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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    How do you know? How does blizzard know? If I quit tomorrow because I didn't want to pay $25 there's no way they would know. They do know if I did pay $25, but there's no way to know if I did NOT pay $25. Does that make sense? I know for a fact, because I have seen it, people quit because they don't want to pay $15 + $25 just to play the game on a different server with a group around their skill level because their current realm no longer offers that.
    I don't, but it is likely that the $25s they are getting monthly is greater than the $15s that they might lose. Companies the size of Blizzard, will have business analyst and management accountants, they can probably see the accurate $25s that are coming in monthly. While yes they might not be able to see who may quit or who might not, but if the current $25s a month is greater than the current lost of sub per month, than it is probably not worth it as the number you would have lost due to no free transfer won't be near as much as the total sub lost in a month, from those figures they can probably justify in the board meeting (yes, finance teams generally have monthly performance meeting for the board).

    I don't know what system/checks/forecast model that they use, but whatever they use most likely show they will lose more money cutting the $25 transfer fee than save some sub.

  2. #62
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    I'm sorry I was under the impression that starting over on a new realm was actually free. Was not aware they forced you to transfer.
    Let's be fair. This is simply not a realistic alternative for most people.

    Many of us have been playing the games for years. We have a lot invested in our existing characters. Aside from any emotional attachments we have based on history and memories, we have special items, many of which are no longer available, our old tier pieces, our full banks kitted out with bags and goodies. We have investments in professions, we have heirlooms, we have supporting alts, we have all our gold.

    To most people, it is not at all appealing to start on a new server and not only restart their whole gaming history with no heirlooms, no gold, no alts to make bags or glyphs or gear but also have to reinvest all that time they spent leveling and gearing their character (and any alts they may also want).

    Can one save the $25 and do it? Sure. Is it an appealing option for people who can't swing the costs? Not at all. Most people would probably rather just quit the game if they couldn't afford a transfer, or else stay on their current server and play unhappily until the game stops being fun and they quit that way.

    Server transfers are popular for a reason.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Let's be fair. This is simply not a realistic alternative for most people.

    Many of us have been playing the games for years. We have a lot invested in our existing characters. Aside from any emotional attachments we have based on history and memories, we have special items, many of which are no longer available, our old tier pieces, our full banks kitted out with bags and goodies. We have investments in professions, we have heirlooms, we have supporting alts, we have all our gold.

    To most people, it is not at all appealing to start on a new server and not only restart their whole gaming history with no heirlooms, no gold, no alts to make bags or glyphs or gear but also have to reinvest all that time they spent leveling and gearing their character (and any alts they may also want).

    Can one save the $25 and do it? Sure. Is it an appealing option for people who can't swing the costs? Not at all. Most people would probably rather just quit the game if they couldn't afford a transfer, or else stay on their current server and play unhappily until the game stops being fun and they quit that way.

    Server transfers are popular for a reason.
    And all those items will still be there on that character that earned them. However it comes down to if you want to spend $25 to transfer with your toys or save the money just to raid.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    And leveling now is hard? You can level from 1-90 in 5 days or less. Thats like 2euros, amazing price right?
    Leveling is not hard, it never has been. That would be 5 days played time (for many it will be longer) which for most people would be a month or more actual time and then you have the task of gearing up your character again which depending on RNG can be easily be over a month.

  5. #65
    Brewmaster Hiya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Rift is able to do it for free
    Another reason RIFT is growing at a fast pace.
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  6. #66
    I completely agree with the OP. I recently checked my transaction history, and I realised that a realm transfer + faction change is more expensive than buying an expansion.

    Moving ONE CHARACTER to another realm and faction costs MORE MONEY than an ENTIRE expansion.

    Anyone who says this isn't completely ridiculous moneygrabbing is a shameless fanboy and nothing else.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Let's be fair. This is simply not a realistic alternative for most people.

    Many of us have been playing the games for years. We have a lot invested in our existing characters. Aside from any emotional attachments we have based on history and memories, we have special items, many of which are no longer available, our old tier pieces, our full banks kitted out with bags and goodies. We have investments in professions, we have heirlooms, we have supporting alts, we have all our gold.

    To most people, it is not at all appealing to start on a new server and not only restart their whole gaming history with no heirlooms, no gold, no alts to make bags or glyphs or gear but also have to reinvest all that time they spent leveling and gearing their character (and any alts they may also want).

    Can one save the $25 and do it? Sure. Is it an appealing option for people who can't swing the costs? Not at all. Most people would probably rather just quit the game if they couldn't afford a transfer, or else stay on their current server and play unhappily until the game stops being fun and they quit that way.

    Server transfers are popular for a reason.
    So you are advocation for Blizz to allow everyone free transfer of all characters from that realm simply because some ppl got bored with old server and dont wanna lose time invested in game and characters on that realm? I'v been playing this game for 7 years now and never even considered moving my character to a different server but if i get a option to do it for free perhaps i would do that. Then what would happen, many servers would die and many servers would get over populated, that will only do more harm then good. That is why there is free transfer to low populated server and you can simply move there,

    Most ppl who played this game for years know how to make gold and lvling now days isnt as painful as back in Vanilla days, bags are cheap ( g or less for 16 slot bag ) and you can manage without glyphs while lvl-ing.

    People who played game for years and spent 100s of $ for subs wouldnt mind paying 25$ more for one transfer ( if you wanna move your main ) since many have spent 100s more on pets/mounts and misc stuff....

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 09:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Leveling is not hard, it never has been. That would be 5 days played time (for many it will be longer) which for most people would be a month or more actual time and then you have the task of gearing up your character again which depending on RNG can be easily be over a month.
    many HC players who are for free transfer play this game 12 hours a day or more and many will spent sleepless hours to lvl ( same thing happens ever expansion ). It can, but if you want everything for free then play on pirate server and there you go.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevyvia View Post
    I completely agree with the OP. I recently checked my transaction history, and I realised that a realm transfer + faction change is more expensive than buying an expansion.

    Moving ONE CHARACTER to another realm and faction costs MORE MONEY than an ENTIRE expansion.

    Anyone who says this isn't completely ridiculous moneygrabbing is a shameless fanboy and nothing else.
    And anyone who feels the need to pay for a server xfer then whine about the cost has no clue how to manage their money properly.

  9. #69
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Server transfers are popular for a reason.
    And there is probably a lot of money in there too.

    If saving a few sub, but costing a higher income monthly, then it is not worth it.

    People that quits because they cannot transfer per month (average) = Q
    People that stays even if they cannot afford transfer = irrelevant in this model (since they are not quitting, nothing is lost whether they are happy or not)
    Number server transfer per month for whatever purpose (average) = P

    NOTE: remember 1 account is not limited to 1 server transfer.

    A simple model would be 15Q needs to be greater than 25P to make it worth while, but I think most would underestimate number of people that would use the transfer, and overestimate the number of people that would quit for this particular reason (not saying there are non, but the number might not be as high as you think just because you are one of them).

    Of course the actual model they use for analysis purpose probably be a lot more complicated, such as including how many people pay for SERVERAL transfer, how many people willing to stay even if no free transfer, any other figures that might help, just because you are comparing one single $15/month vs 1 off $25, in this sense sounds like the $25 is not a good idea as 2 months of sub already made that money back. However you need to look at the number collectively, and the collective figures probably showing there isn't as many people quitting over this reason as oppose to number of server transfer application a month, and make it not worth while to cut that cost.

    I have moved character to different realm a few times, not because I hate the server I am in now (I have moved my main from the original server though as progression sucks), but I have friends on different server and I have transfered alts to play with them, and there might be plenty of other people server transfering for whatever reasons, they probably get too money from that service on a monthly basis to lose it.
    Last edited by Grym; 2013-01-18 at 08:08 PM.

  10. #70
    Warchief Azgraal's Avatar
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    We already have a huge number of realm trolls. If they could hop realms to wreak havoc in different realms every now and again for free it would be even worse.
    Disclaimer: The majority of my posts might be dripping in sarcasm. Don't take everything I say literally.




  11. #71
    Stood in the Fire
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    Yes but in Rift you transfer from one empty realm to another.

  12. #72
    I do not agree with the statement that the transfer-cost is *Hurting* the game. But i do agree in terms of it being a bit to expensive. I am one of those people who can not stick to one character/class and over the years i have played on different realms. Mostly playing Paladin's, i have raised over 10 classes above 85 ( not counting the others ) and transferring multiple character to another realm is just to expensive. that *Forces* me to level them all over again. What i dislike more is the methods of payment. I do not have a visa or paypal ( visa required ) I Think lots of more transfer's would be made with more paymentmethods.
    Last edited by Bottlecap123; 2013-01-18 at 08:14 PM.

  13. #73
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    You want to know what's REALLY hurting the game? Well, in my opinion, anyways?

    The fact that you have to buy the base game, AND a useless expansion, AND the current expansion, to actually play it. If they're going to flat out throw content in the trash after each new expansion, they should just freaking roll the cost back into the original game, like they've done with BC and WOTLK. You essentially pay, like, what? $20-30? to advance 5 levels. And I guess to get a lot of content to solo later :/

    Then there's the community, that's absolutely hostile to new people at nearly every facet of the game. Not to mention Blizzard themselves offer very little in the game itself, if anything, to really help a new player know anything about the actual game when you're in it. You can probably quest all your way to 90 by using two spells now, and almost any advanced feature (and by ADVANCED, I meant, like, reforging, ENCHANTS, GEMS), are not explained AT ALL in the game. Not to mention how the community is incredibly hostile to everyone who hasn't done something yet, and wants to gate them out of as much content as possible.

    The inability to get in as much new people as it needs, will eventually be what keeps WoW from ever growing again, and will eventually topple it down.

  14. #74
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Isn't that like, most other MMO RPGs are?

    I only played a couple so I cannot say for ALL, but LOTRO, FFXI, FFXIV, does not really take you through all the BASIC feature, let alone advance features. FFXI you even need to find where you need to rest your character by yourself, how the AH works and where it is (no guards to tell you), WoW is already VERY new user friendly compare to the other MMO (unless they are new MMO in that case everyone is new), if you think WoW is hostile towards new players, you need to try a few other non new MMOs out there.

  15. #75
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    So you are advocation for Blizz to allow everyone free transfer of all characters from that realm simply because some ppl got bored with old server and dont wanna lose time invested in game and characters on that realm?
    If we're going to have a discussion on the topic, it might be better to respond to the statements I actually made and not what you're assuming my opinion is.

    All I said was that telling people to reroll because they can't or won't pay the $25 is not a realistic option since most players don't have any desire to do that, with good reason. It requires a lot of time investment, and it means you have to give up a lot.

    I can feel for a player who is on a dead realm where they don't know anyone anymore and desperately wants to join their friend's guild on another server, but can't afford the transfer money (especially if it also requires a faction change) but would rather quit the game then have to start all over from scratch.

    I also think it would be financially wise for Blizzard to evaluate if they would make more money long term by retaining subscriptions of those kinds of players at the loss of some server transfer costs then it would to remain firm on the fees and risk losing those players entirely. I'm not entirely convinced that they wouldn't make money by a cost reduction or package deal for multiple characters in an effort to increase subscriber happiness and therefore longevity.
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  16. #76
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xindykawai View Post
    sure its expensive but think about it, people will be even more careless about their behaviours if they could just transfer for free... easy exit for these gbank ninja and all

    i would say the first chagne is free then you have to pay
    Ya Im with you here. We dont need to add any more to the power of anonymity. The Rift community is not like the WoW community, if it was the same size it would also be a big issue for them. But maybe a once per year, say your anniversary date for free would be cool.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    If we're going to have a discussion on the topic, it might be better to respond to the statements I actually made and not what you're assuming my opinion is.

    All I said was that telling people to reroll because they can't or won't pay the $25 is not a realistic option since most players don't have any desire to do that, with good reason. It requires a lot of time investment, and it means you have to give up a lot.

    I can feel for a player who is on a dead realm where they don't know anyone anymore and desperately wants to join their friend's guild on another server, but can't afford the transfer money (especially if it also requires a faction change) but would rather quit the game then have to start all over from scratch.

    I also think it would be financially wise for Blizzard to evaluate if they would make more money long term by retaining subscriptions of those kinds of players at the loss of some server transfer costs then it would to remain firm on the fees and risk losing those players entirely. I'm not entirely convinced that they wouldn't make money by a cost reduction or package deal for multiple characters in an effort to increase subscriber happiness and therefore longevity.
    I assumed that you want free transfer after saying how much time you spent on one character. If that is the case then sorry, but you are also assuming that ppl that spent years on one realm and on one character are not willing to pay for transfer.

    Servers dont die suddenly, its a process that takes months or years and it has signs of dieing, so anyone can avoid that.

    Blizzard is a company that earns millions/year and has expert for those stuff. They can even reduce price for pixel mounts but the price is "high" and 1000s stil pay for them, some wont pay for mount even if it cost 5x less, same is with transfer. Also keep in mind that free or inexpensive transfers could lead to even bigger issues, such as getting a "free" name change and Blizz could lose money on that.

  18. #78
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    i dont mind paying for transfers, its a business after all, but they are charging so much more than anyother game, GW2, rift ect its free. i would pay £5 to transfer my character, by £25 is way too much. the sub is about £9 a month, so nearly paying 3months worth of sub just to transfer.
    *cough* 'scuse me barging in but just to let you know that paid transfers are coming to GW2 at the end of this month.

    The fees will be based on the population of the target server,
    $22 for High Pop
    $12 for Medium Pop
    $8 for Low Pop (but there are no low pops so eh)

    This fee includes ALL of your characters (since your entire account is tied to a single server due to WvW)

    It's been free so far since they didn't have the Guesting feature enabled. They do a fabulous job at managing server pops by placing a cap on servers (FULL) and allowing other servers to backfill as more and more people join the game. They've had to increase that cap many times since launch, around every two weeks or so.

    But I totally get what you're saying OP. I was a high end raider and before I quit WoW last year I paid for server transfers as guilds crumbled. Once I even bought a guild and transfered it too so I could bring my gold with me. That plus my toons was over $150.

    My last WoW server ended up dying as well, I leveled a toon and there wasn't even enough mats on the AH to level a proff. Just wasn't worth it anymore to pay more fees with how badly they manage their servers.
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  19. #79
    I don't mind to pay for faction or server transfer. But i never used one because i have a server full of alts with 90 and 85. Having all professions, a buttload of money and the ease of helping a friend with another toon keeps me from using this. I don't want to buy useless stuff from one ah and try to sell it on the new server so i can transfer more than 60k. I do not want to be reliant on trade or ah for profession items. So one character would never be enough. I would use it if my raidgroup would dissolve, but i would still not like it. Heck i even contemplated it for one rarely used alt to make room for a new one on the old realm but decided against it because he would have zero support from other toons on the new server. Even if he is seldom played.

    I would not mind to pay 25 bucks for one character, but give me a discount for 2 or 3 characters at least and add an option for server+faction change.

  20. #80
    its too expensive when you have alot of alts. maybe a entire server move service

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