Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Rogue dps on Garalon

    We are working on Garalon 10 man normal and we aren't able to beat the enrage. This is probably due to our setup and our skill. We have three melee dps: enhancement shammy, frost dk and a rogue. The shammy and the dk are top dps, significantly out dps'ing the rest (around 100k). Unfortunately the rogue lags behind and but he is usually our top dps. I have been reading up on the fight and rogues should be very good if I read correct. I think he is doing something wrong, he pulls around 50k to 60k dps and doesn't seam to be able to profit from the dps buff the circles around the legs profide. He is also complaining he cannot use killing sprea. I do not know anything about rogue dps, but can you give us some tips on how to optimize rogue dps on that particular fight? He has combat and subtelty talents btw.

  2. #2
    Blademaster Livets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New York, US
    Posts
    34
    Well Sub will not help him on any raid encounter, it just does not have anything to offer to make it more beneficial than either of the other specs. If he is Combat, he should be going from leg to leg, standing inside the blue rings, and attacking the legs directly while cleaving the boss. He can damage the boss directly when legs are not up, or legs are being dragged through pools of pheromones. However, he should be turning Blade Flurry on and off a lot when on and off each leg. He should also be making the most of his CDs (other than KS) and burning those legs down. Killing Spree is only a small portion of our DPS and will not make him suffer greatly. Rogues can be in the top group of DPS for this fight. If he is usually on top for other fights, that's unusual because Rogues are not that great at the moment, but for fights such as this one, he should doing great. If he has any questions about his point of view, or rotation, he should post or message someone himself to find out what the problem is.

    -*Mersynd* - *Entensity* - *Stormscale US* - *Sig by Shyama*-

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    50-60k? As combat? Something is very wrong with this. I was pulling 117k as assassination in meh gear(485ish). As combat, even with shit weps, he should be 140ish if he is focusing on the legs, which all melee should be.

    He can killing spree if he uses it at max range on a leg but it's a bit iffy even then. All he really needs to do is turn on blade flurry, stand between the leg and the boss and go to town. If the legs you have melee focus on are dead then just turn off blade flurry and focus the boss. Leg respawns, blade flurry on, in between leg and boss, pew pew pew.

    Logs/Armory?

    Edit- If he is DPSing a leg he should be in the circles around them at all times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  4. #4
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    the desert
    Posts
    99
    Combat should be able to top damage on that fight over all specs. I haven't done normal in quite some time but for heroic to beat the enrage all the ranged stack in middle(other than the pheromone kiters) and just dps the boss full time and don't touch the legs other than on the pull. The melee should be the ones handling the legs / cleaving as they don't lose dps from moving. As combat you are actually able to use KS on that fight if you run a little bit out away from the boss and use it on the leg so it won't hop and spree to the boss and only stay on the leg. As long as a leg is up he should be on it ASAP.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Ayzee/advanced
    Arathian Knights US 3RD, recruiting for 25m! http://arathianknights.com/
    Ayzee#1222

  5. #5
    Assign the Rogue to 1 leg, say back left. After the first full clear to slow down the boss only the Rogue touches that back leg. This is because the Combat Rogue can double him damage (all damage going into leg also hits boss) while other classes can't do this, or do it less efficiently.

    A different tactic allows the Rogue to ignore legs and let him spec back to his main spec while simply zerging the boss, that's what I usually do.

  6. #6
    I don't even spec combat anymore, not worth the hassle to reforge out everytime. I stay Assa, nuke legs and at sub 35% switch to boss. Or stay on boss all time, legs just explode.

  7. #7
    I used to top around 170k being 490 combat. but ever since my raidgrp got more geared, the legs dies way too fast which means my dps drop. Now I barely do 140k

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CakeomgCake View Post
    I used to top around 170k being 490 combat. but ever since my raidgrp got more geared, the legs dies way too fast which means my dps drop. Now I barely do 140k
    This. The legs might be dying too fast for him to get decent cleaves out. I played combat on Garalon for a little, but the entire raid focused legs for the entire fight, so I barely did any blade flurry damage. I ended up switching to assassination for the fight and pulling a good amount more cause of the way better single target damage.

  9. #9
    I can guarantee you have an "LFR group" where everyone just nukes the legs and carries on with the boss. This is the worst strategy; your goal here is to maximize raid damage. You need 2 good DPS on the legs and the rest on the boss, these DPS must have "efficient" cleaves, whereby they lose no damage by cleaving. Rogues and warriors are the best for this, having strong cleaves that do little to impact the single target damage.

    I would advise against Killing spree if the rogue is doing 50-60k, no offense, he probably isn't amazing and will likely wipe the raid. Make sure he is standing between the leg and the boss AND is in the dotted rings. If he has any damage text addons, it should be clear when he is cleaving.

  10. #10
    Also Combat got nerfed really bad, as before 5.1 the double damage buff from the leg also applied to the body, which is no longer the case.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowtracks View Post
    Also Combat got nerfed really bad, as before 5.1 the double damage buff from the leg also applied to the body, which is no longer the case.
    well that was not a hard nerf tbh.... that was a fix since it was never intended to do that :P

  12. #12
    Is it possible to miss out on the cleaves if you are standing inside the circle? I'm barely doing 90k with 484 ish gear and although there's a dk doing 140k ish on the legs and sometiems casters are killing them too I have a feeling I should be doing way more. Rotationwise I think I'm good, I probably don't use KS as often as I could as I'm afraid of getting killed but otherwise I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

  13. #13
    It is possible to miss with your cleave. Make sure you are in between the boss' purple circle and the leg and you will get it every time. Also.. you can use killing spree on this fight. Just have him run away from the leg/boss about 5/10 yards (outside of the leg circle) and hit it, it should only hit his leg and it will also cleave it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Petraclese View Post
    It is possible to miss with your cleave. Make sure you are in between the boss' purple circle and the leg and you will get it every time. Also.. you can use killing spree on this fight. Just have him run away from the leg/boss about 5/10 yards (outside of the leg circle) and hit it, it should only hit his leg and it will also cleave it.
    Thanks. Is there a specific facing direction that's sort of prefered? As I think that might be my real problem. I know I can use KS on him it's just probably the lack of practice and my nerves .

  15. #15
    Blade flurry cleaves all around you, so if you are attacking leg and are close to garalon (the purple circle) you should be fine. Obviously you want to face the leg still so you can attack it

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I don't even spec combat anymore, not worth the hassle to reforge out everytime. I stay Assa, nuke legs and at sub 35% switch to boss. Or stay on boss all time, legs just explode.
    This, but I just throw on my highest ilvl weapons (510 Gara'kal and 510 Seven Stars dagger), throw on some off-spec gear that fill in the Hit/Exp cap requirement and go ham as Combat. Mind you, this is the ONLY fight that I do this for, since Mut is stronger for every other fight except Stone Guard.
    And even on SG-heroic I go Mut to practice for 5.2 Rupture-cleave (not exactly cleave, but still...).

    To the OP's query, any Rogue worth their salt should be pulling upwards of 140k on Garalon as Combat, regardless of if they have the weapons for Combat or not. If they are doing anything less, something seriously wrong is going on.
    Logs and armory would help a little, too.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  17. #17
    Focus on legs. blade flurry on, ALWAYS stay in the blue dotted circle. Take killing spree of your bar it's worthless for that fight but the cleave really makes a difference.

    i pulled 96k dps in ilvl 482 gear.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I don't even spec combat anymore, not worth the hassle to reforge out everytime. I stay Assa, nuke legs and at sub 35% switch to boss. Or stay on boss all time, legs just explode.
    Farm content is farm content, but you don't need to reforge for combat to beat assassination. Mastery is actually really good for BF situations and haste takes a bit of a hit from the fact that the energy regen penalty counts regen from haste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowtracks View Post
    Assign the Rogue to 1 leg, say back left. After the first full clear to slow down the boss only the Rogue touches that back leg. This is because the Combat Rogue can double him damage (all damage going into leg also hits boss) while other classes can't do this, or do it less efficiently.
    No, BF isn't that much of a gain anymore sorry. BF under normal conditions is a ~60% gain. Catch here is you are doing 200% damage to the leg but only 100% BF damage. So your actual gain from BF is still only 60% of your single target dps, but the 20% energy regen penalty hurts lowers your damage on your main target (pre modifier) under normal single target damage so it is costing you some dps which would in this case get doubled. Now BF is still incredibly good on that fight, but it isn't near what you are suggesting.


    @OP
    Anyway the real problem is simple. The rogue in question is absolutely horrible unless he is tanking or kiting. The OP doesn't mention tanking and having a melee kite is kinda silly if you can avoid it so I'm going to assume that isn't the case. 50-60k dps? Killing spree lets say is worth a 20% dps gain over not using it (which it isn't even remotely close to that), your rogue is pulling 60-72k dps if he can killing spree. His single target dps on a non damage gimmick encounter should be at least 80k in a hodge podge of 471 blue dungeon gear, 476/483 lfr gear, and 489 msv gear (that number is also probably a little low). In this case you have a damage gimmick allowing him at least partial time at double damage, and definitely at least enough time in the opener to get double damage on his AR/SB cooldowns. Thats even if he doesn't even touch his blade flurry button.

    This isn't a case where you need to worry about their strat and his uptime on legs. Sure that might be why he is at 100k versus 140k or whatever, but in this case there is a far more serious problem.

    At his current dps point, if he is pulling decent numbers as sub (something like 80k+) just tell him to play that if he can't learn combat because you shouldn't do less dps on this fight than tank and spank unless you are kiting or tanking so he would at least pull 80k.

    Oh and you can tell him that you can in fact killing spree garalon's legs. I just used it 4 times or so on our heroic kill last night and nothing bad happened. He simply needs to be out of KS range on garalon's body and in range of a leg when he hits it, and when it ends be ready to move out of the way if the boss is moving your way (you have ample time). Him using it or not isn't a major concern, but if he is whining because he "can't" he is wrong.
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2013-01-22 at 01:07 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    And even on SG-heroic I go Mut to practice for 5.2 Rupture-cleave (not exactly cleave, but still...).
    Same for me - i find more fun to practice a new playstyle instead of respeccing for pressing an i-win button. Sorry combat fans, but i find the spec extremely boring and too tied to a single ability.

  20. #20
    What I do on my rogue on 10 man normal garalon.

    If there is a leg up, you should be on the leg.
    Stand as close to the boss with blade flurry up while hitting the leg inside the zone. You want SnD up BEFORE you go on the leg so you dont lose dps by enabling it before going on it. If there is no leg up, hit the boss, pool energy and watch the timer for next mend leg. Of course dont keep your energy at 100, but near it. You want a 35 sec SnD off the boss before shadowstepping to the leg and then you go ham on it. Get anticipation if you like to mash buttons, or versatility for no RD CD if you're confident in CP management.

    You need to be CLOSE to the boss while cleaving. Like on the border to the purpl circle.

    I usually pull 130k+ in 490 gear. Leg dies so fast with fury warr and me on the leg with a dps horny boomkin multidotting everything spamming instant starsurges into legs :P

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •