GC contradicting himself

[D3athsting]

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...91204245626881

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...38746740162560

According to 1st tweet warlock has been revamped coz none played it, in the 2nd tweet he says that rogue (by far the least played class atm) doesn't need an overhaul...
In short terms: none plays lock and lock gets revamped, none plays rogue and rogue gets band-aid fixes and is FINE

[Kael]

Read the full explanations and it should make more sense. Rogues DON'T have a serious identity crisis, although I think our specs do.

I'm not really sure that warlocks lacked identity before, but they've got a definite class sense now? We might see an overhaul that changes lots of abilities, where the warlock overhaul changed EVERYTHING. Almost no ability remained untouched, every resource was changed significantly (including new resources), and they used the talent trees to widen the options available to each spec.

Rogues need changes. I don't think we need to be built from the ground up again, just... major changes.

[Deleted]

*none plays lock, partially due to lack of identity, lock gets revamped.
*none plays rogue, which has plenty of identity, but in need of changes, not a massive overhaul. Rogue doesnt get revamped.

This is how I read it. Also makes sense to me..

[Sealed]

What's so hard to understand about "We don't think they need a lock-level overhaul" ? Where is the contradiction ?

[Deleted]

Warlocks suffered from major rotational problems and from spec identity. They really did need that revamp, whether people played them or not.

Now, as GC himself states, rogues do need some kind of rotational revamp, but the conceptual background of each spec is still somewhat sound. Personally, I disagree with that statement(at least in regards to Subtlety), but to each his own I suppose. He clearly expresses that there's a problem though.

[Deleted]

Ok there fine now the locks, revamp complet np they kill in all pve/p, but how about making rogue what is was as in equal atleast in dps, survival to other classes........... its a disgrace hot dead the specs are now, all feel similar in play, and dodgeis a joke, heal still not even compared to other classes, subt the painnnnnnnnn back stab extra dps required to the position is a dead joke, its gone no more 30% happynes, the dps in general in a simple bg is gone dead, just reput the survival back and make dps what it was compared to the curent op classes as fucking hellll dont revamp us now, dont make op np just put back the balls you took away thats all.

[checking facts]

rogues need a revamp on their specs to make them different from each other. right now all you do is to choose which font of passive damage will do more damage. a class where all their 3 specs do exactly the same thing should at least get to choose among 3 different ways to do it.

[Tenjen]

all i see is that rogues do need a revamp but not a full overhaul on level with what warlocks got

[OneSent]

I think before MoP, the devs were pretty set on their decision concerning rogues. This was admitted by GC, I believe, near the end of Cata.

But after the months of complaining that our class is now boring, slow, uninteresting or that all our specs feel the same, I think we will see some pretty drastic changes coming for the next expansion. Maybe not on the level of warlocks, but something along the lines of what warriors received.

I wouldn't be surprised if they already have some rough ideas going on in the studio. I have always been against changing rogues, but the more I think about it, the prospect is actually kind of exciting.

[LilSaihah]

...I would definitely say Rogues lack a strong identity and aren't very well populated. I guess I think GC's wrong? He's not contradicting his own opinions, he's just Ye Olde incorrect.

We have shadow stuff, we have poison, we have hitting people. Each spec kinda sorta focuses on one each but not to any significant degree; probably because shadow stuff is tied to mobility/survival which all rogues need, and poison is just something that happens in the background and you don't need to pay attention to, minus Shiv.

[Airwaves]

See this is what he means by players reading to much into a tiny tweet. All he said is Rogues don't need a full revamp. Which is true they just need some sprucing up. I still believe no matter what they do not many people will play a rogue. Alot of people kind of shy away from stealth classes in every rpg style game. But as you can see by my sig i love them

[Pull My Finger]

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...91204245626881

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...38746740162560

According to 1st tweet warlock has been revamped coz none played it, in the 2nd tweet he says that rogue (by far the least played class atm) doesn't need an overhaul...
In short terms: none plays lock and lock gets revamped, none plays rogue and rogue gets band-aid fixes and is FINE

You can't read. It says a clear as day that they don't think that rogues need that much of an overhaul like warlocks did. You can disagree with that. But there's nothing contradictory in his statements.

[Mefistophelis]

Rogues are just fine . It's just that most legendary-wielding op-as-hell rogues decided to reroll cause from early beta even late beta rogues were low on damage .

[Deleted]

being in need of improvement and being in need of a revamp are two different and very distinct things

[checking facts]

being in need of improvement and being in need of a revamp are two different and very distinct things

nothing short of a revamp will help rogues with the things that keep them unpopular, which are "boring gameplay based on watching timers while your toon does everything", "specs all the same" and "lame aesthetics".

inb4 "rogues don't have to shine like a Christmas tree on every attack like paladins, they need to be subtle" - you can be subtle without being lame. some simple ability effects to put reinforce the idea of speed like afterimages, movement lines, et cetera.

[Kael]

nothing short of a revamp will help rogues with the things that keep them unpopular, which are "boring gameplay based on watching timers while your toon does everything", "specs all the same" and "lame aesthetics".

inb4 "rogues don't have to shine like a Christmas tree on every attack like paladins, they need to be subtle" - you can be subtle without being lame. some simple ability effects to put reinforce the idea of speed like afterimages, movement lines, et cetera.

I think people underestimate how much changed with the warlock revamp, or just don't think about it. The only warlock spec that treats mana the same way is affliction (it drains, and you life tap it back). The other two specs got completely new RESOURCE concepts, although I'd argue Destruction's ManEnergy is a more appropriate regen than ours is now. Combo points work, even if the things we use to generate them and use them feel off, and energy works, with the same reservations. We don't need a new resource system, and I'd argue we don't need to be built from the ground up.

Each spec could use work, sure, but that's going to involve smaller changes than what happened with warlocks. Warlocks went back to the drawing board with "they have dots, and maybe pets," where we have a lot more identity and the directions our individual specs can (and should) be changed towards are already on the table. Moving passive damage to active isn't a revamp, it's number changes. Adding visuals still isn't a revamp, it's adding visuals. Changing the gameplay and specs is about tweaking and adding or removing a few abilities, not rebuilding the class.

[D3athsting]

I played lock in cata and i play it now, must say all specs play very differently involve good resource management and knowledge of the fight, you actually have to know when to stack resources and when to burn them (possibly aligning them with trinket procs/bl/on-use trinket), destro became a more playable spec thant it was in cata were u had to keep an eye on too many buffs/debuffs (like subt rogue) and its rotation involved many keybinds, affliction on the other side became more enjoyable with pandemic and dots that have to be manually refreshed, demo is a bit more complex but i overall think lock is in a good place now gameplay wise, honestly i think we'll see Titan's release before rogue revamp.

[Lemons]

you can be subtle without being lame. some simple ability effects to put reinforce the idea of speed like afterimages, movement lines, et cetera.

Agreed. And warriors illustrate that you can have a physical class (i.e. no magic) that is still very showy. I mean their glyphs make them leave trials of fire and catch on fire and all this craziness. I think rogues could stand to have some of that. Shadow Blades' spell effect still looks pathetic, and I don't think even added a spell effect for Shadow Walk.

[checking facts]

I think people underestimate how much changed with the warlock revamp, or just don't think about it.

my main is a warlock. I still feel the same basics of the classic warlock in each spec, yet they now have personality and uniqueness. you DoT, you use your pet and you nuke, except on affliction, where you don't nuke, you channel.

mana and soul shards for everybody used to work, but new resources made the spec choice more interesting. I feel (and this is my own personal opinion) that combo points should stay on combat, assassination should gain a toxicity resource system that interacts with poisons (and would make the spec less passive), and subtlety should get something else that interacts with shadow dance.

in my head, it doesn't make sense for an assassin to keep doing combo attacks on the target lol

[Nosferato]

his reason was that lots played mages very few played locks, tons of ppl play ret/warriors, rogues are even less played than warlocks ever was, rogues lack spec identity, just as warlocks did, but i fear this is coming donw once again to rogues getting as much changes as they got for mop to the next expac, wich means the class will always be behind the rest. still stuck in vanilla/tbc.