1. #1
    Blademaster MegaAverageGamers's Avatar
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    why are DK's so squishy ?

    Hi all just a quick question or debate.

    I can't understand why Dk's are so squishy I mean they have plate, IBF AMS,AMZ strangulate, mindfreeze, deathgrip heals ( or heal not amazing heal but still a heal )

    Sorry if I sound like a Noob, I pretty much am tbh on dk anyhow but with all those tools at our disposal how are we glass cannons ?

    Hope some people can help me understand I'm not trying to rant or troll or anything I just can't figure out why they go pop

    Thanks for any info you can provide
    Wikidsik

  2. #2
    Banned JhanZ's Avatar
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    The reason is that DKs do not have a lot of mobility or damage reduction (without going Bpres), they are really perfect tunnel targets and are almost always forced to stay in Blood Presence, severely reducing their damage done (Where as Warriors can still dish out godly damage in Defensive Stance).

    Figured I'd drop in and type out the changes I'd like to see in PvP:

    - Buff IBF to 30% baseline
    - Give DKs a disarm on a 1 minute cooldown
    - Remove blood rune from Strangulate

  3. #3
    DK vs casters isnt squishy
    DK vs melee and hunters is paper
    Thing is that vs magic damage Dk have good def CD but agenst phisical we have only 20% icebound on 3 min CD and blood presence witch cost lot of Damage what is to be honest crapest deff agenst phisical among all melee dps

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    We have no passives for damage reduction and our active mitigation (physical or magical) is on CD and can't be kept up.

    Though I don't get the first comment, saying we have to be in BP. I'm never in BP in battlegrounds or arena...that'd be terrible for damage done to the point where you might as well not bother.



  5. #5
    Some kind of stun beside Asphyxiate (which we can't really take) and pet stun would be great. Maybe Asphyxiate baseline and another talent in its place.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashevyn View Post
    Some kind of stun beside Asphyxiate (which we can't really take) and pet stun would be great. Maybe Asphyxiate baseline and another talent in its place.
    We have pet stuns. Gnaw and Leap, which are improved in DT.



  7. #7
    Terrible defences and no cc. Chains of ice kiting melee only delays your death not really help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  8. #8
    Provided rogues / monks aren't super retard strong, dks could be very viable in 5.2.

    Could see unholyplay as a t1 comp.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    We have pet stuns. Gnaw and Leap, which are improved in DT.
    Yeah but frost would like some more on demand too.

  10. #10
    Because we can't sit in our tank stance all game due to the crazy damage loss from frost strike costing a million RP unless ur in frost presence

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubuntu View Post
    blood presence witch cost lot of Damage what is to be honest crapest deff agenst phisical among all melee dps

    NO NO NO, GC says it's good so it's good you know.....



    In my opinion, they should boost out pet hp a bit, as unholy you totally need your pet, and it's a 2 shot kill at the moment, having to wait 2 minutes jumping around to summon it again, that's plain wrong.
    Frost has nothing, but I couldn't care less about frost, unholy would be THE pvp spec if it wasn't because of the pet issue.

  12. #12
    Blademaster MegaAverageGamers's Avatar
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    So what your all saying is that we are kinda the opposite of monks I mean from what ive seenmonks are kind of anti melee where as dk are anti caster cool I get that so do you guys think the answer to this problem is lower cooldowns on our def skills or maybe a skill that keeps some of your damage output if you turtle up ? I dunno I'm fairly new to do and PvP or maybe bone shield baseline for everyspec ? That would deffinatly help wouldn't it ?

    Thanks for the replys
    Wikidsik

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaAverageGamers View Post
    So what your all saying is that we are kinda the opposite of monks I mean from what ive seenmonks are kind of anti melee where as dk are anti caster cool I get that so do you guys think the answer to this problem is lower cooldowns on our def skills or maybe a skill that keeps some of your damage output if you turtle up ? I dunno I'm fairly new to do and PvP or maybe bone shield baseline for everyspec ? That would deffinatly help wouldn't it ?

    Thanks for the replys
    Wikidsik
    Sounds nice as long as it's not dispellable

  14. #14
    Brewmaster Alanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashevyn View Post
    Yeah but frost would like some more on demand too.
    In trade of damage then yes.. u have any clue how much DK can burst lol..

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Appel View Post
    In trade of damage then yes.. u have any clue how much DK can burst lol..
    U have any clue how fast DK dies lol..?

    We are far from being great in pvp, and yes I would trade a little burst for more survivability, but look art Warriors, even in 5.2. they have way more survivability than DKs and their burst is insane.I don't want to be OP, but I also don't want to feel like a clothy.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    WTB removed energy cost on Gnaw and Leap, and off GCD. Also WTB a lil better defensives on lower CD.

  17. #17
    What we lack in SOLIDITY we make up in TECHNIQUE.

    The basic idea of which is, "I can't take the heat, but I can always bounce back"

    Our self heals are great - Death Strike, Ghoul + Death Pact, Lichbourne + Death Coil, Death Siphon, Conversion

    In order to heal, we need runes and runic power.

    RUNES: Chains of Ice + Unholy Pres + Death's Advance = run away to buy time to recharge runes or pop Ghoul-Sac, or Remorseless Winter to buy time
    RP: Horn of Winter + Death Strike spam --> use either with Lich-Coil or Conversion

    You have magic:
    Egg and Zone to block
    Mind Freeze, Strangulate/Asphyxiate, Grasp, Death Grip, Winter to interrupt

    You hit hard:
    IBF to soak
    Chains of Ice + Unholy Pres + Death's Advance to run and throw dots
    Winter to stun

    TL;DR - our kit allows us to do most of everything EXCEPT sit there and block with our face.

    Unless you go Blood Spec, in which case, face-block everything.

  18. #18
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashevyn View Post
    Yeah but frost would like some more on demand too.
    Frost gets insane burst. Unholy is more of a magic-dealing, slow killing/stunning spec. You burst stuff down before it can hurt you.

    I think it's a fair trade-off, and this is coming from someone who has played frost in arenas and BG's.



  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaAverageGamers View Post
    So what your all saying is that we are kinda the opposite of monks I mean from what ive seenmonks are kind of anti melee where as dk are anti caster cool I get that so do you guys think the answer to this problem is lower cooldowns on our def skills or maybe a skill that keeps some of your damage output if you turtle up ? I dunno I'm fairly new to do and PvP or maybe bone shield baseline for everyspec ? That would deffinatly help wouldn't it ?

    Thanks for the replys
    Wikidsik
    This is indeed my experience. Only ranged I'm not 90% certain I'll beat 1v1 is shadow priests. Melee however... Blood pres is pretty much required against them, try to get some burst in and then death strike spam and pray you make it.

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