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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by xeek1337 View Post
    raid gear has an advantage because you will get more gems and also the 500 stat gem in a sha touched weapon that can't get scaled down
    I don't think you even read the thread. The sha touched gem does NOT work in challenge modes. It's been tested and verified.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mew View Post
    Higher itemlevel items are usually always better. Downscaling isn't perfect:

    Here's an actual example:

    Can you try putting the same gems in the gear? A mate of mine is saying its because of the spirit gems.

  3. #43
    I think it either comes from the different gems or because of the hit/exp algorithm.
    First, the game downgrade ilvl of each item to 463.
    Then, it reduces the stats of items to compensate for the hit/exp points that haven't bee removed.
    Equipping the same weapons (same ilvl), sometimes each of them end up with different stats because of the second part of the algorithm.

    I think the thing should be to add every secondary stat points (not sure of how spirit works) with different gears and make sure that the sum of secondary stat points on the whole gear is the same.
    I'm pretty convinced it's the case.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Can you try putting the same gems in the gear? A mate of mine is saying its because of the spirit gems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    I think it either comes from the different gems or because of the hit/exp algorithm.
    First, the game downgrade ilvl of each item to 463.
    Then, it reduces the stats of items to compensate for the hit/exp points that haven't bee removed.
    Equipping the same weapons (same ilvl), sometimes each of them end up with different stats because of the second part of the algorithm.

    I think the thing should be to add every secondary stat points (not sure of how spirit works) with different gears and make sure that the sum of secondary stat points on the whole gear is the same.
    I'm pretty convinced it's the case.
    Both of you are wrong. It is not the gems. Each individual item gets downscaled in it's own way, and it seems like higher ilvl items get to keep more stats in their budget. Had some free time on my hands so here's some more examples with what I had availible:














    In conclusion: Itemlevel matters a great deal in challenge modes. Higher is usually (always?) better given same itemization.
    Last edited by Mew; 2013-01-28 at 01:23 AM.

  5. #45
    Gems and set bonuses are not normalized, so there is an advantage in raid gear. Not enormous though id say.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Akiie View Post
    I'm curious what you think any of that stuff you just linked proved.

    Walk into a challenge mode with a legendary gem equipped, change it for a 463 item, watch your intellect change.
    OH WAIT. It won't, because legendary gems are disabled in Challenge modes.

    Also, your gloves are 458 on one, aka, doesn't scale up to 463. Giving you your int difference.

    For what it's worth, no clue if the prismatic socket on sha touched weapons is disabled, but the 500 int one is.
    I somehow missed your reply. "Walk into a challenge mode with a legendary gem equipped, change it for a 463 item, watch your intellect change." Yes because we all have an extra weapon laying arround to test stuff in challenge modes...

    My gloves are not 458 and havent been for months the armory did not show the upgraded ilvls at the time (it seems like it does now) but it did show 1/1 upgrade hence it is higher than ilvl 463. The disparity in intellect have been proven by Mew now so my math was not wrong.

    Prismatic sockets does count as far as I know because it is just like a belt buckle, it doesnt add a special gem like the sha gem.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Mew View Post
    Both of you are wrong. It is not the gems. Each individual item gets downscaled in it's own way, and it seems like higher ilvl items get to keep more stats in their budget. Had some free time on my hands so here's some more examples with what I had availible:

    You didn't read my message, did you?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 03:25 AM ----------

    Your examples are stupid because each time you change one piece of your gear, your whole gear is affected but you just look at one piece.

    So, again, your ilvl doesn't matter at all, you will still have exactly the same stat budget on your whole gear.
    I don't know, look at the stats on your weapon, change your helmet and you'll see the stats on your weapon will change.
    Last edited by Senen; 2013-01-28 at 03:27 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    You didn't read my message, did you?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 03:25 AM ----------

    Your examples are stupid because each time you change one piece of your gear, your whole gear is affected but you just look at one piece.

    So, again, your ilvl doesn't matter at all, you will still have exactly the same stat budget on your whole gear.
    I don't know, look at the stats on your weapon, change your helmet and you'll see the stats on your weapon will change.
    That still wouldn't explain why intellect is higher on the pieces since intellect should be completely untouched. This seems like a pretty major bug to me since the scaling isn't doing what it's supposed to.

  9. #49
    High Overlord joruu's Avatar
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    Pretty much what Mew says. it isnt perfect.

    The biggest benefit would be the all the extra gems. 2 extra gems from legs as and example really skews the stats when comparing blue to epic.

  10. #50
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    I'll chime in with everyone else and say not perfect. The differences are small enough and the sort of damage tossed around high enough that it probably doesn't much matter. Good play will pretty much always trump the small differences in how itemization works out.

    The exception to this as near as I can tell is trinkets, which can make a difference. But not enough to get over not playing optimally.
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  11. #51
    Indeed the maths behind scaling are not perfect. There is a formula for items that are not equipped which can be found on the internet if you search for it. But equipping the gear seems to change some stats. I would imagine that there are soft caps for challenge modes that cannot be bypassed for each class. So when you reach that soft cap your secondary stats are altered.
    On the other hand I have to confirm that the most gems the better but I do not agree for no-gemed higher level gear. In other words. 522 trinket will take a 49% reduction in stats in challenge modes. This along with the low proc make them a bad choice.
    I would give you a whole site with information on challenge modes but advertising is not allowed here.

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