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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardeen View Post
    Correction, you don't want dailies as content, and if your in a raiding guild you're probably surrounded by people who share the same opinion as you. However, there are far more players who don't raid then do, though it's getting closer with LFR "raiding" and guess what, they don't want raids as content they want fun engaging and rewarding dailies which Sheildwall hit perfectly. IT's funny while I've kept my main in raiding guilds I've always had alts in casual guilds to hang out with RL friends and people I've met in game and enjoy doing dumb stuff with. Guess which guilds are by far bigger.
    So you're shocked that raiding guilds, which are put together to do content requiring either 10 or 25 people are smaller than casual guilds that invite any and everyone because they don't have structural limits on how many can participate?

    I despise raiding and every bit of development time that goes into it, but that doesn't mean I find dailies "engaging" at all. I am all for having dailies in the game for people who prefer a means of progressing outside group required content, but at the same time, I don't agree with making them a secondary gate for gear bought with currency earned in a variety of content types and certainly think putting bonus rolls for RAIDS on them is just plain stupid.

    You should agree since lesser charms are useless to anyone who doesn't do raiding in any form.

    On topic: i expect them to have lost NA/EU subs and probably gloss it over with their december handout and chinese sub numbers. They won't have a better quarter in Mists so even if they hold the Sept numbers, they won't going forward.

  2. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Why only 2 factions? Did you have EVERY DAILY FACTION MAXED OUT? Go ahead and look at your list. Let me see how many your exalted with. I'll wait right here.
    I have Golden Lotus, Klaxxi, Dominance Offensive (really liked this one), Cloud Serpents, and I think that's it.

    For Cata I just did the factions I needed the Shoulder or Head enchants from.

    I would do Dailies whenever I'd feel like it in Cata AND Mists cuz Im in no rush to get to Exalted.

    If I felt like doing them for some extra gold and something else to do aside from everything else, I'd do them.

    If not, I didn't.

    I didn't feel like I wasn't meeting my maximum potential by not doing them.
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  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    ..Christ man calm down. It's just a friendly debate. No need to rage about dailies. 0_o
    I'm tired of these arguments though. Even the developers have abandoned dailies. Look at that in 5l.2 you get REP IN DUNGEONS and still I have clods telling me that hey man everyone wants dailies. The writing is on the fuckign wall. I'm not saying they should have dailies, by all fucking means go ahead. It's just frustrating to have people tell you your wrong, suck it up accept dailies. It's the same shit that happened in cataclysm to and instead of listening the developers have players to hide behind. It's fucking frustrating, I wanted to like mists honest.

  4. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by papaz View Post
    I predict a small decline. MoP got some good reviews and Blizzard has been fast with patches this time around.

    But there is still going to be a decline. Maybe right below 10 mill.
    I think this is the most honest and common sense reply to this thread.

    Ill bet my house that it hasnt gone up. I mean how many people do u know who have started to play Wow within the past 6months (new subs) and how many do u know who have stopped playing (lost subs)?

    That acid test alone should prove the true situation to the blinkered.

    the only way possible to make Wow subs go up is if the Asian market has expanded. The only press releases from Asia show its been in decline as the Asians go back to their favs of Aion etc. (Aions latest 'big thing' addition has been player housing btw, and thats pulled players back)

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    I have Golden Lotus, Klaxxi, Dominance Offensive (really liked this one), Cloud Serpents, and I think that's it.

    For Cata I just did the factions I needed the Shoulder or Head enchants from.

    I would do Dailies whenever I'd feel like it in Cata AND Mists cuz Im in no rush to get to Exalted.

    If I felt like doing them for some extra gold and something else to do aside from everything else, I'd do them.

    If not, I didn't.

    I didn't feel like I wasn't meeting my maximum potential by not doing them.
    So in cata you only did those two factions? What about going back for those other factions? Like the old school wrath and tbc factions? I mean is the only thing you consider CONTENT stuff that gives you some potential advantage.

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    No Ghostcrawler doesn't need to be fired. Calling for someone to be fired is low. He did go with a fresh start. He started in Wrath and things went up hill. Just because you don't like him and his answers doesn't mean who you quoted is right. Blizzard is far from perfect but they aren't horrible.
    Yeah I'm not calling for him to be fired. I think just a re-thinking of his ideology is in order. I am just hoping if the subscriptions are down, as I believe they will be, that he will start actually listening to the community a bit more.

    Quote Originally Posted by PriestRela View Post
    My prediction:

    Lost 2million

    Reasons:

    -CRZ, dallies caused quits
    - General Polarazation of player base
    - Weak Xpac sales out the gate
    - Worldwide launch (a first) no asian bounce at 1st quarter bounce
    - Yearly passes are up
    - Lack of posts on official/unofficial forums meaning players gave up complaining

    Hell, im just hoping the dividends are up on the stock i own.....
    My theory isn't going to be that high. My estimate is MoP sales will be good. But subscriptions took a significant dip, mostly due to dailies and the stance on CRZ. I been a long time supporter of Blizzard up until recently with some of their decisions. So the only reason I am hoping for a drop in subs, is so that they can reverse gears and return to a state they were before now. I don't want WoW to die, nor do I wish to see anyone fired. But I think a shift in direction is required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    Just a word for all:

    Do not turn this into a CRZ thread.

    While I don't have a problem with someone mentioning it as a possible reason for good or bad results the very last thing I want to see in this thread is all of the complaints and benefits re-litigated again. There are other threads for that where you can yell at one another about it to your heart's content (within the forum rules of course). This isn't one of them.
    Yes sir, no problem.

  7. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    I'm tired of these arguments though. Even the developers have abandoned dailies. Look at that in 5l.2 you get REP IN DUNGEONS and still I have clods telling me that hey man everyone wants dailies. The writing is on the fuckign wall. I'm not saying they should have dailies, by all fucking means go ahead. It's just frustrating to have people tell you your wrong, suck it up accept dailies. It's the same shit that happened in cataclysm to and instead of listening the developers have players to hide behind. It's fucking frustrating, I wanted to like mists honest.
    Then stop arguing it. I've seen you do this dance 100 times over and it's not changing anything.

    You can't move nor talk to a brick wall.

    I have barely done my dailies. I just got to exalted with Golden Lotus.

    I personally just find it's not that big a deal.

    It has no impact on my raiding ability, nor do i REEEEALLLYYYYY need the Valor Gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
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  8. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    Just a word for all:

    Do not turn this into a CRZ thread.

    While I don't have a problem with someone mentioning it as a possible reason for good or bad results the very last thing I want to see in this thread is all of the complaints and benefits re-litigated again. There are other threads for that where you can yell at one another about it to your heart's content (within the forum rules of course). This isn't one of them.
    why would people complain? As a member on a low pop server, CRZ has been the best addition to the game.

  9. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Why only 2 factions? Did you have EVERY DAILY FACTION MAXED OUT? Go ahead and look at your list. Let me see how many your exalted with. I'll wait right here.
    Dailys are for the non pvp and raid players which out number us be alot sir your not forced to do them i'ts a choose.

  10. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    I mean how many people do u know who have started to play Wow within the past 6months (new subs) and how many do u know who have stopped playing (lost subs)?
    - About a dozen or so came back for MoP.

    - All of them.

  11. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Untrue and furthermore if you can't do the dungeons you probably aren't raiding anyway so why do you need the gear? Like I get told by people all the time if I'm not raiding I don't need the fuckign dialy gear. Their was LOTS you could hjave don in cataclysm you just weren't compelled or chose not to. Theirs a list of dailies a mile long you could have done in cataclysm.
    What purpose specific to the dailies was there in Cataclysm? You didn't unlock additional storylines, no epic gear at the end of a quest chain, and the rep gained was also readily available through tabard championing which was considerably faster for tanks/healers than actually doing the dailies.

    As for the "need" of the gear, do Heroic raiders need the gear from the last boss of the tier? Why not remove that altogether? I mean, they kill the boss fine without the gear dropping from him/her/it.
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    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  12. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    So in cata you only did those two factions? What about going back for those other factions? Like the old school wrath and tbc factions? I mean is the only thing you consider CONTENT stuff that gives you some potential advantage.
    I never did those factions because I didn't feel a need to.

    Same thing with Wrath.

    See, here's what you need to understand about me: Most things I just do if I HAVE to, especially in WoW.

    In Wrath (started playing at the end of BC) I didn't get exalted with Sons of Hodir and whoever gave the Head Enchant until I think patch 3.2 or 3.3.

    I didn't really care. I just had fun playing the game. And my guild was a really good one, too.

    As for Cata, yes, i don't did those two factions because I didn't care about the rest.

    With Mists there's so many factions, I actually just do them because it adds to what I have to do.

    To an extent, I LIKE doing Dailies. I just don't like doing them EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

    That's my mentallity.

    I don't feel in the slightest obligated to do any of my dailies any day, nor grind Dungeons back in the day to get to exalted.

    I get there when I get there, and if I want to do the, I do them.
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  13. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Then stop arguing it. I've seen you do this dance 100 times over and it's not changing anything.

    You can't move nor talk to a brick wall.

    I have barely done my dailies. I just got to exalted with Golden Lotus.

    I personally just find it's not that big a deal.

    It has no impact on my raiding ability, nor do i REEEEALLLYYYYY need the Valor Gear.
    But then nothing happens man. If you don't speak up and say SOMETHING then nothing happens. I wasn't even looking to raid this expansion. I had a group of 4 or 5 of us that made up a little sg1 team that ran our guys through dungeons (and we LIKED the harder dungeons but were okay in wrath to) and we had a blast doing it. In mists it just fell apart. The dungeons were done in two fucking days and we had the gear and then we sat around and said now what. It's just shitty man, we had a playstyle that we enjoyed and to be honest it was only ENHANCED by lfr cause our group of 4 or 5 could que and get somewhere. We got nowhere running dailies as a group and frankly none of us liked the dailies either so we were left out in the fucking cold.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 09:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaeed Massani View Post
    What purpose specific to the dailies was there in Cataclysm? You didn't unlock additional storylines, no epic gear at the end of a quest chain, and the rep gained was also readily available through tabard championing which was considerably faster for tanks/healers than actually doing the dailies.

    As for the "need" of the gear, do Heroic raiders need the gear from the last boss of the tier? Why not remove that altogether? I mean, they kill the boss fine without the gear dropping from him/her/it.

    The same purpose that exists in mists. SOMETHING TO DO.

  14. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    But then nothing happens man. If you don't speak up and say SOMETHING then nothing happens. I wasn't even looking to raid this expansion. I had a group of 4 or 5 of us that made up a little sg1 team that ran our guys through dungeons (and we LIKED the harder dungeons but were okay in wrath to) and we had a blast doing it. In mists it just fell apart. The dungeons were done in two fucking days and we had the gear and then we sat around and said now what. It's just shitty man, we had a playstyle that we enjoyed and to be honest it was only ENHANCED by lfr cause our group of 4 or 5 could que and get somewhere. We got nowhere running dailies as a group and frankly none of us liked the dailies either so we were left out in the fucking cold.
    Well a majority of the community spoke up during Cata and especially Mists, and they're fixing the Daily system, along with Class balances, and especially PVP balances.

    Hell, half my guild is saying 5.2 looks like of the best patches to ever surface for the game, and a lot of them have been around since Vanilla.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
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  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    I never did those factions because I didn't feel a need to.

    Same thing with Wrath.

    See, here's what you need to understand about me: Most things I just do if I HAVE to, especially in WoW.

    In Wrath (started playing at the end of BC) I didn't get exalted with Sons of Hodir and whoever gave the Head Enchant until I think patch 3.2 or 3.3.

    I didn't really care. I just had fun playing the game. And my guild was a really good one, too.

    As for Cata, yes, i don't did those two factions because I didn't care about the rest.

    With Mists there's so many factions, I actually just do them because it adds to what I have to do.

    To an extent, I LIKE doing Dailies. I just don't like doing them EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

    That's my mentallity.

    I don't feel in the slightest obligated to do any of my dailies any day, nor grind Dungeons back in the day to get to exalted.

    I get there when I get there, and if I want to do the, I do them.
    Good for you. I liked doing dungeons with fucking rewards. Instead I get shit on and abandoned by the developers. The reality is that Blizzard is smart enough to realize that unless they COMPEL YOU WITH GEAR to do something you won't fucking do it and the "optionality" of it becomes irellevant.

  16. #696
    Quote Originally Posted by Alewen View Post
    My theory isn't going to be that high. My estimate is MoP sales will be good. But subscriptions took a significant dip, mostly due to dailies and the stance on CRZ. I been a long time supporter of Blizzard up until recently with some of their decisions. So the only reason I am hoping for a drop in subs, is so that they can reverse gears and return to a state they were before now. I don't want WoW to die, nor do I wish to see anyone fired. But I think a shift in direction is required.
    My prediction is 2mill.......in reality im hoping for 3-4mill. I agree with you...... I DON'T WANT WOW DEAD, but i want shock and awe ..... this is america, and we vote with our dollars. To get get change, you vote with your wallet. And nothing shy of total hock and awe will get attention.

    But I sense Blizzard may see this, hence why im adamant the next xpac will be burning legion and already got a beat with a co-worker the bad guy will be Illidan. (TBC was mearly a setback et al). Because they will need to draw back old school players...and the LK is kinda played out and Illidan wou,ld bring them back....in droves.
    Rel on Economics: "I'd wager most AH transaction are buy to flip sales. In fact most of the gold made is fake transactions to drive prices higher. Kinda like the whole financial collapse 2009...just saying..."

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Well a majority of the community spoke up during Cata and especially Mists, and they're fixing the Daily system, along with Class balances, and especially PVP balances.

    Hell, half my guild is saying 5.2 looks like of the best patches to ever surface for the game, and a lot of them have been around since Vanilla.
    Oh okay so now the people who were mad at dailies at launch are a majority of the community. Fantastic. If I went back I'm sure I could find some argument where you insisted that it was a pip squeek of players who were really only a minority that were upset at dailies. It never ends man. Like people defended dailies to the moon and back. Now that the developers are "responding to feedback" instead of being upset that the designers are ameliorating their design goals (something I called for since the beginning) the position just changes to yea that's what the community wanted all along. REALLY YOU SAY? Well I do declare nobody ever put that together. Christ.... You can defend their design decisions and even agree with them, but when they start to move away from them and do the opposite of what they wanted to do how can you still defend THEM? I knew this would come to. I said it. They will eventually move away from dailies, or at least loosen up the restrictions. I had people yell and scream at me that dailies were the best thing ever and Blizzard should stick to their guns and not give you rep in dungeons. Well look at that... and instead of being PISSED off at the developers for changing their minds when the majority of players don't like it (something I argued was the case as well) the goal post just moves and people still defend them. I mean they could tmmrw go back to hard heroics and abandon dailies totally and people would still defend them. Complete 180 it wouldn't matter.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-02-07 at 09:10 PM.

  18. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Good for you. I liked doing dungeons with fucking rewards. Instead I get shit on and abandoned by the developers. The reality is that Blizzard is smart enough to realize that unless they COMPEL YOU WITH GEAR to do something you won't fucking do it and the "optionality" of it becomes irellevant.
    What aspect compels you to get gear?

    I've never felt that, even when I started playing the game.
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  19. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Well a majority of the community spoke up during Cata and especially Mists, and they're fixing the Daily system, along with Class balances, and especially PVP balances.

    Hell, half my guild is saying 5.2 looks like of the best patches to ever surface for the game, and a lot of them have been around since Vanilla.
    It looks good, but IMO, they have failed to really address the fundamental problems in PVP. They've just put a bandaid on it again and will probably save any big changes for the next expansion.

    And we've heard it all before. Guild raids need more incentives, dead servers need to be merged and/or transfers need to be made free.
    "These people, Adam, they're like ghosts. Always in the shadows. Always hiding behind lies and proxy soldiers. I need you to find them. They cannot stop us. They cannot stop the future".

  20. #700
    On my server, there were like 2-3 main guilds I mingled with at the end of 2011 when DS came out. All 3 were either running one 25 man or multiple 10s. I actually had 3 separate 10 mans in my guild. Towards the end of the DS tier, around 30% debuff, one guild completely dismantled and the other two including my own condensed to 1 10 man raid. We then actually combined some of our alts for a separate pug 10 man heroic run.

    Eventually it tapered off and I was doing 1 10 man with the remaining guild at the very very end. Everyone who stopped playing said they wanted to give MoP a shot. Most came back ~30 players, hit 90, and then bitched about dailies. Of the 70 or so players from that sample, only 10 or so play now. So from my perspective, MoP was kind of their last hope, but dailies killed it.

    Obviously this is just a small sample and my experience.
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