PM.

  11. #31
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    Fill in x as usage of starsurge, dot refreshes or going for haste breakpoints and you just defined boomkins. This does not mean that on average one option is mathematically better which can be discussed.

    Sure the difference is minor, that doesn't make it pointless.
    My argument is that in this opener vs. opener argument it is completely out of the players control which one would net higher DPS (so long as you make sure to have a SS available post CA so it's only 3 casts to Lunar, not 4).

    All those things you mentioned are all things we can control so of course they are worth discussing which will net higher DPS.

  12. #32
    I do this sometimes too.

  13. #33
    I tested it out a few times against dummies and it did seem to do a bit extra deeps over, my dps always 2-3k dps higher whenever doing this new opener. It could just be pure rng, dunno.

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