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  1. #401
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Considering Blizzard lost 3 million subscribers in a year and still managed to turn record breaking profits, I think investors have plenty of confidence in the company even if there are more losses. Again there is significantly more to ATVI than just Wow.
    As a guy who works directly with stockbrokers, I can assure that absolutely nothing gets overlooked. The degree to which they analyse every little detail is staggering.

    Makes sense too, the amount of money they're investing is ludicrous.
    I am the lucid dream
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  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Let's quote your remark:

    "Given the Asian players play a different amount for the game (much less, and per hour) they shouldn't be count the same as a sub. But Blizzard decided at some point they should count the same. Weird huh? Talking about giving your own statistics less credibility."

    So how is Blizzard supposed to be counting them then, since the "play by the hour" is the default system in communist China? They only account for the dudes being active with these pay to play cards in the last month.
    Simple: by stating the average amount of hours per sub, or the total amount of hours played. Is it really that hard?

    Also your argument of "pay less" can be used for many western countries too: Russia with its 2 dozen servers pays around 9 dollars, South America even less..., as it appears WOW costs a hefty price compared to China wages over there.
    9 dollars and 13 dollars isn't a big difference, and it is a static amount.

    An active subscription is an active subscription as Blizzard defines it, they can't wage everthing on a kind of index scale (like average income per average playing time, per the country's laws etc...).
    Their methodology is flawed.

    With Asian players its a completely different measure. Previously at least they differentiated between the subscriptions, but when Region A (rest of the world) went down and Region B (Asia) went up they decided to merge them. Fishy aye? They could, instead, say we have X million subscribers in Region A (rest of the world) and in Region B (Asia) we have Y amount of playtime. It is that simple, it gives your investors more transparency.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoibert View Post
    Just a brief note,

    CET (Central European Time) = GMT + 1
    Would have though that was pretty self explanatory in my post. Being English I work by GMT as its the standard that world times are set by. Though I know of CET there is no point trying to add confusion to the mix by stating it instead of just GMT+1, especially as I rolled off a short list of a few of the countries in that time bracket for people to understand the geographical referencing.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Why shouldn't they count ?? They are paying a service like the rest of us, It just different cause of there government laws & rules.
    Because A) there are better methodologies to count the success of WoW in Asia. B) By counting the way they do they mix apples with pears.

    5 million apples and 5 million pears is not 10 million apples. Simple as that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 02:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Oogly View Post
    Would have though that was pretty self explanatory in my post. Being English I work by GMT as its the standard that world times are set by. Though I know of CET there is no point trying to add confusion to the mix by stating it instead of just GMT+1, especially as I rolled off a short list of a few of the countries in that time bracket for people to understand the geographical referencing.
    You work by UTC which is the successor of GMT notion which is considered legacy. AFAIK they're interchangeable.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    You obviously don't understand the workings of subscription services. With a new xpac many people will be subscribed for 3 months, some for 6, many are still shackled by annual pass, some level slowly and realize only after several weeks they don't like the new offerings.

    Even with Cata, which was shit from day one, it took months for the losses to manifest and even longer for Blizzard to react. Devs even did the rehashed troll 5-mans, one of the two dumbest patches in the history of this game - next to voice chat.

    This quarter may bring some indications, but the full financial drama or glory of MoP will become obvious three months from now.
    And yet none of that has anything to do with what I said. Check out the previous threads on these forums for each of the past 3-4 quarters. In almost every one there are people (many of which are in this very thread as well) who said it is the next quarter where the real losses will happen.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    BenBos is right, You also gotta take into account money conversion aswell, so that could be the reason for the lower or high cost than the standard 15 dollars in North America.

    Basically like I have said above & many others have said aswell, There paying a service & its counted regardless on how it is payed.
    I agree you need to count Chinese pay-per-use customers as subscribers, because the total subscriber number is an indicator of how many people are out there playing the game. However, that's why Activision also reports total income from subscriptions. A person paying $0.22 a month to log in and kill a few gnolls just isn't worth that much consideration when it comes to trying to please your customers.

    Anyway, my prediction is that Mope has done irreparable damage to the WoW franchise. Beyond that, D3 has completely tanked the company's credibility. The future does not seem particularly rosy for Activision.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    A lot of peolpe quitted over dailies, some quitted over CRZ, some dont like the PVP season and quitted too.

    I expect the number to be around 9.5M.

    I just hope this makes Blizzard open their eyes at how much they failed with their crappy daily system.
    And yet there are many players who like the game as is. Has it ever occurred to you people that different people are allowed to like different things and that just because you personally don't like something doesn't make it bad or broken or "crap"?

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    And yet none of that has anything to do with what I said. Check out the previous threads on these forums for each of the past 3-4 quarters. In almost every one there are people (many of which are in this very thread as well) who said it is the next quarter where the real losses will happen.
    So do you think that next quarter (Q1) is going to perform better than Q4 considering Q4 saw the release of MOP in China, the launch of 5.1 and Christmas and Q1 has what to attract new players?

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    You never played Vanilla or TBC did you ?? There was way more grind than this and people claim that to be the golden age of WoW.

    The grind for Netherwing drake (daily quests) toke time & flying mounts that toke alot of gold or exalted rep for the mount or training (Expert & Artisan).

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Classic_reputation_rewards
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Burning_Crus...tation_rewards

    New players were just spoiled in Wrath & Cataclysm.
    Heartily disagree. I've played since beta and the golden age was clearly during WotLK.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Nicely ignoring the launch of a 10.000.000 copies sold new Blizzard game in that quarter...

    The disucssions about Blizzard never stops with so many ignorant factors really.
    Nicely ignoring that Q2 2012 was only the tip of the iceberg on a genrally failed expansion to make a point.
    I mean the game lost 2,8 million subs in total during Cataclysm.
    And that particular Quarter was only 1,2 of them.
    You wanna blame Diablo's launch for the remaining 1,6 maybe?
    What i said, is that this particular Quarter redefined the number needed to comment "major" loss in subs.
    Before that we have seen 600k drop and 800k drop (both in Cataclysm what a coincidence) and they were considered "major".

    If the subs now drop 600k, some people after the 1,2 millions might even comment "a small drop in subs after all" while many other would say "600k after all, nothing major".
    I didn't even commented why the game lost 1,2 millions that quarter...Just said that 1,2 millions is the new standard for "major".

    Butthurt much?

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    I agree you need to count Chinese pay-per-use customers as subscribers, because the total subscriber number is an indicator of how many people are out there playing the game.
    Yes, but the total number of players isn't very important. If you have SWTOR for example (note these numbers I made up!), and you got 300k paying subs, and 1200k people playing that means you got 900k who play for free. More important than how many are playing for free however is for how much do they buy from the cash shop.

    However, that's why Activision also reports total income from subscriptions. A person paying $0.22 a month to log in and kill a few gnolls just isn't worth that much consideration when it comes to trying to please your customers.
    Wait you mean Blizzard reports this on WoW? Why was I not informed? Am I reading news sites which are just quoting numbers which are actually irrelevant and inaccurate?
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    5 million apples and 5 million pears is not 10 million apples. Simple as that.
    Eh, they are really ALMOST the same. If anything it's 5 million red apples and 5 million green apples. lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Why shouldn't they count ?? They are paying a service like the rest of us, It just different cause of there government laws & rules.



    It been released in all Regions, China didn't get MoP until a week or so after it was released in Us & EU.

    I knew China gets things later, just wasn't sure. Thank you.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Because A) there are better methodologies to count the success of WoW in Asia. B) By counting the way they do they mix apples with pears.

    5 million apples and 5 million pears is not 10 million apples. Simple as that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 02:16 PM ----------

    .

    Actually you are making a mistake: because a subscription is a subscription to WOW, be that cheap (like in South America or RUssia) or expensive (like western EU) compared to the US OR by having different systems in each country (like the PAY too PLAY cards in China).

    Why is it a subscription ? Well you ALL play the same game and with the recently introduced mechanics in BOTH SC2 AND Diablo 3, you actually already PLAY cross server these days in WOW ... too...

    I mean ... I MEET Russians all the time in BG's ... and they pay with a cheaper system already ...
    The same applies for ... the Chinese that play ... on Korean sub models (and might I say with LOTS of Raiding successes)...

    So for a PLAYER's position it is great to know we play cross server now and ALL play the game (just wait till trading and Guild play is integrated) and for the STOCK holders there is the financial REPORT and REVENUE.

    So what's the problem ? Apparently we ALL play with apples, you just want to divide the colors ... when I play with different colors ... on my cross server ALREADY.


  15. #415
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Keep it civil please. I know this subject gets heated every time the conference call rolls around, but let's play nice.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Simple: by stating the average amount of hours per sub, or the total amount of hours played. Is it really that hard?

    9 dollars and 13 dollars isn't a big difference, and it is a static amount.

    Their methodology is flawed.

    With Asian players its a completely different measure. Previously at least they differentiated between the subscriptions, but when Region A (rest of the world) went down and Region B (Asia) went up they decided to merge them. Fishy aye? They could, instead, say we have X million subscribers in Region A (rest of the world) and in Region B (Asia) we have Y amount of playtime. It is that simple, it gives your investors more transparency.
    Willing to bet the per hour folks play more then the monthly sub folks. Asian markets love grindy games and play the crap out of them. You hear more stories about people over there that die from long play sessions with out food or drink than anywhere else.

  17. #417
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    [B]I mean ... I MEET Russians all the time in BG's ... and they pay with a cheaper system already ...
    No they don't.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    I agree you need to count Chinese pay-per-use customers as subscribers, because the total subscriber number is an indicator of how many people are out there playing the game. However, that's why Activision also reports total income from subscriptions. A person paying $0.22 a month to log in and kill a few gnolls just isn't worth that much consideration when it comes to trying to please your customers.

    Anyway, my prediction is that Mope has done irreparable damage to the WoW franchise. Beyond that, D3 has completely tanked the company's credibility. The future does not seem particularly rosy for Activision.

    Besides the bitching on the forums, D3 turned out to be a huge success financially. The recent changes to the game has made it even more enjoyable to play.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    Eh, they are really ALMOST the same. If anything it's 5 million red apples and 5 million green apples. lol
    No, they're not. You painted them like apples, but they're not apples. They pears.

    The people in China, for example, earn far less than us Europeans and Americans. That's a given. They also spend less of gaming, heck normal to not have own computer. So if you have (for example)

    Year X: 10 million subs EU/US.
    Year Y: 5 million subs EU/US, 5 million subs China.

    Then that means in these years you lost 5 million Western subs, and gained 5 million Chinese subs. However these Chinese pay less for their games and that is ALSO a given. What matters is how much exactly?

    On a second thought I wonder where the Chinese servers run and how much the Chinese GMs earn and all that, but still, the profit margins are very much local.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  20. #420
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    By MMORPG standards... absolutely.

    By Stock market investors seeing their profits sink into a pithole - not so much (enter the curse of "growing your business for investors")
    Yeah well..stock market, eh? Apple has record winnings, yet stock falls because they expected even MOAR. BTW..did "profits sink into a pithole". And are they still profits when in a sinkhole? Did Blizzard games make anybody lose money? Why does any of us care? Is anyone a staockholder? Shouldn't we give a flying F... about those bastards, seeing how they and banks manage to destroy billions of (largely imaginary) money?

    I mean..seeing this thread full of people that apparently have so much of a clue about economics, maybe somebody can clear all that up.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

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