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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucci View Post
    They're finally starting to do what every warrior who's played the class for years already expected. They're starting to overnerf once again without changing or reverting other aspects of the class to compensate. Little thing called balance, lol. It seems like no matter how much time they have to tune the class they always end up screwing it up in the end and then it goes live and stays that way for a ridiculously long time.


    It's disgusting to see people cry about warriors and not care if the class gets driven into the ground just because they were op for a few months. Completely forgetting how bad the class has had it through the years. People are desensitized to mages and other classes because they've always been op. But they're used to warrior being an easy target so they won't stand for them being good and will cry and moan and complain until they're back to Cata state..in other words utterly useless.
    very well said but its sad when you think about how right you are

    just a small example of blizz never changing or reverting talent/abilities to compensate us would be pummel.pummel has a longer cd now then it did in cata.in a time when there more instant casts and immunity s then ever before.why does pummel have a longer cd some people might ask?well thats beacsue im sure blizz balanced pummel around heroic throw glyph and have a silence on it.but since herioc throw has been nerfed/removed,warriors end up with a nerfed fuckign pummel,making it worse then it was in cata.
    Last edited by meathead; 2013-01-24 at 10:15 PM.

  2. #262
    I just realized something.... with the bladestorm changes and all of that, i just tried to bladestorm without the weapon (i thought the tooltips was pulling my leg) but you could actually....

    FISTSTORM!!!
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2013-01-24 at 10:39 PM.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Wootylicious View Post
    rogues coming from cata to mop rings a bell here. it kinda makes it hard not to say stuff like "warrior tears, i love em" when that shit was spammed at the rogues face for the last few months..

    on a more serious note, second wind shuld b reverted back and make battle stance reduce dmg taken by lets say 10-15%.
    Its actually not true. I decent played Rogue are still insane in 2s and 3s. The controle, the burst, and their CCs are just too much. Put him together with a well playing Frost mage. And bam.
    Main(s) since Vanilla: Enha sham / Hunter. Alt since TBC: Warrior.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    I just realized something.... with the bladestorm changes and all of that, i just tried to bladestorm without the weapon (i thought the tooltips was pulling my leg) but you could actually....

    FISTSTORM!!!
    Can you use it to "trinket" a disarm then?

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatsu View Post
    Can you use it to "trinket" a disarm then?
    That... idk, ill further investigate that.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    "i'm not denying warriors were one of the weakest melee last season".
    not one of,but rather WERE the worst by a fair amount.

    "but having 2 weak seasons in no way justifies the ludicrous over buffs they got this season"

    no warriors in here are saying we did not need a few nerfs,but you fail to see that they are over nerfing us.warriors are ina good spot atm,and alot of top warriors are sitting on there ratings.what blizz is doing now is fuckign the class over by over nerfing us.like i said to you before,im fine with the d-stance nerf,tfb nerf,shock wave nerf,"30 sec would be fine",avatar nerf. but the 2nd wind nerf,op,nerf,MS nerf, fear nerf was not needed.getting over buffed because warriors were the worst pvp class in game was wrong.but over nerfing warriors because we WERE strong is not right either.

    there has been way to many nerfs dished out to warriors and people like you are still crying form more.
    i know more warriors who got glad last season, then i know know enhance shamans who got anywhere close to glad, and i know a lot of enhance shamans. if you think warriors 'are in a good spot" then you are one of those dumb idiots who think they class is absolute crap unless its ludicrously overpowered.

    warriors are season 5 dk levels of stupid right now. we all remember the idiocy of season 5 right?

    they are not over nerfing warriors, not even close. monk and rogue over buffs are going to hurt them a lot more, but they are still going to be one of the stronger melee because the core of what makes a warrior useful is unchanged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucci View Post
    It's disgusting to see people cry about warriors and not care if the class gets driven into the ground just because they were op for a few months. Completely forgetting how bad the class has had it through the years. People are desensitized to mages and other classes because they've always been op.
    so the other 9 seasons they were OP don't exist? arena has been around for a LONG time, and warriors have been really good for the majority of it.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  7. #267
    I agree with the guy above, warriors are at DK season 5 levels of OP.... the class is damn near impossible to kite for more than 3 seconds, and when in trouble, go defense stance, and just keep letting second wind heal you. My big issue is that the first 65% of the fight with the warrior is totally different from the last 35%, where you need all of your CD's lined up to burst em, and if they have just one defensive CD you won't do enough damage or they'll disrupt it...

  8. #268
    Stood in the Fire
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    The idiot Blizz nerfs wrong things.. Dont take our healing or survivability! Nerf our damn UberNuke macro instead! Make it so that bloodbath and avatar last longer but give less buff to damage. Atm i can blow up almost anyone who doesnt have a major def cooldown ready, in about 6seconds.

    Bake the -15% damage taken to Battle Stance. This way our sustained damage (which is low) is buffed, while nerf CD stacking. This goes for many other classes, its too much of "POP CDs, blow someone".

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    so the other 9 seasons they were OP don't exist? arena has been around for a LONG time, and warriors have been really good for the majority of it.
    This just in: warriors have been op for 9 seasons.

    Breaking news: low enhancement shaman rep means warriors were fine last season.

    We have clearly outline WHY these nerfs are over the top. You have provided absolutely nothing to counter our points except say "OMG WARRIORS ARE GOING TO BE SO OVERPOWERED" all while constantly slipping in "QQQQ WHY RET SO WEAK". We've also repeatedly given the reasons why ret is fine while your counterpoints have consisted entirely of "WTF DO YOU EVEN KNOW RET?!"
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-01-25 at 12:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  10. #270
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    This just in: warriors have been op for 9 seasons.
    Season 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12...

    Maybe not op, but at least a good margin better off than average. Similiar to the state frost mages right now..

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    No class deserves to be terrible for a season just because they had a good season.
    Yeah but everyone thinks that after an OP class/spec/ability gets nerfed, don't they? They compare their state now to their previously broken-ass OP state and complain. When they say they're "terrible now" they mean they're weaker than they once were. Players are very rarely objective about class balance. How often do you see an OP ability get nerfed and players say "okay cool, we're fine now!"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  12. #272
    you really complain that you can't sit in defensive stance 24/7 now ?
    then you complain about mobility and you play a dk as main? i guess your complaining about the wrong class then

    warrior is still gonna be good, after a whole season of retardness, and their burst in recklessness is still way to high

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    This just in: warriors have been op for 9 seasons.

    Breaking news: low enhancement shaman rep means warriors were fine last season.

    We have clearly outline WHY these nerfs are over the top. You have provided absolutely nothing to counter our points except say "OMG WARRIORS ARE GOING TO BE SO OVERPOWERED" all while constantly slipping in "QQQQ WHY RET SO WEAK". We've also repeatedly given the reasons why ret is fine while your counterpoints have consisted entirely of "WTF DO YOU EVEN KNOW RET?!"
    my counterpoints also consist of "ARE YOU AN IDIOT, ARENA DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!!" and "ONE SHOT MECHANICS ARE BAD DESIGN!" and " HERES WHY THAT ISN'T A NERF!!" and " MONK/ROGUES OVERBUFFS WILL HURT REPRESENTATION MORE THEN ANY NERFS WILL" but also "WHY IS THERE INCONSISTENCY IN ACCESS TO TANKING TOOLKITS?!"

    you've never refuted a single one of my points, and i've actually corrected you on several of your errors in warrior mechanics.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  14. #274
    Brewmaster Xl House lX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks Warriors are going to be bottom of the barrel in 5.2 out of all of the melee? I've been reading some other threads about the nerfs and most people keep claiming that Warriors are going to be "fine, just not OP." Here are some of my thoughts why I believe Warriors are going to be terrible if nothing changes. Its long.

    Second Wind Nerf/Defensive Stance nerf - This nerf is downright absurd and I'll explain why because I've seen so much ignorance floating around from people who've never played a Warrior. Warriors in Cataclysm originally had Second Wind and an ability named Blood Craze. Without going into details Blood Craze had a 10% chance of healing the Warrior when he received any damage source. Second Wind would only heal through a stun. Basically, these two talents healed for such a minimal amount, that it only made Warrior more resilient against bleeds and dots over DK's who have no passive healing. Old Battle Stance gave the Warrior 5% damage reduction and 5% damage bonus. The only heal that Warriors had that mattered was Enraged Regeneration, which at the time, healed for 30% of health over 10 seconds... 3 minute cool down. Then there was a talent called Field Dressing that buffed it to 36% I believe, but I forget the actual numbers.

    5.2 Warrior doesn't have any passive healing outside of Second Wind and only gets a 0% reduction from Battle Stance. Yeah I said "Battle Stance" because Defensive Stance isn't viable with 5.2 Arms thanks to Blizzards ingenious Taste for Blood change. Overpower costs 10 rage and Defensive Stance offers only 10 rage per mortal strike with a small 1 rage bonus per 3 seconds. Previously, 5.0 -5.1 Warriors would just sit in defensive stance and really only use Mortal Strike, Overpower and Colossus Smash while completely ignoring Slam with the occasional Heroic Strike when having excess extra rage. Slam is just painful to use considering Warriors in pvp have way too many globals to fill and to use one of those globals for Slam is just a waste when it could be used to either re apply mortal strike, hit hamstring, hit shockwave or use a sudden death proc. Slam is basically a terrible burden to Arms considering Arms historically never really used it until season 10. Anyway, Defensive Stance in 5.2 will only be used if the Warrior is going to die because of the rage cost from Overpower that didn't exist in 5.1.

    Back to healing, Rallying Cry is basically the only "heal" Warriors have but its mostly used as a utility ability to stack with shaman spirit link. Enraged Regeneration is now a talent that has to be chosen over Second Wind but its now a 10% heal on a 1 minute cool down. In other words, it sucks. 5.2 Second Wind is still affected by battle fatigue, and currently doesn't heal through stuns. That basically means once the Warrior is caught in a stun, he could go from 100-0 without a trinket. Before DK's and Ret Paladins go ape shit and explain to me "Well too bad, that's what we have to deal with" let me explain that Warriors have no jail cards out of stuns besides a trinket.

    Warriors are also the only melee in the game that moves at 100% movement speed against most classes who can run up to 115% or even up to 125%. Warriors are basically turtles and hamstring is joke considering its only a 50% movement debuff that requires melee range and 10 rage and is also easily dispelled. Compare that to Ret paladin Burden of Guilt which is basically a free ranged 50% movement slow that gives the Ret paladin one charge of holy power and if the ret is specced into long arm of the law can run up to 45% movement speed for 3 seconds. Judgement is only on a 6 second cool down and that cool down can be lowered through haste stacking.

    Basically what I'm trying to explain is that Warriors can't kite melee. They have no tools outside of safeguard to break snares and mainly rely on team mates to dispell for them. Warriors don't have stealth, nor do they any type of fade or absorb type abilities. They have fear immunity every 30 seconds, which is great but not useful if the Warrior is the target getting trained. All they have is damage reduction abilities such as Shield Wall and Demoralizing Banner which only delay the inevitable due to their long cool downs. Heroic Leap, safeguard is really the only "escape" a Warrior has, but a defensive Warrior is a dead Warrior. Warriors are only doing well when they are maintaining pressure. If they're constantly being trained into the ground, they're more of a burden to the team healer than an actual asset. This is why I believe 5.1 Second Wind with 25% Defensive stance was not only fine, but necessary if you have a 40 second Shockwave. Warriors are Warriors, they're meant to have high passive defense for their complete lack of being able to avoid damage and slow ass movement speed.

    Season 11 Warriors weren't bad because they did no damage. In fact, season 11 Arms did great sustained damage but lacked in the defense department. However, Rogue could basically sit on a Warrior all game and slowed/stunned to the point where the damage didn't matter. This is exactly what is going to happen in 5.2. Its almost as if Warriors are going to become Season 12 Frost DK's without the ridiculous sustained pressure that Frost can deal but every 5 minutes can trounce someone that is stupid enough to sit in Avatar/Reck which by the way thanks to 5.1 nerfs, can be kited.

    This thread is about my opinion on the future of 5.2 Warriors. I don't care if you play an Elemental Shaman, Enhancement Shaman, Ret Paladin, WW Monk, Rogue, DK, Balance Druid, and cry on the forums with the "Pity me" attitude by constantly attacking people who play classes such as Warriors and Mages that had a good season. If you're going to make stupid statements like "Well now you know how US RETS FEEL" or "After season 12, I don't have any sympathy for Warriors" just get out, I won't reply to such stupid nonsense. Some people seriously need to get their head of of their asses and stop having so much blind loyalty to a certain class like its some sort of sports team.

    I main DK by the way. I have no real sympathy towards Warriors but I want them to be actually viable and not dogshit for another 8 months until Blizzard decides to add a patch. No class deserves to be terrible for a season just because they had a good season. But this is the land of Blizzard and as much as they don't say it, they sure seem to balance this game for some classes around that philosophy.
    I'll be straight up with you man. I was really going to read your whole post, but then I read your first paragraph when you said nerfs to defensive stance and second wind were "absurd". After that its really hard to take you seriously.

    Second wind, an ability which gives you rage AND 3% health per second or something like that. Oh, it doesn't require upkeep by the way. Paladins and WoG want to say hi to you.

    Defensive stance, a stance that provides an exceptional damage reduction without any losses in rage gain, hell I think it actually increase the amount of rage you get vs. battle stance.

    And your complaining? Lol.

    I hope Warriors do get bottom of the barrel. Warrior representation went through the roof and atmosphere and beyond with MoP. They need nerfs badly. What pisses me off is how theres always a "FotM". That term shouldn't even fucking exist. People should play the freaking class they like to play cause they like its play style. Not because "Omg its so OP right nao lulolulol".

    Balance is all I ask for.

    EDIT: Just say you complaining about Ret Paladins and how they can decrease movement speed. Guess what? We don't have a gap closer. No charge, death grip, FSK. We straight up run to our targets. You on the other hand can charge, charge, intervene, heroic leap. Do you really need a passive run speed increase on top of that? Plus you still have hamstring. By the way burden of guilt can be cleansed off to as far as I know. Your post is just straight up crappy man, in all honesty Warriors will still be in a good spot after nerfs.

    Play a Ret and tell me how you feel when you don't get accepted into RBG's because of how much superior Warriors/DK's are as melee dps.
    Last edited by Xl House lX; 2013-01-25 at 12:32 AM.
    Call me House.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderchain View Post
    Its actually not true. I decent played Rogue are still insane in 2s and 3s. The controle, the burst, and their CCs are just too much. Put him together with a well playing Frost mage. And bam.
    Now put a rogue up against a warrior, spriest, dk, feral, etc. Are you talking about that corpse over there?

  16. #276
    Quick update... bladestorm does an insane amount of damage (as arms) apparently you do off-hand attacks as well.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    i know more warriors who got glad last season, then i know know enhance shamans who got anywhere close to glad, and i know a lot of enhance shamans. if you think warriors 'are in a good spot" then you are one of those dumb idiots who think they class is absolute crap unless its ludicrously overpowered.

    warriors are season 5 dk levels of stupid right now. we all remember the idiocy of season 5 right?

    they are not over nerfing warriors, not even close. monk and rogue over buffs are going to hurt them a lot more, but they are still going to be one of the stronger melee because the core of what makes a warrior useful is unchanged.



    so the other 9 seasons they were OP don't exist? arena has been around for a LONG time, and warriors have been really good for the majority of it.
    so im a dumb idiot you say?thats funny coming for a guy that has to call people names to try and win his argument.

    "i know more warriors who got glad last season, then i know know enhance shamans who got anywhere close to glad"


    all i got to say to that is LMFAO and you call me a dumb idiot!we guess what smart guy,shamans were the #1 pvp class in cata. restro shammys were in over 80% of the top 3 mans teams.thats why you did not see many enhance because they were all face rolling as restro. warriors on the other hand were the lowest represented class ever last season.your example is just bad and makes me lol @ you.

    of course i remember season 5,that was another time arms was dead and the worse spec in pvp,and no warriors are not dk s5 stupid atm. your dumb asses statements make you look like you dont know wtf your talking about,lmfao. comparing enchance SHAMANS to warriors in cata when shamans were the #1 healers i threw out the x-pac.he guys look fury warriors have low rep,they have less rep then rets do atm.so that means fury need buffs-yeah!see how dumb you sound.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 08:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I agree with the guy above, warriors are at DK season 5 levels of OP.... the class is damn near impossible to kite for more than 3 seconds, and when in trouble, go defense stance, and just keep letting second wind heal you. My big issue is that the first 65% of the fight with the warrior is totally different from the last 35%, where you need all of your CD's lined up to burst em, and if they have just one defensive CD you won't do enough damage or they'll disrupt it...
    so your saying its easy to get a warrior from 100% down to 35%,but the last 35% is hard to land a kill.and you want the last 35% of a warriors life to be easy as 100% to 35%.yeah thats makes since.i fell bad for you,all the good players just run in and pop cds,that sucks you actully have to play and save your cds for when your target is kill-able lmfao.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    This just in: warriors have been op for 9 seasons.

    Breaking news: low enhancement shaman rep means warriors were fine last season.

    We have clearly outline WHY these nerfs are over the top. You have provided absolutely nothing to counter our points except say "OMG WARRIORS ARE GOING TO BE SO OVERPOWERED" all while constantly slipping in "QQQQ WHY RET SO WEAK". We've also repeatedly given the reasons why ret is fine while your counterpoints have consisted entirely of "WTF DO YOU EVEN KNOW RET?!"
    Warriors had an option last season and come on now, are you seriously trying to defend the way things are now? DO you see how funny it looks?

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Miko View Post
    Warriors had an option last season and come on now, are you seriously trying to defend the way things are now? DO you see how funny it looks?
    what option did warriors have last season?to not play or tank rbgs?is that what your taking about?

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    what option did warriors have last season?to not play or tank rbgs?is that what your taking about?
    Damn, when u put it that way, it sounds really bad....oh wait, thats the same position ret is always in in rbg

    This just in: warriors have been op for 9 seasons.

    Breaking news: low enhancement shaman rep means warriors were fine last season.

    We have clearly outline WHY these nerfs are over the top. You have provided absolutely nothing to counter our points except say "OMG WARRIORS ARE GOING TO BE SO OVERPOWERED" all while constantly slipping in "QQQQ WHY RET SO WEAK". We've also repeatedly given the reasons why ret is fine while your counterpoints have consisted entirely of "WTF DO YOU EVEN KNOW RET?!"

    Dude, im not even trying to troll or be a dick, but honestly, dont u find something flawed in ur ret vs warrior arguement when its everyone but warriors who think theyre op, and practically everyone but the argueing warriors who think reta are underpowered?
    And u say u weve provided nothing to counter ur arguements, but ive said multiple times that ret offhealing=nerfed defensive stance(without the old rage regen) in the fact that it drastically hinders ur damage(and its always been like that for ret), but no one has a counter to that arguement
    Last edited by Sluggo; 2013-01-25 at 02:50 AM.

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