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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Because A) there are better methodologies to count the success of WoW in Asia. B) By counting the way they do they mix apples with pears.

    5 million apples and 5 million pears is not 10 million apples. Simple as that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 02:16 PM ----------

    .

    Actually you are making a mistake: because a subscription is a subscription to WOW, be that cheap (like in South America or RUssia) or expensive (like western EU) compared to the US OR by having different systems in each country (like the PAY too PLAY cards in China).

    Why is it a subscription ? Well you ALL play the same game and with the recently introduced mechanics in BOTH SC2 AND Diablo 3, you actually already PLAY cross server these days in WOW ... too...

    I mean ... I MEET Russians all the time in BG's ... and they pay with a cheaper system already ...
    The same applies for ... the Chinese that play ... on Korean sub models (and might I say with LOTS of Raiding successes)...

    So for a PLAYER's position it is great to know we play cross server now and ALL play the game (just wait till trading and Guild play is integrated) and for the STOCK holders there is the financial REPORT and REVENUE.

    So what's the problem ? Apparently we ALL play with apples, you just want to divide the colors ... when I play with different colors ... on my cross server ALREADY.


  2. #402
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Keep it civil please. I know this subject gets heated every time the conference call rolls around, but let's play nice.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Simple: by stating the average amount of hours per sub, or the total amount of hours played. Is it really that hard?

    9 dollars and 13 dollars isn't a big difference, and it is a static amount.

    Their methodology is flawed.

    With Asian players its a completely different measure. Previously at least they differentiated between the subscriptions, but when Region A (rest of the world) went down and Region B (Asia) went up they decided to merge them. Fishy aye? They could, instead, say we have X million subscribers in Region A (rest of the world) and in Region B (Asia) we have Y amount of playtime. It is that simple, it gives your investors more transparency.
    Willing to bet the per hour folks play more then the monthly sub folks. Asian markets love grindy games and play the crap out of them. You hear more stories about people over there that die from long play sessions with out food or drink than anywhere else.

  4. #404
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    [B]I mean ... I MEET Russians all the time in BG's ... and they pay with a cheaper system already ...
    No they don't.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    I agree you need to count Chinese pay-per-use customers as subscribers, because the total subscriber number is an indicator of how many people are out there playing the game. However, that's why Activision also reports total income from subscriptions. A person paying $0.22 a month to log in and kill a few gnolls just isn't worth that much consideration when it comes to trying to please your customers.

    Anyway, my prediction is that Mope has done irreparable damage to the WoW franchise. Beyond that, D3 has completely tanked the company's credibility. The future does not seem particularly rosy for Activision.

    Besides the bitching on the forums, D3 turned out to be a huge success financially. The recent changes to the game has made it even more enjoyable to play.

  6. #406
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    Eh, they are really ALMOST the same. If anything it's 5 million red apples and 5 million green apples. lol
    No, they're not. You painted them like apples, but they're not apples. They pears.

    The people in China, for example, earn far less than us Europeans and Americans. That's a given. They also spend less of gaming, heck normal to not have own computer. So if you have (for example)

    Year X: 10 million subs EU/US.
    Year Y: 5 million subs EU/US, 5 million subs China.

    Then that means in these years you lost 5 million Western subs, and gained 5 million Chinese subs. However these Chinese pay less for their games and that is ALSO a given. What matters is how much exactly?

    On a second thought I wonder where the Chinese servers run and how much the Chinese GMs earn and all that, but still, the profit margins are very much local.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    No, they're not. You painted them like apples, but they're not apples. They pears.

    The people in China, for example, earn far less than us Europeans and Americans. That's a given. They also spend less of gaming, heck normal to not have own computer. So if you have (for example)

    Year X: 10 million subs EU/US.
    Year Y: 5 million subs EU/US, 5 million subs China.

    Then that means in these years you lost 5 million Western subs, and gained 5 million Chinese subs. However these Chinese pay less for their games and that is ALSO a given. What matters is how much exactly?

    On a second thought I wonder where the Chinese servers run and how much the Chinese GMs earn and all that, but still, the profit margins are very much local.
    As I explained that doesn't matter when the MONEY is there alright. 1.2 - 1.4 billion dollars on average per year (depending on box releases) from Blizzard.

    As for players: Russians pay almost half of me and I play with them /// so shouls we only count HALF of their subscriber numbers ?

    The same goes for Korea and China: 50% of Korean play is through paid card systems in cafés..., 50% is paying a fixed monthly sub..... ANOTHER fraction of China players play directly on Korean servers (the richest ones).

    So with cross server play I play with South Africans, Congolese, Russian people these days...

    And Chinese/Korean pay with other means...

    But they all play the same game and often on my server even

  8. #408
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Actually you are making a mistake: because a subscription is a subscription to WOW, be that cheap (like in South America or RUssia) or expensive (like western EU) compared to the US OR by having different systems in each country (like the PAY too PLAY cards in China).

    Why is it a subscription ? Well you ALL play the same game and with the recently introduced mechanics in BOTH SC2 AND Diablo 3, you actually already PLAY cross server these days in WOW ... too...

    I mean ... I MEET Russians all the time in BG's ... and they pay with a cheaper system already ...
    The same applies for ... the Chinese that play ... on Korean sub models (and might I say with LOTS of Raiding successes)...

    So for a PLAYER's position it is great to know we play cross server now and ALL play the game (just wait till trading and Guild play is integrated) and for the STOCK holders there is the financial REPORT and REVENUE.

    So what's the problem ? Apparently we ALL play with apples, you just want to divide the colors ... when I play with different colors ... on my cross server ALREADY.

    Nice try, but completely not realistic.

    We all play the same game: WoW. That's the fruit. The way we pay is different, and the amount we pay is different. Again, this is fine. I got no quibble with that.

    As you said when you subscribe to something you have a certain service attached to it, usually unlimited. In all areas except China it works like you pay an amount of currency and then have unlimited action, aka "the sub". China doesn't have this. So why call it subscription? Its a completely different league. Call it instead "WoW has 10 million players.

    You're right the profit margins are lower in other regions, but likely they also get local support from GMs in their own language etc. Maybe even worse support.

  9. #409
    Orcboi NatePsy's Avatar
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    Is there any way to listen to the upcoming Conference Call outside of the Registration? I get the feeling "Number" "Company" and "Investor Type" require you to be a shareholder.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    And yet there are many players who like the game as is. Has it ever occurred to you people that different people are allowed to like different things and that just because you personally don't like something doesn't make it bad or broken or "crap"?
    I know there are a lot of players that enjoy the game. Look at the numbers of subs i gave, did i say WoW will have 0 subs? Did i even say that the losses in subs would be in millons?

    No, i named a couple of things that made people quit and i made an estimation that WoW would lose a fre hundred of thousands subs.

    I still think that is what will be in the report.

    I also think Blizzard should pay atention to any subject that makes thousands of hundred of people quit.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsychotic View Post
    Is there any way to listen to the upcoming Conference Call outside of the Registration? I get the feeling "Number" "Company" and "Investor Type" require you to own some stock.
    I've never done it but I am pretty sure anyone can register. Anyway it will be posted here within seconds of it being announced.

  12. #412
    Epic! Xothic's Avatar
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    How soon is it meant to be up? I am curious, but its midnight here and if its still a few hours away ill just go to sleep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    my gf left me, should i Just go gay?
    Xothic - Prot Paladin

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Xothic View Post
    How soon is it meant to be up? I am curious, but its midnight here and if its still a few hours away ill just go to sleep.
    Got another 5 and half hours to go, get some sleep.

  14. #414
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Yeah well..stock market, eh? Apple has record winnings, yet stock falls because they expected even MOAR. BTW..did "profits sink into a pithole". And are they still profits when in a sinkhole? Did Blizzard games make anybody lose money? Why does any of us care? Is anyone a staockholder? Shouldn't we give a flying F... about those bastards, seeing how they and banks manage to destroy billions of (largely imaginary) money?

    I mean..seeing this thread full of people that apparently have so much of a clue about economics, maybe somebody can clear all that up.
    Apple isn't in a good position despite their high profit margins. Apple has some market share in luxury segments in US and EU and RU and that's it. If you look at Japan, where there is a lot of innovation on gadget industry Apple has zero to none market penetration. The popularity you see in US of Apple products is nowhere near realistic anywhere else in the world. Americans are devoid of this, but market analysis know! Apple isn't a player if Africa, nor in Asia. Samsung is. Samsung is the new Nokia, they can play the high end game as well as the low end game. Apple has no competing product for gaming as of now. Their desktop and laptop profits are lowering due to dying platform. So that is why the profits will lower, for now, until Apple invents a new cash cow which they will no doubt succeed in.

    Also just because Diablo 3 sells well doesn't mean the game was a success. Long term customer loyalty you can't measure in a few months time, you'll see that when Diablo 4 is released. Maybe customers have forgiven Blizzard by that time.

    We players don't have much to do with shareholders indeed, but it is in our indirect benefit if the company of whom we bought a license and a subscription from to play their game is in a healthy position just like the shareholder prefers players to happily play the game so they get more profit us gamers want shareholders to invest and get profit from their cake. Because then Blizzard can bake a new cake we can eat. Shareholder system is rotten for different reason: its build on short term gain.

  15. #415
    Epic! Xothic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Got another 5 and half hours to go, get some sleep.
    Haha, I might do just that then :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    my gf left me, should i Just go gay?
    Xothic - Prot Paladin

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Nice try, but completely not realistic.

    We all play the same game: WoW. That's the fruit. The way we pay is different, and the amount we pay is different. Again, this is fine. I got no quibble with that.

    As you said when you subscribe to something you have a certain service attached to it, usually unlimited. In all areas except China it works like you pay an amount of currency and then have unlimited action, aka "the sub". China doesn't have this. So why call it subscription? Its a completely different league. Call it instead "WoW has 10 million players.

    You're right the profit margins are lower in other regions, but likely they also get local support from GMs in their own language etc. Maybe even worse support.
    Apparently you don't know that Korea has a mixed system of both pay to play cards in internet cafés (Chinese model) and another system based on a fixed sub from home. Other smaller Asian countries use both mixed systems too.

    So really with a mix of ALL kinds of players these days already in both systems mixed together, there is only ONE thing to know: they ALL PAY to PLAY (over the last month)... or they are not counted.

    Which matters to stock holders as it is a steady assurance of huge sums of money, but to players it doesn't matter since they already play together with mixed fees AND systems.

    Perhaps better inform you first as ... the internet café play is not limited to China (and vice versa since China guys play on Asian servers too).

    And IF you would want to use "players": you are WRONG: since players PAY to PLAY (or they are not counted). These days indeed a BIG ... difference.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-07 at 02:14 PM.

  17. #417
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Xothic View Post
    How soon is it meant to be up? I am curious, but its midnight here and if its still a few hours away ill just go to sleep.
    Scroll back 1 page where someone gave various timezones. The conference call starts at 1.30 PM PST (or 13.30 PST) which means UTC 20.30 and CET 21.30.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 03:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Apparently you don't know that Korea has a mixed system of both pay to play cards in internet cafés (Chinese model) and another system based on a fixed sub from home. Other smaller Asian countries use both mixed systems too.
    I said China before as well as Asia and mixed them up and no I did not know that, but I do know its a different market heck a different ladder IMO given their resets work different.

    So really with a mix of ALL kinds of players these days already in both systems mixed together, there is only ONE thing to know: they ALL PAY to PLAY (over the last month)... or they are not counted.

    Which matters to stock holders as it is a steady assurance of huge sums of money, but to players it doesn't matter since they already play together with mixed fees AND systems.

    Perhaps better inform you first as ... the internet café play is not limited to China (and vice versa since China guys play on Korean servers too).
    That's fine, then don't call it subs but call it WoW players and then put the proof in the pudding. Right now the headline is just plain inaccurate.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Scroll back 1 page where someone gave various timezones. The conference call starts at 1.30 PM PST (or 13.30 PST) which means UTC 20.30 and CET 21.30.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 03:12 PM ----------

    I said China before as well as Asia and mixed them up and no I did not know that, but I do know its a different market heck a different ladder IMO given their resets work different.

    That's fine, then don't call it subs but call it WoW players and then put the proof in the pudding. Right now the headline is just plain inaccurate.
    No they are active subscribers because they PAY to PLAY World of Warcraft on a monthly (active) basis. Farmville has 80.000.000 players
    World of Tanks has 35 million players. Big deal.

    We leave those free player numbers to the wannabees.

    We have our club and these club members are subscribers who pay to play the club's activity. Be that through a cell phone like card or through a period card. But we both belong to the club of PAID WOW play.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-07 at 02:22 PM.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    No they are active subscribers because they PAY to PLAY World of Warcraft on a monthly (active) basis. Farmville has 80.000.000 players
    World of Tanks has 35 million players. Big deal.

    We leave those free player numbers to the wannabees.

    We have our club and these club members are subscribers who pay to play the club's activity.
    Hmm, you constantly throw around the sub figures to put down other games but when other games have a larger player base their players don't count. Seems fair to me

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Hmm, you constantly throw around the sub figures to put down other games but when other games have a larger player base their players don't count. Seems fair to me
    Correct. They don't count as these games have no pay to play mechanics and so have 0.000.000 subscriptions.... and 3500 zillion players.

    I have no problem with mine sweeper either. I DO have problems with people trying to scratch (predict) a few 100K active paying players off from WOW when their preferered games show no proof of revenue either.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-07 at 02:29 PM.

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