View Poll Results: Should there be HC-RP servers?

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  • Yes, bring them on.

    11 30.56%
  • No, I'd rather take the QQ.

    24 66.67%
  • Sort of, but here's how...

    1 2.78%
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  1. #1

    New Server Types - Solution to flying, LFD, teleport quarrels.

    Hardcore Roleplaying Servers

    Flying mounts, Dungeon Tools, an abundance of portals and teleport spells, and so on create two problems.

    Problem 1: A lot of people are unhappy about the state of the game. Arguments include the following:
    • No people anywhere any more, the world feels dead.
    • Flying and teleporting everywhere takes away the feeling of being present in a living, breathing world.
    • Dragon shit on the mail boxes!

    Problem 2: In hearing these complaints, even more people get frustrated by the amount of QQ on the forums. Arguments include the following:
    • Don't take my flying mounts away!
    • I don't have the time to walk through all of Azeroth just to get anywhere.
    • No one is forcing you to fly - flying makes my game better and more convenient.

    I propose this can all be solved by including more server types in the game.

    The current realm types, as found on Wowwiki:

    • PvE (a.k.a. Normal) - Player vs. Environment.
    • PvP - Player vs. Player. Automatic PvP flagging while in contested zones with 5 min. expiration timer when leaving those zones.
    • RP - Roleplaying version of a PvE realm. Additional behavior and naming rules apply.
    • RP-PvP - Roleplaying version of a PvP realm. Additional behavior and naming rules apply.

    I suggest these server types:

    • HC-RP-PvE - Hardcore version of a RP-PvE realm, where fast transportation is kept at a minimum and 'Looking For'-tools are unavailable.
    • HC-RP-PvP - Hardcore version of a RP-PvP realm, where fast transportation is kept at a minimum and 'Looking For'-tools are unavailable.


    Thanks, discuss!
    Last edited by Mojo Risin; 2013-01-21 at 01:00 AM.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  2. #2
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    While I like these ideas, the problem we face, and have always faced is that the amount of people who truly would want this is so small Blizzard isn't willing to deal with the costs for nothing in return.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    While I like these ideas, the problem we face, and have always faced is that the amount of people who truly would want this is so small Blizzard isn't willing to deal with the costs for nothing in return.
    Cheers.

    I disagree, however. A recent poll on this forum showed that roughly 20-25% of players wanted those convenience features out of the game, while others yet never wanted them implemented in the first place. Arguably, these people could be said to represent around 3 million people currently playing World of Warcraft. I'd say that's worth taking into consideration for Blizzard.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
    Author of: World Enhancement Patch 1.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Cheers.

    I disagree, however. A recent poll on this forum showed that roughly 20-25% of players wanted those convenience features out of the game, while others yet never wanted them implemented in the first place. Arguably, these people could be said to represent around 3 million people currently playing World of Warcraft. I'd say that's worth taking into consideration for Blizzard.
    3 million players who either don't like or never wanted those features.... but are they 3 million players willing to unsub if the features stay in the game?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Cheers.

    I disagree, however. A recent poll on this forum showed that roughly 20-25% of players wanted those convenience features out of the game, while others yet never wanted them implemented in the first place. Arguably, these people could be said to represent around 3 million people currently playing World of Warcraft. I'd say that's worth taking into consideration for Blizzard.
    First off, there is no real way you can equate the 20-25% spread on that Poll to be representative of the ENTIRE playerbase demographic of WoW to come up with a flat 3 million player number, since only a very small fraction of the WoW community would even have looked at it.

    That being said, the problem with this is that out of those roughly 20-25% of people who took the poll and said they want it (which is probably not even a remotely balanced sample demographic), only about maybe 5% of THOSE people actually want it. The other 15-20% just think they want it, and after trying it for a week or so, would quickly realise exactly how much it sucks, how much their rose tinted nostalgia glasses were coloring things, and move right back to a normal server.

    Which again, leads right back to Darsithis's comment. Blizzard is not likely to go through the effort of makeing 2 special new server types that in all probability would barely attract enough long term players to fill a single server of each (let alone consider faction population balance in that factor).
    Last edited by Surfd; 2013-01-21 at 01:14 AM.

  6. #6
    I think your just using RP servers as an excuse to do old WoW PVE PVP realms. Not once you explained why rpers have issues with any of those features. This seems to be another rant thread.

    Edit: A hardcore RP realm would be stricter rules to enforce rp. Like naming policy and in character and out character chat.


    edit 2: In fact spells like Will travel was loved by the rp realm that I was on. And how the hell does Looking for tools affect roleplay. Also there are portals in lore.
    Last edited by eillas; 2013-01-21 at 01:20 AM.
    '"Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you."
    - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Cheers.

    I disagree, however. A recent poll on this forum showed that roughly 20-25% of players wanted those convenience features out of the game, while others yet never wanted them implemented in the first place. Arguably, these people could be said to represent around 3 million people currently playing World of Warcraft. I'd say that's worth taking into consideration for Blizzard.
    You're way over-inflating the numbers based on a very small sample from a site that carries a great deal of posters that don't even play anymore. You don't restrict people voting by those with valid subs, so you can't count them in it.

    Since you're looking at an RP server, first, you will only have a subset of the people that play on those servers, and there are few enough of that kind of server to begin with, small enough I can't imagine Blizzard would want to further divide that population up. Those of us on PvP or PvE (I'm on RP, by the way) servers that aren't RP wouldn't switch just for the added benefit of "being able to walk everywhere".

    Quote Originally Posted by eillas View Post
    I think your just using RP servers as an excuse to do old WoW PVE PVP realms. Not once you explained why rpers have issues with any of those features. This seems to be another rant thread.

    Edit: A hardcore RP realm would be stricter rules to enforce rp. Like naming policy and in character and out character chat.
    Because Role-Players prefer immersion. That's one reason to play on an RP server

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    You're way over-inflating the numbers based on a very small sample from a site that carries a great deal of posters that don't even play anymore. You don't restrict people voting by those with valid subs, so you can't count them in it.

    Since you're looking at an RP server, first, you will only have a subset of the people that play on those servers, and there are few enough of that kind of server to begin with, small enough I can't imagine Blizzard would want to further divide that population up. Those of us on PvP or PvE (I'm on RP, by the way) servers that aren't RP wouldn't switch just for the added benefit of "being able to walk everywhere".



    Because Role-Players prefer immersion. That's one reason to play on an RP server
    I am on a major RP realm, one of two largest. Not once did I ever hear complaints that those things break immersion from anyone.
    '"Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you."
    - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Cheers.

    I disagree, however. A recent poll on this forum showed that roughly 20-25% of players wanted those convenience features out of the game, while others yet never wanted them implemented in the first place. Arguably, these people could be said to represent around 3 million people currently playing World of Warcraft. I'd say that's worth taking into consideration for Blizzard.
    20% of mmo champion's forum users probably equals 0.000005% of the playerbase. the vast majority of the players don't even know what a forum is.

    I wouldn't mind these realms existing, but I'd stay the hell out of them. besides, they'd probably be dead realms
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  10. #10
    Just saying this seems more like a cleverly disguised I want flying, LFR, and LFD gone thread.
    '"Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you."
    - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  11. #11
    Another day, another thread creator stating they know how to "fix" the flying problem.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Vizier View Post
    3 million players who either don't like or never wanted those features.... but are they 3 million players willing to unsub if the features stay in the game?
    Well, probably not. But is that a reason not to make the game better for them? I doubt everyone would unsub if we weren't given pet battles, for instance. Creating a few servers that simply remove a couple of features and include a few mechanics to reduce the use of flying mounts is hardly a lot of work. Obviously, a portion of the player base wants to remove some of the new, convenient features in favour of getting some of the 'old feeling' back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    First off, there is no real way you can equate the 20-25% spread on that Poll to be representative of the ENTIRE playerbase demographic of WoW to come up with a flat 3 million player number, since only a very small fraction of the WoW community would even have looked at it.

    That being said, the problem with this is that out of those roughly 20-25% of people who took the poll and said they want it (which is probably not even a remotely balanced sample demographic), only about maybe 5% of THOSE people actually want it. The other 15-20% just think they want it, and after trying it for a week or so, would quickly realise exactly how much it sucks, how much their rose tinted nostalgia glasses were coloring things, and move right back to a normal server.

    Which again, leads right back to Darsithis's comment. Blizzard is not likely to go through the effort of makeing 2 special new server types that in all probability would barely attract enough long term players to fill a single server of each (let alone consider faction population balance in that factor).
    First of all, I said arguably.
    Second, your way of twisting the sample poll figures is just out of hand. Sure, some voters probably voted 'wrong' or changed their minds later on, or whatever. But if you're gonna say none of the voters actually meant that they wanted flying gone, then I could just as well claim the opposite, that everyone wanted flying gone.

    Most roleplaying servers struggle to find players and they are still kept alive. I very much doubt that out of the entire playerbase, there wouldn't be enough people to fill one or two HC-RP servers.

    Quote Originally Posted by eillas View Post
    I think your just using RP servers as an excuse to do old WoW PVE PVP realms. Not once you explained why rpers have issues with any of those features. This seems to be another rant thread.

    Edit: A hardcore RP realm would be stricter rules to enforce rp. Like naming policy and in character and out character chat.


    edit 2: In fact spells like Will travel was loved by the rp realm that I was on. And how the hell does Looking for tools affect roleplay. Also there are portals in lore.
    I explained it in my OP, but changed the post and made it shorter. Sorry for any confusion.
    Basically my argument is that I don't mind if these servers are called only 'HC servers', without the 'RP'.
    But then you'd have the issue of every server type demanding its own HC option, to suit every need.
    And furthermore, you'd have the issue that a roleplayer would have to choose between normal RP servers that restrict naming conventions, and HC servers that restrict what can arguably be called immersion-breaking devices like flying. Because roleplayers are probably inclined to go all the way and support the removal of fast travel and dungeon tools than, say, strict PvPers, I figured it would make most sense to combine roleplay servers with HC servers on a layer on top of normal roleplay servers.

    But yes, a lot of non-roleplayers would probably also want it, so perhaps it should be called something else.

    I'm rambling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    You're way over-inflating the numbers based on a very small sample from a site that carries a great deal of posters that don't even play anymore. You don't restrict people voting by those with valid subs, so you can't count them in it.

    Since you're looking at an RP server, first, you will only have a subset of the people that play on those servers, and there are few enough of that kind of server to begin with, small enough I can't imagine Blizzard would want to further divide that population up. Those of us on PvP or PvE (I'm on RP, by the way) servers that aren't RP wouldn't switch just for the added benefit of "being able to walk everywhere".



    Because Role-Players prefer immersion. That's one reason to play on an RP server
    Like I said before, the same argument can be used the other way around. A great deal of voters in that poll probably voted 'No', despite never wanting flying in the first place. What we have are the numbers, and that's all we can go by. Plus, there are quite a large amount of posts discussing flying nowadays. Sure, they mostly get flamed by people who love flying, but the fact that they appear at all says something.

    And like I told the fellow above; perhaps HC is something which should be available for all server types, and not just RP.

    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    20% of mmo champion's forum users probably equals 0.000005% of the playerbase. the vast majority of the players don't even know what a forum is.

    I wouldn't mind these realms existing, but I'd stay the hell out of them. besides, they'd probably be dead realms
    Again, like I've said before; these arguments can be used the other way around as well. Do you never trust sample polls before an election? They usually turn out to be right. While not everyone on MMO-Champ is an active player, and while this community might not accurately represent all WoW players, it's still a valid figure. And what does it matter if people stopped playing, btw? If anything, the reason they stopped could be an indication that something is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by eillas View Post
    Just saying this seems more like a cleverly disguised I want flying, LFR, and LFD gone thread.
    Huh? How is it disguised? I specifically say that there are two sides to the argument, and that this could solve both problems.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 01:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    Another day, another thread creator stating they know how to "fix" the flying problem.

    Another constructive thread, another poster being negative for no apparent reason.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  13. #13
    LFD and LFR are useful on rp servers:

    Most RP guilds focus on building epic storylines for their guildies. They do have raid teams, but focus more so on storytelling aspect.

    We use LFD and LFR as it's our main source of seeing boss fights, and were not going to leave guild just to raid sha of fear.

    BGs on rp realms: (In case this was part was in the So on.)
    there is a major differance between RP PVP and W PVP
    RP PVP has a story reason.

    And we do go into the world to pvp. I was in a RP PV battle that lasted an hour with over 300 lvl 85s (back in cata)

    Telelport summoning, and Have group will travel:

    You have no idea how much rpers loved Have group and summoning. We really used it to help get people to events. These are things major rpers use to assist. In no way they were a problem to our immersion.

    Flying:

    Ever heard of Wildhammer dwarves? Flying in WoW lore is justified.


    What we don't need is: CRZ That has been a problem for large scale RP PVP battles.
    '"Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you."
    - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by eillas View Post
    LFD and LFR are useful on rp servers:

    Most RP guilds focus on building epic storylines for their guildies. They do have raid teams, but focus more so on storytelling aspect.

    We use LFD and LFR as it's our main source of seeing boss fights, and were not going to leave guild just to raid sha of fear.

    BGs on rp realms: (In case this was part was in the So on.)
    there is a major differance between RP PVP and W PVP
    RP PVP has a story reason.

    And we do go into the world to pvp. I was in a RP PV battle that lasted an hour with over 300 lvl 85s (back in cata)

    Telelport summoning, and Have group will travel:

    You have no idea how much rpers loved Have group and summoning. We really used it to help get people to events. These are things major rpers use to assist. In no way they were a problem to our immersion.

    Flying:

    Ever heard of Wildhammer dwarves? Flying in WoW lore is justified.


    What we don't need is: CRZ That has been a problem for large scale RP PVP battles.


    I respect your point, but this is meant to be a new server type that doesn't change anything for people who prefer exactly what you just described. I believe there are lots of people out there who wants flying (and so on) gone, or at least restricted.

    Never said flying isn't justified, either. But you don't read any novels or watch any cinematics with 90% of the people flying most of the time, do you?
    Flying used to be a good and sensible thing. A tamed and trained gryphon or wyvern could fly you from one of their masters to another, between bases and camps. What we have now is completely ridiculous and lore-breaking, with everyone and his grandmother flying instead of walking, running, or riding.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Kharli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Hardcore Roleplaying Servers

    Flying mounts, Dungeon Tools, an abundance of portals and teleport spells, and so on create two problems.

    Problem 1: A lot of people are unhappy about the state of the game. Arguments include the following:
    • No people anywhere any more, the world feels dead.
    • Flying and teleporting everywhere takes away the feeling of being present in a living, breathing world.
    • Dragon shit on the mail boxes!

    Problem 2: In hearing these complaints, even more people get frustrated by the amount of QQ on the forums. Arguments include the following:
    • Don't take my flying mounts away!
    • I don't have the time to walk through all of Azeroth just to get anywhere.
    • No one is forcing you to fly - flying makes my game better and more convenient.

    I propose this can all be solved by including more server types in the game.

    The current realm types, as found on Wowwiki:

    • PvE (a.k.a. Normal) - Player vs. Environment.
    • PvP - Player vs. Player. Automatic PvP flagging while in contested zones with 5 min. expiration timer when leaving those zones.
    • RP - Roleplaying version of a PvE realm. Additional behavior and naming rules apply.
    • RP-PvP - Roleplaying version of a PvP realm. Additional behavior and naming rules apply.

    I suggest these server types:

    • HC-RP-PvE - Hardcore version of a RP-PvE realm, where fast transportation is kept at a minimum and 'Looking For'-tools are unavailable.
    • HC-RP-PvP - Hardcore version of a RP-PvP realm, where fast transportation is kept at a minimum and 'Looking For'-tools are unavailable.


    Thanks, discuss!
    RIGHT.
    roleplayers(majority) don't give two shits about most pve stuff, you know why? because it's alot easier to make events etc.
    and Looking for tools? really? I DOUBT ANYONE want that gone, even the people who want it gone.. see how much Shit SW:TOR got for it? even guild wars got shit for it.

    number two I got a problem with your post..from a roleplayers standpoint at least, your using WOwiki which is horribley badly moderated, because majority of the team that were working there went to wowpedia.

    I know for a fact, alot of people on Argent Dawn EU got angry as hell on blizzard for removing have group will travel, as it actully helped ous to gather up for a Major Event.
    want to know why they removed it? so people were "forced" to go to the instance, oh wait..summoning stones, two people show up everyone else is in Stormwind/Org/captial city/world, yeh..

    and if I want to see any hard core relam? make ONE Hard-core PvP realm with.
    1. No flying.
    2. no outland.
    3. no mage portals (HA!)
    4.maximum Mount speed 60%
    5. no Pandaria
    6. no Wrath of the Lichking.
    7. no arenas
    8. no LFR/LFD
    9. No raids what so ever(cause it's a pvp realm duhh)
    10. no battle-grounds because the players wants world pvp.
    /rant over

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Cheers.

    I disagree, however. A recent poll on this forum showed that roughly 20-25% of players wanted those convenience features out of the game, while others yet never wanted them implemented in the first place. Arguably, these people could be said to represent around 3 million people currently playing World of Warcraft. I'd say that's worth taking into consideration for Blizzard.
    20-25% of people on this forum represent a few thousand WoW players, not 3 million. You can't just assume that 3 million players hate the convenience features.

  17. #17
    I think you overestimate the amount of players who would be interested in joining this server type. Removing flying mounts AND dungeon/raid finder is a bit much.

    I sincerely doubt there'd be enough interested for even a flying restricted server to recoup the development and integration time.

    Consider this: Blizzard has a lot of intelligent and creative employees. Someone there has probably already thought of your suggestion, brought it up, looked into it, and decided that it wasn't worth the investment.

  18. #18
    I say post this idea on rp and rp pvp realms like moon guard and Wyrmrest accord. You will see how well rpers react to this idea. (Hint: very poorly.)
    '"Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you."
    - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Another constructive thread, another poster being negative for no apparent reason.
    Negative? Nope just curious what made you think your 'solution' was so special it needed its own thread, instead of it being discussed in one of the countless others that have cropped up and been shot down in the past month.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Again, like I've said before; these arguments can be used the other way around as well. Do you never trust sample polls before an election? They usually turn out to be right. While not everyone on MMO-Champ is an active player, and while this community might not accurately represent all WoW players, it's still a valid figure. And what does it matter if people stopped playing, btw? If anything, the reason they stopped could be an indication that something is wrong.
    the difference is that elections take large samples from random people. this poll will take a small-medium sample from a biased population.

    I remember a poll showed us that about 40% of the forum's users consider themselves on the top 5% of players. also, there was once a consensus that most people had around 35k gold, but blizzard once said that the average joe doesn't have anything close to it. I struggle to stay over 20k.

    you can use forum polls to know which side is the majority on the mmo champion community, but there's a huge difference between the MMO champion community and the WoW community.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

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