Bards as New Class: Yay or Nay?

[Flaks]

Like I said, paladin and shaman were practically pure support classes even into tBC. But no one liked being forced into that role when your paladin and shaman had dps specs too. If pally and shammy healing style had remained support oriented, this game could have very easily accommodated the addition of bards. Homogenization dictated otherwise.

[Drilnos]

It's not difficult to think of ways a bard could work in WoW. The game is full of mobs that attack with sound magic, with the most high-profile recent example being Imperial Vizier Zor'lok. There is a sound elemental lord, Murmur, so the idea that sound magic doesn't fit in the lore just doesn't hold water. On top of that, Hearthsinger Forresten, a rare boss in Stratholme, is a literal bard, and uses shouts and songs along with a bow to debuff, cc and attack. In other words, this is a real class lore-wise, we just can't play it, same as demon hunters, necromancers and all the rest.

As far as the taboo against support classes go, it's a relic of a time when there was no such thing as dual spec, and the cost of changing specs was prohibitive. Neither of these is the case anymore. The class could easily accommodate a dps, healing and support spec.

With that said, they would probably put in another class or two before they did this one.

[nemro82]

I would change my main to Bard in a heartbeat.

[Tuulikki 27]

Played one in Rift and loved it, I would just love to have one in WoW!, I would shelf my main in a heart beat, I wouldn't mind what way
blizz went with it either, we could heal, dps or just be a support class making all around us better.
I have been wanting a bard since vanilla, when I found out they were in Rift, its the reason I gave the game a go!

[Findus707]

Rogue = Bard

[DonQShot]

It's not difficult to think of ways a bard could work in WoW. The game is full of mobs that attack with sound magic, with the most high-profile recent example being Imperial Vizier Zor'lok. There is a sound elemental lord, Murmur, so the idea that sound magic doesn't fit in the lore just doesn't hold water. On top of that, Hearthsinger Forresten, a rare boss in Stratholme, is a literal bard, and uses shouts and songs along with a bow to debuff, cc and attack. In other words, this is a real class lore-wise, we just can't play it, same as demon hunters, necromancers and all the rest.

As far as the taboo against support classes go, it's a relic of a time when there was no such thing as dual spec, and the cost of changing specs was prohibitive. Neither of these is the case anymore. The class could easily accommodate a dps, healing and support spec.

With that said, they would probably put in another class or two before they did this one.

I SUPPORT this post, pun intended =P. My guess is they add Demon hunter next to fill the mail gap, then start with support classes maybe with a tinker or a dragonsworn...?

[Justforthis123]

Dont know what a dragonsworn is , but a bard or a tinker would do perfectly fine.

If they arent in the lore they will just need to add it as they did for pandaren and monk.

If it was for me i would love a necromancer class like in d2 but it would resemble too much locks or dks... so a bard or tinker will do.

[dokhidamo]

Like I said, paladin and shaman were practically pure support classes even into tBC. But no one liked being forced into that role when your paladin and shaman had dps specs too. If pally and shammy healing style had remained support oriented, this game could have very easily accommodated the addition of bards. Homogenization dictated otherwise.

The problem with support classes is balance. If their boons are not strong, then no one wants to take them. But if their benefits are too strong, they become required.

Low-end groups would get less benefit out of support specs because doubling 100 is 200. But high-end groups would mandate them, because doubling 150 is 300.

Likely if a Bard were introduced, it'd be introduced in the basic tank/heal/dps mold with an "emphasis on support." By that I mean it'd heal a lot like a Disc priest, DPS like affliction, and some other third spec. It'd also bring along a lot of buffs, maybe be a class that (if you were all 3 specs at once) could bring all 8 buffs in one class. Maybe have a number of abilities like Unholy Frenzy (DK buff) or Commanding Shout (Warrior buff).

---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 12:44 PM ----------

Dont know what a dragonsworn is , but a bard or a tinker would do perfectly fine.

If they arent in the lore they will just need to add it as they did for pandaren and monk.

If it was for me i would love a necromancer class like in d2 but it would resemble too much locks or dks... so a bard or tinker will do.

Teeechnically it already exists through the L90ETC. But if Blizz wanted to make it a serious class, they'd have to move it away from the rocker feel of the ETC and the April Fools joke.

[Amonra]

It's not difficult to think of ways a bard could work in WoW. The game is full of mobs that attack with sound magic, with the most high-profile recent example being Imperial Vizier Zor'lok. There is a sound elemental lord, Murmur, so the idea that sound magic doesn't fit in the lore just doesn't hold water. On top of that, Hearthsinger Forresten, a rare boss in Stratholme, is a literal bard, and uses shouts and songs along with a bow to debuff, cc and attack. In other words, this is a real class lore-wise, we just can't play it, same as demon hunters, necromancers and all the rest.

As far as the taboo against support classes go, it's a relic of a time when there was no such thing as dual spec, and the cost of changing specs was prohibitive. Neither of these is the case anymore. The class could easily accommodate a dps, healing and support spec.

With that said, they would probably put in another class or two before they did this one.

The examples you put aren't bard magic or even sound magic, they are elemental/biological skills and ghost powers. They are just ways to work around the impossibility of bard magic in wow (that barring retcon is not there) and only begs the question: is it worth the hassle?

[huth]

What the mantid do is at least partially magic in nature.

That aside, bardic magic is not only possible, it's in the game. Check Russell Brower in Twilight Highlands.

Teeechnically it already exists through the L90ETC. But if Blizz wanted to make it a serious class, they'd have to move it away from the rocker feel of the ETC and the April Fools joke.

Well, the april fools part, sure. But there's nothing to say that music in Azeroth didn't develop on completely different paths than ours did.

It probably wouldn't be too hard to justify frontline bards wearing mail, either.

[Amonra]

What the mantid do is at least partially magic in nature.

That aside, bardic magic is not only possible, it's in the game. Check Russell Brower in Twilight Highlands.

Yeah, but at most its biology augmented by magic.

Russel Brower is pretty compelling evidence though and can't be disregarded objectively.

[Lilly32]

If you look at Bards in other MMOs they would never ever work in WoW. In Everquest Bards were primarily buffers that boosted the strength of their parties and raids. They also had good CC and pulling ability neither of which has any use in WoW. All 3 Bard types from DAoC were again primarily buffers and CC although Bards on Hibernia side could heal and buff but that would be no different than a WoW druid or shaman. Bards from Rift again buffers and decent off-healing abilities in both raids and groups. Now why would they ever add a class that is built around buffing up the group or raid when they already stripped Shaman of their monopoly on buffs from their totems and gave buffs to every class? They already nerfed the buffing ability of the only true buff class in WoW so why would they even consider adding another class whos role is primarily that of a buff bot?

Id rather see them add a 4th talent tree to all classes and finally do away with Pures. Pures are no longer needed in WoW, or any game for that matter, and are a relic of the past. Give rogues a tank tree and Locks/Mages a healing tree. Mages can heal with the power of water similar to Water attuned Elementalists in GW2 with their focus more on group and raid heals and Locks can heal by doing damage like Chloromancers in Rift with more focus on single target healing. Or the other way around works fine since Chloromancers were awesome single target tank healers as well as raid healers. I think the day of companies going "heres your class now play it how we tell you, not how u want" are gone. Rift's system of picking talents and sub classes along with GW2 completely getting rid of "tanks" and "healers" by giving every class a lot of utility gives the player control over how they play the game and is the future.

I mean would you rather have options when building your character to fit YOUR playstyle and being able to change that depending on what you are doing that day or would you rather Blizzard tell you "This is how you will play your class and you WILL like it"?

[Drilnos]

The examples you put aren't bard magic or even sound magic, they are elemental/biological skills and ghost powers. They are just ways to work around the impossibility of bard magic in wow (that barring retcon is not there) and only begs the question: is it worth the hassle?

All right. Let's look at a particular ability of Grand Empress Shek'zeer's, shall we?

Dissonance Field — The Empress creates a dissonance field which disrupts the sound associated with magic.[Notes 1] The dissonance field absorbs nearby magical effects until it runs out of resonance. Once its resonance depletes, the field erupts in a Sonic Discharge. Players casting magical effects inside the dissonance field also deplete it of resonance.

The Empress creates a dissonance field which disrupts the sound associated with magic.

the sound associated with magic.

Oh, it's just elemental powers? So is fire. So is frost. Mages still use those. Biological skills? Let's examine the Mantid lore object, Amber.

Masters of sound, the mantid long ago found a way to use amber to extend the range of their acoustic casting. In this way they are able to communicate over vast distances. No army has successfully marched on mantid lands undetected, and even lone travelers are urged caution as their movements are no doubt being watched the moment they venture beyond the wall.

Masters of sound, the mantid long ago found a way to use amber to extend the range of their acoustic casting.

acoustic casting.

And one of the "ghost powers" that Forresten uses is none other than Demoralizing Shout, a sound which applies a debuff and is usable by warriors which are not dead.

The only retcon is to deny that Sound in the Warcraft universe is a usable type of magic. More examples of songs of power follow.

A'dal's Song of Battle
K'iru's Song of Victory
A Cleansing Song
Song of Fecundity
Song of Wind and Water
Song of Reflection
Siren's Song
Reverberating Hymn
Inspiring Song
Hymn of Hope
Divine Hymn
Forest Song
Calming Song of the Singer
Healing Song of the Singer
Crane's Song
Song of Persuasion
Song of Sylvanas
Song of the Empress
The Blade's Song
Hellscream's Warsong
Lullaby
Lullaby
Enchanting Lullaby
Sweet Lullaby

I could go on, and I didn't even start on the abilities which are sound-based but not songs. Warrior shouts, Horn of Winter for death knights, the act of casting a spell, which is an incantation. One of the songs above is indeed sung by a bard, but that's not the point. The point is that music has power. Sound has power. It's more than that. Sound is the raw material for magic. There's a reason being silenced makes a spellcaster unable to do anything but flail around helplessly. It's not about yelling random gibberish so loud it hurts the enemy's ears. It's about making the right sounds in the right sequence at the right time. And that is what a musically inclined character should be good at, isn't it?

[Santti]

I don't see how bard would fit into World of Warcraft as playable class. Healer? I guess that could work. Tank or DPS? Nah. Or maybe something new. A support class that is basically a totem on wheels? No thanks.

Either way, I think we shouldn't introduce any new classes for some time. Adding new ones makes balancing the old ones that much more difficult every time. And we all know the balancing could use some work in both PvE and PvP.

Make it something else, if playing a lute is something that must be in. A secondary profession maybe.

[checking facts]

just to remind people how powerful sound is on WoW: Murmur <Destroyer of Worlds>

http://www.wowpedia.org/Codex_of_Blood

"Long ago, in a dimension of the cosmos unfathomable to mortal minds, there was born - if such a term can be used for it - a being of such unbelievable power that its very entrance into existence shattered all reality around it.
Known only as Murmur, it was the essence of sound. And to hear it speak was to know death eternal!
Existing only for chaos, its slightest whisper meant the destruction of whole worlds!
Yet still, there were those that would try to worship this mindless being. There were even those more insane who dared to think to control it!
And lo, how the mighty fell trembling at its feet, fearful that it might direct its words upon them.
But still did these charlatans, these worshipping pretenders to a non-existent religion, rail against the inevitable in a vain attempt to control their 'god'. Uncaring, and likely not even noticing them, Murmur yawned and they knew oblivion.
Yet one somehow managed to survive, and in his insanity found a way to bring Murmur into the world.
A mortal possessed of arcane and dark knowledge that none could surpass, he devised a method to enhance his summoning through the capture and use of souls untold.
Whole civilizations were brought to extinction through his soul devices to fuel the ritual through which he and his conspirators would bring Murmur into their world.
And summon forth Murmur they did.
Powerful magics of containment and silencing were employed, held together by the constant supply of souls being fed into them. Yet still they could not control the beast, could not bend it to their will.
These mortals began to devise different strategies, and one after the other they all failed. And in so doing, they weakened the rituals, accidentally giving Murmur the slightest modicum of freedom.
It was all that was needed.
Only this book survived the cataclysm that destroyed their world. Those proud and foolish men who thought to control a cosmic being of untold power.
Would you, the possessor of the codex, do the same?
Have you devised a foolproof method to summon forth Murmur, or any of the other entities cautiously whispered of in these unhallowed pages?
We shall see."

yeah, you can't have people messing with that, it would be OP lol

[Lilly32]

I just dont see how you could get 3 talent trees for bards anyways. The only ones that would make sense to me would be:

Buffs: Wont work as stated throughout the post as we dont need a buffbot class.
Healing: Probably would be a HoT class if they base it off of Bards in other MMOs with a few small instant heals. Nope wouldnt work we have druids for that.
DPS: Would be very similar to a rogue. A dual wield class that is sneaky and fast attacking. Already have rogues so again wouldnt work.

[PenguinChan]

I say Yay, because it brings more variety if Blizzard pulled it off right. I don't see what's wrong with a "Support / Buff" bard, but I know someone (And probably someone in this thread) wouldn't want someone playing such a thing.

[dokhidamo]

I just dont see how you could get 3 talent trees for bards anyways. The only ones that would make sense to me would be:

Buffs: Wont work as stated throughout the post as we dont need a buffbot class.
Healing: Probably would be a HoT class if they base it off of Bards in other MMOs with a few small instant heals. Nope wouldnt work we have druids for that.
DPS: Would be very similar to a rogue. A dual wield class that is sneaky and fast attacking. Already have rogues so again wouldnt work.

Depends on if Blizz is willing to do again what they did with the Monk. Construct different, unique, and downright new ways of doing the same 3 old roles.

[Celista]

Depends on if Blizz is willing to do again what they did with the Monk. Construct different, unique, and downright new ways of doing the same 3 old roles.

Playing a healer monk is nothing really new, it's essentially all of the other wow healing classes thrown into one class.

In comparison to monks in other mmos? Then yeah, monks in wow are relatively unique.

[Lilly32]

Playing a healer monk is nothing really new, it's essentially all of the other wow healing classes thrown into one class.

In comparison to monks in other mmos? Then yeah, monks in wow are relatively unique.

If you consider Friars from dark age of camelot monks they are similar. both staff fighters and could heal.