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  1. #1361
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    That's why a tipping jar works good. You simply work hard, treat the customer with respect, and he may or may not tip. You don't have to fight over who's going to get which customer because in the end all waitresses have mutual interest in getting tip for the pot.

    You're basically playing divide and conquer with your customers and worse it isn't communicated clearly who's winning.
    The problem with the tip jar is that its subsidizing the lower end servers. Why should someone work harder than another person when they are just going to get the same amount in the end?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    So let me get this straight. If I just order a pizza from a different pizzeria every time, then I won't get a bad name as a bad tipper, and I can just save myself the 10-15%. In half a year you forgot I didn't tip (I was very polite) and I can order again.
    Yeah, you could get away with that in most places. That's why when I delivered I started a record keeping system for other drivers. I assume they still use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    By the way did you ever get to deliver 20 pizzas to someone and when you arrived at the address and they opened the door they didn't order anything? You expect that to be a prank don't you? Might've been that angry customer who got a cold pizza with spit in it.
    I never said I spit in anything. But no, we never got something like that.

  2. #1362
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I've been both places and I see no fundamental difference in the net outcomes. The route that we get there is different, but the outcome is essentially the same.
    No, it isn't because in your system the tip is socially enforced. It is expected. The height isn't, and you use that apparently to influence the way you treat the customer.

    Here, if I notice I am being discriminated its very simple I go to the competitor. You may argue you don't need me, well I really don't think so in this day and age of recession.

    And if I had a good month in my company and I got treated well then yeah you'll get a tip. If I don't feel like it for whatever reason, you won't get one, but since you're not expecting it at all you're still humble.

    So no, the outcome isn't the same. Financially maybe, but the psychology is different. In your case the employees have much more power. I rather see a boss take responsibility of his business and whip his employees a lil' bit more (not bad thing to do with a bunch of teenagers). Heck, you know stuff like employee of the month, that's a good way to play your employees against each other, and show new ones a role model.

    At no point did I suggest ignoring anyone. I'm emphasizing that this is a triage situation - two people have essentially equal "right" to getting service at a given second. Every single person is going to the tipper first. You know that's true, it's why you invented the "ghost" situation instead of addressing the actual hypothetical.
    There is no such thing as both customers being ready at the exact same time, and you know that's true. Else, I'd move towards the one closest to at the place I am standing, only to save time. Why? The fellow who always tips, will tip anyway.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  3. #1363
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    I've already admitted I've never been to a bar, why pay someone $8 for something I can serve myself in the comfort of my own home for 1/4 of the price? And, I don't have to tip to get service, either.
    The price really depends where you are. Putting that aside, some people (many people even!) like social settings.

  4. #1364
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahknaten View Post
    Alot of people seem to be seeing the tip as paying the wage of the worker when its not the case, (in the US). The tip is paying for the extra service you get from the waiter or waitress, such as running around to get every little extra thing or request someone has, or keeping their drink full. These are extras, if you dont want these things or want to tip, then go to a drivethru window and get your food and go.
    Please explain to me what a waiter/waitresses job is, if not doing those things? Are they paid their wage by their employer just to clear their busy schedules and show up to stand around?
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  5. #1365
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    No, it isn't because in your system the tip is socially enforced. It is expected. The height isn't, and you use that apparently to influence the way you treat the customer.

    Here, if I notice I am being discriminated its very simple I go to the competitor. You may argue you don't need me, well I really don't think so in this day and age of recession.

    And if I had a good month in my company and I got treated well then yeah you'll get a tip. If I don't feel like it for whatever reason, you won't get one, but since you're not expecting it at all you're still humble.

    So no, the outcome isn't the same. Financially maybe, but the psychology is different. In your case the employees have much more power. I rather see a boss take responsibility of his business and whip his employees a lil' bit more (not bad thing to do with a bunch of teenagers). Heck, you know stuff like employee of the month, that's a good way to play your employees against each other, and show new ones a role model.
    I'd say the employees have more power in a system where the know the customer isn't going to be able to penalize or reward them.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    There is no such thing as both customers being ready at the exact same time, and you know that's true. Else, I'd move towards the one closest to at the place I am standing, only to save time. Why? The fellow who always tips, will tip anyway.
    I find it really hard to believe you frequent bars. It's not like you walk up and slap the bar and say, "first!". People walk up, frequently arrive at the same time while others are being served, and you have sort of a fake place in nonexistant line. The priority is always going to go to the guy that's not tight with cash; this is pretty well known in the States, I don't really get why people are arguing it.

  6. #1366
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    It's bullshit simple because you should not be required to report your tips as they are not wages, they are customer offered gratuity and the people who decided to tax tips were complete slime buckets.
    The minute I can not report 4/5 of my wages as taxes is the day waitresses can. Even though they mostly don't report them, anyway.
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  7. #1367
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post
    The problem with the tip jar is that its subsidizing the lower end servers. Why should someone work harder than another person when they are just going to get the same amount in the end?
    First, in say grocery store, its all logged you know who works how long where and such. And grocery store is also a type of service (doubt you tip there, right?). However because the boss is also working in the pub, and if the boss notices a waiter who's slacking, why even attempt to do that?

    Yeah, you could get away with that in most places. That's why when I delivered I started a record keeping system for other drivers. I assume they still use it.
    Wow really you did? Awesome. If you'd do that here and your boss would find that out, you'd be fired. If customer would know about it, you could get successfully sued (and they don't really do much plea bargin in Europe). Wanna know why? It is against privacy law to record customer data like that. You're not allowed to process it either. Only for purpose strictly related to your job. Now I know your country doesn't take privacy always very strict so I don't know how its there with the privacy laws ...

    I never said I spit in anything. But no, we never got something like that.
    OK, you didn't, various of the other MMOC waiters/servers/drivers though.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  8. #1368
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    This statement right here is exactly why I don't like tipping.

    Instead of giving everyone excellent service because it's your job, you hold people hostage with shitty service because they don't give you what you want.
    Yeah, fuck that noise.

    If that shit happens to me, guaranteed their boss will get so sick to death of hearing my voice he'll make things happen.

    Do your fucking jobs and do them right, with a fucking smile and all this indignation. Maybe then you'd be worth tipping.
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  9. #1369
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Ah, karma. Maybe karma was being a bitch to OP in this very situation instead of karma going to pay back to OP eventually. How would you know?
    I don't! But I'd like to think OP didn't do anything to deserve such crappy karma unless proven otherwise.

    Of course you are right however.

  10. #1370
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The price really depends where you are. Putting that aside, some people (many people even!) like social settings.

    Nothing wrong with going to the bar if that's what gets you going, I was merely pointing out why I've never been.

  11. #1371
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    First, in say grocery store, its all logged you know who works how long where and such. And grocery store is also a type of service (doubt you tip there, right?). However because the boss is also working in the pub, and if the boss notices a waiter who's slacking, why even attempt to do that?
    I've worked at a grocery store too. We did get tips once in a while but we were told to refuse them. In the bosses eye he was paying you a proper wage and a tip was insulting him. Restaurant owners do not feel the same way.

    Also, you would be surprised what most bosses don't notice in terms of how hard employees work.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Wow really you did? Awesome. If you'd do that here and your boss would find that out, you'd be fired.
    Mine thought it was awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    If customer would know about it, you could get successfully sued (and they don't really do much plea bargin in Europe).
    Wanna know why? It is against privacy law to record customer data like that. You're not allowed to process it either. Only for purpose strictly related to your job. Now I know your country doesn't take privacy always very strict so I don't know how its there with the privacy laws ...
    Yeah that isn't illegal here. Also it is related to the job.

    Customers might not like it because we referred to their homes as trailer parks.

    Edit: Crap, just remembered. Apparently my old store switched to a different POS system and all that data was lost

    I'm sure the individual drivers still keep track of who tips and doesn't.
    Last edited by Extrazero8; 2013-01-21 at 10:02 PM.

  12. #1372
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I'd say the employees have more power in a system where the know the customer isn't going to be able to penalize or reward them.
    Isn't that what tips are at their core, a penalty/reward system?

    But here it'd be more like, you don't like it boy? Go run your own place.

    I find it really hard to believe you frequent bars. It's not like you walk up and slap the bar and say, "first!". People walk up, frequently arrive at the same time while others are being served, and you have sort of a fake place in nonexistant line. The priority is always going to go to the guy that's not tight with cash; this is pretty well known in the States, I don't really get why people are arguing it.
    ..not frequent bars.. hahaha, mate, pretty soon the whole city here has pubs open 24/7 with people running on the street completely drunk with clothes you can't imagine. All that for week+. Its called carnaval.

    Tho I prefer wine lets say I'm up for a beer. Pubs are pretty expensive (carnaval is my major yearly exception), and some good German beer on sale in a crate or cans is much, much cheaper and I know exactly what I'm drinking and its according to German purity law.

    Anyway... pubs... I'm well aware of the nonexistant line. But I'm also well aware that, even with my perhaps limited pub experience, customers will complain if treated unfairly. So yes, Spectral you can give a regular customer, or your tip-suspect, priority once and I won't say shit, people make mistakes, etc. But if such thing happens again you'll hear me complain and if you don't bring up some damn good reason you lost a customer and you got yourself some drama in your pub. And that's the thing here. You don't wanna piss off half drunk customers. You wanna treat 'em with respect. If you don't, your boss easily has another gorgeous waitress working for him.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  13. #1373
    150 pizzas worth 1300$ and not giving a single penny as a tip? Seems wrong to me, I understand if it was 1-10 and not giving tip, that would be fine. But 150 and not a SINGLE penny? Like common... Imagine how many trips this guy must have done to deliver them, Gas is expensive in the USA. They could spend 1300$ but not a single dollar or penny for the driver at least? Its like Running Raids in WoW for like 2 months and not getting a single item. It wouldn't hurt to spend an extra 1$.

  14. #1374
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post
    Also, you would be surprised what most bosses don't notice in terms of how hard employees work.
    Then they're shit bosses living in a reality distortion field. A good boss takes note of his employees, but also, sometimes they trust the employee and give them some temporary liberty. Still he should realize you work for him and not for yourself which means he must keep the checks and balances. Your problem is easily fixed: talk to him, switch to another, or start your own business. Speaking from experience here. If your boss doesn't recognize how hard you're working its time to look for another job.

    Mine thought it was awesome.
    Clearly in the land of the free the customer isn't king, he has to bribe the waiter.

    Yeah that isn't illegal here.
    One more reason not to have your data served by an American cloud.

    Also it is related to the job.
    No its not. You wouldn't get away with that. Did the customer ask you to use that? Is it strictly used to serve him a correct deliverty? Nope.

    Customers might not like it because we referred to their homes as trailer parks.
    Yeah, but not in their face, and yet here if a customer wants to, they can ask a company "please show me all the personal data you have gathered about me" and you know what? They have to comply. Hard to fathom, isn't it.

    Either way, thanks for the chat, I am more glad than ever I live on this side of the pond.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 11:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Damdwarf View Post
    150 pizzas worth 1300$ and not giving a single penny as a tip? Seems wrong to me, I understand if it was 1-10 and not giving tip, that would be fine. But 150 and not a SINGLE penny? Like common... Imagine how many trips this guy must have done to deliver them, Gas is expensive in the USA. They could spend 1300$ but not a single dollar or penny for the driver at least? Its like Running Raids in WoW for like 2 months and not getting a single item. It wouldn't hurt to spend an extra 1$.
    Btw we don't even know if this was a bulk/volume discount or a deal they made with the boss or anything like it. We just don't know the details. Does OP even know them, another good question..
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  15. #1375
    Btw we don't even know if this was a bulk/volume discount or a deal they made with the boss or anything like it. We just don't know the details. Does OP even know them, another good question..
    Good point...more than possible the customer thought tip was included (but should have found out for certain). Although it is also equally possible that the customer KNEW tip wasn't included, but just didn't give a crap.

    Also possible is that OP's boss pocketed the "tip", which is hidden in the receipt edits. Happens often, restaurant mangers are shady as hell.

    Example: Worst restaurant job I ever had--high end Italian restaurant, Zagat rated and on top 10 lists for the city, whole thing. Boss was a total asshole to staff. Yelling, screaming at busboys, back of house staff, spent most of his time at work chatting up the 20 year olds he was somehow dating at the age of 50 something (yes he was dating more than one at once). Had a prix fixe event with 9 courses including wine pairings that was a low price for that place, $175 per person, automatic $35 gratuity added per person. 5 waitstaff, 2 bussers to pool tips and divide evenly, boss was to collect monies and divide tips.

    We had at least 200 people come in that night, and that is a conservative estimate. Worked our asses off, helped with cleanup and dishwashing til 3 am. 200 ppl x 35 gratuity = $7,000 in tips, to be divided between 7 people.

    Next day we come in for our tips, hands each of us $75. This was in a state where you made $3 an hour on top of your tips, no full minimum wage state like California, and we had worked around 14 hours that day doing setup and cleanup. And restaurant work is hard work.

    Probably could have sued but this was the most beaten-down group of servers I had ever seen and the industry just sucks sometimes.

    Story had a happy ending though, ended up getting a great bartending gig my last year of college downtown and was walking with a minimum of $500 a night on weekends. Bartending is underrated as a profession, you can make a lot of money doing it and it can be fun work.

  16. #1376
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Then they're shit bosses living in a reality distortion field. A good boss takes note of his employees, but also, sometimes they trust the employee and give them some temporary liberty. Still he should realize you work for him and not for yourself which means he must keep the checks and balances. Your problem is easily fixed: talk to him, switch to another, or start your own business. Speaking from experience here. If your boss doesn't recognize how hard you're working its time to look for another job.
    The employee does work for the owner. However the owner supplements the employee's pay with customer tips. The owner knows how this goes. No tips means more cost on every order.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Clearly in the land of the free the customer isn't king, he has to bribe the waiter.
    In the land of the free the customer is expected to pay for the service they are getting. If they are ordering to-go then they don't pay for that service.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    One more reason not to have your data served by an American cloud.
    I'm sure they have to follow any laws of the local government.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    No its not. You wouldn't get away with that. Did the customer ask you to use that? Is it strictly used to serve him a correct delivery? Nope.
    Sure it is. The guy at 145 Main St. likes red pepper with their order and doesn't tip. It would be a little weird to also note they like Cat Fancy Magazine.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Yeah, but not in their face, and yet here if a customer wants to, they can ask a company "please show me all the personal data you have gathered about me" and you know what? They have to comply. Hard to fathom, isn't it.
    I've never been asked that. I don't know if a company here has an obligation to provide you with that info. I might be wrong.

  17. #1377
    Legendary! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post
    In the land of the free the customer is expected to pay for the service they are getting. If they are ordering to-go then they don't pay for that service.
    They do with both the price of their order and the extra delivery fee. A tip isn't payment because its a tip. A bonus, an extra. It isn't part of the service fee because the service is what the company charges the customer for the delivery. The tip is what the customers decides to give you for performing your job. It could be 0, it could be five dollars, it could be a percentage.

    At no time is the tip payment for the service. Besides if I am paying for the service of Delivery I wouldn't pay you personally because I am asking for the company to deliver it. Who they choose to delivery is on them and not my responsibility. So if you really want tips to be the service fee you would have to give all of your tips over to your company. Which isn't something you'd be willing to do and would defeat the whole purpose of the tip.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #1378
    Theres a big crossroads for me with tips. On one hand, tipping 15% is a guideline-- its too low and too high. If I'm buying a 2.50$ item and someone has to drive to me, giving them a 37c tip doesnt seem appropriate. On the other hand, If me and two friends order 80$ worth of food that involves three items easily carried by one person, tipping 12$ seems overkill. I usually just try to factor in how much effort it took the delivery guy, 3$ a trip in my eyes seems to be the sweet spot.

  19. #1379
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They do with both the price of their order and the extra delivery fee.
    The delivery fee is just a fee the company changes the customer to off set the raising cost of food. Your driver is lucky to get 50% of it and more than likely only gets about 35%.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A tip isn't payment because its a tip. A bonus, an extra.
    A tip is actually a service fee. That is normally about 10-15% of your bill. A bonus or extra would be 15-20% of the bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It isn't part of the service fee because the service is what the company charges the customer for the delivery. The tip is what the customers decides to give you for performing your job. It could be 0, it could be five dollars, it could be a percentage.
    If that were true then the entire amount would go to the staff. The staff doesn't even get half of it. When you order delivery, and there is a "delivery fee", your subsidizing carry out customer's orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    At no time is the tip payment for the service. Besides if I am paying for the service of Delivery I wouldn't pay you personally because I am asking for the company to deliver it. Who they choose to delivery is on them and not my responsibility. So if you really want tips to be the service fee you would have to give all of your tips over to your company. Which isn't something you'd be willing to do and would defeat the whole purpose of the tip.
    Think what ever you want. I just ordered a pizza and the girl on the phone said it would take about 45min. I got it in 25min and gave the guy $7.

    Enjoy the back of the line.

  20. #1380
    Think what ever you want. I just ordered a pizza and the girl on the phone said it would take about 45min. I got it in 25min and gave the guy $7.

    Enjoy the back of the line.
    A lot of times 45 minutes or w/e is their standard time they give to all customers when its not busy. But yeah he should enjoy the back of the line.

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