1. #1

    Krasarang Wilds PVP analysis

    I have been doing some research and examination of the setup in Krasarang. I will admit that I really like the idea of blending pve and pvp in the way this zone attempts to do. I think the world pvp clashes have tons of potential for fun. However the implementation is just terribly skewed towards the horde in this conflict in my eyes. Not sure if anyone will see this or care. And I am open to other interpretations so long as they have some thought behind them and amount to more than simple "UMAD" b.s. Here is what I see that just seems completely unbalanced.

    1. The Orduei Shrine bottleneck vs. the Blacksand oilfield. This is far and away the most obvious inconsistency. It is just terrible. One is defensible from two sides, closed from air attack. totally blocks off a pve objective, and is just a perfect ambush spot. The other is wide open, indefensible, and of virtually no strategic importance other than the buff it grants. Horde doing their dailys can simply avoid the oilfield if it is camped by ally. On the other hand Ally will round a corner and face plant into horde guards that see through stealth, ignore Feign Death, shadowmeld, and invis. The unlucky ally can either let the guard kill them or they can fight the guards and get jumped by waiting horde. Blatant, plain, unbalance favoring horde.

    2. Lions Landing GY vs Domination Point GY. DPGY is situated directly adjacent to the horde base. It is covered by an anti aircraft gun and multiple archers stationed less than ten yards away. Horde NPCs with three quarters of a million health patroll within feet of it. And when the horde spawn guards on it they are tightly packed covering the whole GY. LLGY on the other hand is a good hundred yards from ally archers. The patrolling NPCS near there have less than 400k health and patroll far enough from the GY that they are not even a concern. And the three spawned guards are so spread out that one can literally cap the GY without even agroing them!

    3. Perhaps worst of all are the towers. LLT is situated by a mass of over a hundred horde NPCs. Any horde attempting to take it can simply retreat into the NPCs should he face strong resistance. If the Ally are foolish enough to give chase they will end up with ten or twenty horde NPCs on them by the time they get the horde down, IF they get the horde down. Likewise any Ally guards placed on the tower can be kited into the NPCs and dispatched with little trouble. DPT has no such mass of nearby ally forces. There are a few paratroopers on the beach, but they are busy fighting an equal number of horde forces there and will do little if anything to help. However DPT is surrounded ONCE AGAIN on its northeast by lots of open HORDE npcs ready and willing to lend a hand dispatching any ally guards or players a hordie might kite into them.

    With all that being said, I am encouraged to see steps in the direction of integrated world PVP. There is much fun to be had here. Shades of old tauren mill standoffs are brought to mind. However having this potentially great content skewed (in my interpretation at least) so blatantly towards one side is extremely depressing. Hopefully Blizz will take this to heart in their design of any future content. Furthermore should anyone have differing interpretations of the situation I am open to hearing them. Thanks for your time.

  2. #2
    I play both horde and alliance and honestly didn't notice any major advantages to either side.

    They definitely wanted to try to promote world pvp, but I think it fell a bit flat overall - at least on the servers I play on.

    The new 5.2 zone, on the other hand, looks really good though. No flying mounts and you have to enter through a portal so hopefully that can spark some world pvp the same way tol barad and isle of quel'danas did.

  3. #3
    Only area I like to gank horde.

    Let's be honest, the area is an actual open world battleground. If you're there, it's not for a picknick and you WILL die, so do yourself a favor and not do any dailies there if you don't have some decent pvp gear on.

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Kasperio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Utopia.
    Posts
    1,486
    Playing Horde, I have to agree with you. It does'nt feel as glorious when you defeat an opponent who's aggroed 10 of your NPC's anyways while his own guards are miles away in most instances. And countless times I've taken Lions Landing GY without ever touching the guards there, let alone the patrolling ones.

    So yeah, it's shaped in very strong Horde favor, but hey.. it means I get my tasks done faster, even if the cost is a little pride. I would rather encourage Alliance players in Krasarang to just take extra pride when they defeat a Horde? I mean, you're often starting the battle as an underdog geographically in the zone with disadvantages around every corner, that should make any victory sweet enough to compensate for 10x defeats, right? =)

    Stay positive and enjoy the little triumphs! They're the one that REALLY counts
    Enough with bashing eachother, guys.. This community is still young and needs to grow up and show that not everyone are jerks. We're gamers and we enjoy games, don't bash eachother over what games they like or their oppinions, but don't let them bash others either. We need to come together and stand up, as a community, and help eachother out by being respectful and understanding. Please.

  5. #5
    Pit Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Right here, right now
    Posts
    2,358
    never died there , never encountered any resistance or whatever... prolly cause im on pve realm ^^

  6. #6
    Another thing that is overlooked is that not only is DPT able to be guarded by 4 Tower Guards, it is also the spawn point for the rogue rare spawn. I have had the misfortune of fighting a pair of horde in the tower, and had the rare spawn pop during the fight, and I died to a Mortal Throw.

    While all your points are true, it really doesn't mean anything in the long run. The plan to make Krasarang a pvp hotspot didn't do much more than the other daily zones, where you are simply consolidated into the same questing area as the other faction. With flying being an option, you can just opt out of the PvP most of the time by just flying to the other end of the questing area, attempt to drop combat and fly away if you're attacked, or worst case scenario, res and pop on your flying mount if you're being camped and just finish your dailies later. My favorite set of dailies were those inside the mine, where fleeing on a flying mount was not an option, and if the opposite faction did not contest the objective, I had a ground mount to hunt people down on, and they had to flee on foot.

    Otherwise the zone was mostly dead save at prime hours during the day when it first came out. It's a graveyard now that everyone has finished the quest chain and hit exalted. So yeah, while blizzard may have skewed the positioning of objectives in krasarang, it really didn't matter much, considering the idea to make it a pvp hub flopped.

    But as stated in the previous post, there is some good news with the new daily island coming out in 5.2, being flying mount restricted like quel danas/tol barad/molten front. Should fire up old world pvp flames and get people back to killing each other.

  7. #7
    Blizz has no idea what motivates PVP players, so they will always mix in dumb NPCs and quests and whatnot as a "carrot". Just accept it.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Blutelf View Post
    Blizz has no idea what motivates PVP players, so they will always mix in dumb NPCs and quests and whatnot as a "carrot". Just accept it.
    The pvp players are the wolves. The questers are the sheep. The wolves can't eat the sheep if the sheep have no reason to go out in the woods.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Khronius View Post
    The pvp players are the wolves. The questers are the sheep. The wolves can't eat the sheep if the sheep have no reason to go out in the woods.
    That's precisely why Blizz has always failed to implement decent World PvP. They think that World PvP means ganking; they're confusing PvP with PK. But at the same time they don't want the PvEers they lured into their crappy zones to get frustrated from getting ganked by T2 PKers too much, so they put in ridiculous guards. And of course they rarely, if ever, upgrade the zone so that it becomes useless for PvE progress at some point, at which it will be abandoned.

  10. #10
    Not sure if this is fixed or anything but back when this area was released I got dismounted by NPCs on my horde character in the alliance area whereas the other way around all they were doing was keeping me in combat.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  11. #11
    some of these points might be relevent if

    a. the horde anti aircraft guns actually did damage. they don't
    b. the horde guards actually had the same aggro radius as the alliance guards. they don't.
    c. the horde guards actually dismounted like the alliance guards do. they don't.
    d. the alliance tower guards didn't have three to four times as much hp as the horde guards. they do
    e. the zone buff wasn't calculated off server population instead of proximity population. it is.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral De Lupe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Buildin' a sentry!
    Posts
    1,134
    That feeling when you're glad PvE servers don't force PvP into your dailies.

    I enjoy PvP as much as the next guy, but boy am I glad I left Daggerspine before this patch hit. I'd never get my dailies done.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    That feeling when you're glad PvE servers don't force PvP into your dailies.

    I enjoy PvP as much as the next guy, but boy am I glad I left Daggerspine before this patch hit. I'd never get my dailies done.
    Blizzard was also happy to grab your 20 EUR or USD in the process everyone is happy, a rare moment to cherish!
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    a. the horde anti aircraft guns actually did damage. they don't
    Has been fixed.
    b. the horde guards actually had the same aggro radius as the alliance guards. they don't.
    They do have the same range, played on both sides.
    c. the horde guards actually dismounted like the alliance guards do. they don't.
    Again, they do have the same daze.
    d. the alliance tower guards didn't have three to four times as much hp as the horde guards. they do
    e. the zone buff wasn't calculated off server population instead of proximity population. it is.
    The guards have more health because your side has more people on it, it's the same for me where Horde is absolutely dominating in numbers. It's not just affecting the buff but also the guards.


    All in all I have to agree. The Horde positioning is far superior, had to come to know that when doing the Alliance side so I could see the story. The rare spawning in the tower is where the guards are is completly idiotic, sadly he's also the ONLY one where the Alliance has a chance to kill him without Horde meddling.

    Killed the Alliance ones mostly without any problems. The Dwarf is tucked away in a corner right next to the wall and after the castle. Alliance passing by will most of the time not even notice you. The Nelf is the only one where Alliance does pass by altough there is no reason for them to dismount there and has the highest chance to notice you. The rogue is in a corner of Lions Landing where Alliance has no reason to go, ever.

    One of the Horde one's is right NEXT to the Horde base (muerta), you can actually see the fighting from the base and most of the time trying to kill this one will bring hell down upon you. The Orc is right in the exit gate where all the Horde passes by, everytime I went to the dailys I took that exact route. The Troll is the only one remotely hidden, but placed atop an important objective still in a quest zone AND often guarded by 4 elites.

    The whole thing is just badly flawed. But it's not like that's something new. Remember Tol barad? I could easily pass the Alliance blockade, couldn't do the same with the Horde one as Alliance. The Graveyard at the Horde side was right next to the base, the Alliance one had an wall right next to it making camping it easy also the guards were bugged for months.
    AB, Silvershard Mine, Twin Peaks, a lot of other places. There is a reason why most of my characters are and will always be Horde. Everyone should do so. People could just get "transmogged" for Battlegrounds the same way it happens in Stratholme.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Has been fixed.

    They do have the same range, played on both sides.

    Again, they do have the same daze.

    The guards have more health because your side has more people on it, it's the same for me where Horde is absolutely dominating in numbers. It's not just affecting the buff but also the guards.
    no, no, and no. sorry, none of these things have been fixed.

    i've checked all these things multiple times. i also play both sides.

    it doesn't matter that my side has more people on it when all those people are sitting in the shrine and the entirety of ruinious has camped out in the horde base. 48 horde in zone, over 100 alliance. alliance still has the 25% buff. the buff should be calculated by proximity to the tower, not by server population.
    Last edited by kosechi; 2013-01-20 at 07:43 PM.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  16. #16
    Wait, what.

    the horde guards actually dismounted like the alliance guards do. they don't.
    The horde guards never dismounted my alliance player. But as soon as I flew near the alliance base on my horde character I always got dismounted. I was able to skip a shitload of content on my alliance character (which was also quite good geared) but on my freshly dinged horde character I got insta dismounted and quickly killed.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  17. #17
    Reading through this thread, I'm starting to believe that either Metzen or the Blizzard CEO has rerolled alliance.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Wait, what.

    The horde guards never dismounted my alliance player. But as soon as I flew near the alliance base on my horde character I always got dismounted. I was able to skip a shitload of content on my alliance character (which was also quite good geared) but on my freshly dinged horde character I got insta dismounted and quickly killed.
    wat. horde guards don't dismount, alliance guards do. its really annoying.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  19. #19
    Grunt Rubbaducky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Posts
    14
    Don't forget the secondary GY is virtually next door to the Alliance base.

    Coming from a server where Horde is heavily outnumbered by the Alliance, it is a rare day indeed where the oilfield, Horde GY and Horde tower aren't Alliance controlled. If an Alliance takes it into their head to come gank me, I have an exceptionally long run if the GY guards are killed and the GY capped while I'm out and about. TBH I also find the Ogudei shrine point to be the exact opposite of what you find it to be. As I'm Horde, while I can portal directly into the shine, I have to go through all the tunnels, fighting my way past every linked mob in there just to capture it. And tbh it's just not worth it.

    As for the rares, one is just on the edge of a major group of Alliance guards. Get that pull wrong or you don't clear enough space and you're in a whole heap of trouble. And indeed let's not forget you get shot down by the flying guards if you go anywhere near the keep/above a certain altitude. The other two are reasonably accessable assuming you don't get shot down beforehand. Oh and those Paladin guards (Vindicators?) are a PITA. They just won't DIE.

  20. #20
    In my opinion all the dailys should be either attacking the enemy base or defending your own.
    At the same time your enemy should have dailys to both defend and attack.
    So alliance always defends when the horde attacks and vice versa.

    As it is right now this is not the case atall. Far to many gathering quests, and the areas the horde/alliance dailys are in are often far away from each other.
    99% of the time the faction who control's the towers/gys only depends on what dailys the horde/alliance have that day.
    That is my main problem with Krasarang.

    In other words I want all the dailys to involve human players from the opposing faction rather than npcs, like wintergrasp only with a ton of different dailys.
    Last edited by Ettan; 2013-01-20 at 08:49 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •