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  1. #121
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Simply put, Garrosh pissed her off. Twice, even. First (in the Warcraft timeline) when he used her troops as meat shields in the first push into Gilneas to keep his orcs safe, second in Silverpine when they butted heads over her use of the Val'kyr. Baine and Vol'jin might not necessarily like or even approve of what she's doing, but they've also by and large left her the hell alone (which is what she wants from the Horde in return for the nominal aid she does offer them during their operations).

    The Forsaken have zero support in Garrosh's administration--the only help they're getting are from adventurers and Cromush (who was assigned more or less to kill Sylvanas as soon as she became more trouble than Garrosh felt her worth, note Garrosh's sarcastic use of the phrase 'Well-Guarded' when he gave orders for Cromush to accompany Sylvanas). Furthermore, Garrosh has continued the Kor'Kron occupation of the Undercity that Thrall began post-Wrathgate as a good-faith show to the Alliance, albeit for different reasons. Under Vol'jin and Baine, Sylvanas has the chance that they'll leave her alone to operate as usual, or at the very least she can count on them to deal with her fairly and listen to what she has to say (for better or worse).

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 04:39 PM ----------

    She was actually very respectful to Thrall in the climax of the Scourge invasion leading up to the war against the Lich King, and later during the fallout of the Wrathgate and Varimathras's coup when she met with Thrall and Jaina.


    respectful =/= respect she needed help

    this is true in real life diplomacy. you are respectful to the one you speak to, but you dont have to respect them. you are respectful to them based out of position only and why you speak to them in the first place.

    im sure many world leaders do not respect the syrian president, but if any diplomatic actions arise they will be respectful towards him despite his actions.
    Last edited by GennGreymane; 2013-01-20 at 11:11 PM.

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  2. #122
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    No way. Her short story and Silverpine/Gilneas quests clearly shows how Garrosh treats the Forsaken: he's not concerned with their well-being and problems of procreation, and he would merrily use them as cannon fodder, while forbidding them to fight with their true power (the Plague). He's the one who initiated the war on Gilneas in the first place. So I seeeeeeriously doubt Sylvanas has any reasons to not "help" him fall in some subtle way.
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  3. #123
    The Patient Shanxys's Avatar
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    You know it would be really awesome if we had the ending of all ''Rebel'' Horde Leaders delivering the killing blow. Much like Deathwing where you had the help of the Aspects + Thrall, during Garrosh's demise you'd see Vol'jin, Lor'themar, Baine and Sylvannas (maybe even Ji Firepaw and Gallywix, I don't know) during the Garrosh fight and the epic finish where he dies.

    Anyway... It would make a dramatic ending and pretty good lore-wise in my oppinion!

  4. #124
    Would Sylvanas side with a puppet of the Sha?
    With Fire and Brimstone I light my path.
    With Pain and Shadow I smite my foes.
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  5. #125
    Those heroes wouldn't make a good team because of Garrosh.

  6. #126
    Brewmaster Xothic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    respectful =/= respect she needed help

    this is true in real life diplomacy. you are respectful to the one you speak to, but you dont have to respect them. you are respectful to them based out of position only and why you speak to them in the first place.

    im sure many world leaders do not respect the syrian president, but if any diplomatic actions arise they will be respectful towards him despite his actions.
    And yet, what reason do we have to assume Sylvanis DOESN'T respect Thrall? It seems unlikely that on some level Sylvanis wouldnt acknowledge all that Thrall has done for both the Horde and Azeroth as a whole. Plus, Thrall allowed the forsaken into the Horde in the first place, whereas I'm sure there were many people against it (not sure if this is true, just going off what I barely remember from WC3)
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  7. #127
    I don't think Sylvanas is a very likely candidate for a loyalist.

    If the theories of a Legion expansion being next are correct, she'll probably have access to the same information on the Legion that the other leaders do. Fire raining from the sky and Azeroth being unmade is just as bad for the Forsaken as it is for anyone else. She'll probably avoid choosing sides initially, and then side with the rebellion once it becomes clear the rebellion can win and Garrosh is arrogant enough to think he can beat the Alliance, the Horde rebels, and the Legion all at the same time.

    Once the Legion are defeated it's possible the Forsaken are going to have to be dealt with in a meaningful way, but I don't see that being wrapped up in the Siege of Orgrimmar story arc.
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  8. #128
    Sylvanas is likely to side with the rebels, due to the fact that everybody bar the Kor'kron are going to challenge Garrosh after all his deeds.

    As for the Alliance crushing the Horde races after they are "weakened", won't happen. Velen has had a vision of an Army that stands against the Burning Legion, Orcs are a part of that army as are the rest of the Horde races. If you really believe Velen will stand idly by while Varian and his cronies crush the only hope they have at destroying the Legion, you are very wrong.

  9. #129
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xothic View Post
    And yet, what reason do we have to assume Sylvanis DOESN'T respect Thrall?It seems unlikely that on some level Sylvanis wouldnt acknowledge all that Thrall has done for both the Horde and Azeroth as a whole.
    Their goals and ethics ultimately conflict in some pretty major ways. She won't see his actions as those that benefited the Horde or Azeroth, she will only see things from her own angle and how his actions benefit her, not the Horde. The Horde is still her a method for her to achieve her goal, while protecting her from harm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xothic View Post
    Plus, Thrall allowed the forsaken into the Horde in the first place, whereas I'm sure there were many people against it (not sure if this is true, just going off what I barely remember from WC3)
    Thrall was one of the people against the induction of the Forsaken. They were only allowed in by the good word Hamuul and Tauren who wanted to help them of their plight and hopefully cure their Undeath, if it weren't for the Tauren the Forsaken wouldn't have been part of the Horde and to this day Thrall still doesn't wholly trust them or consider them an integral part of the Horde as in his own words they were merely "befriended", this view of them can have only gotten worse since Sylvanas actions in Lordaeron. Sadly this goal of Hamuul's to curse the Forsaken never really got featured much in WoW despite the fact it was the main reason they were inducted.

  10. #130
    Pandaren Monk
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    Will the Alliance be supporting the rebels in some way? That would tip the scales in their favor a bit I think.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Their goals and ethics ultimately conflict in some pretty major ways. She won't see his actions as those that benefited the Horde or Azeroth, she will only see things from her own angle and how his actions benefit her, not the Horde. The Horde is still her a method for her to achieve her goal, while protecting her from harm.



    Thrall was one of the people against the induction of the Forsaken. They were only allowed in by the good word Hamuul and Tauren who wanted to help them of their plight and hopefully cure their Undeath, if it weren't for the Tauren the Forsaken wouldn't have been part of the Horde and to this day Thrall still doesn't wholly trust them or consider them an integral part of the Horde as in his own words they were merely "befriended", this view of them can have only gotten worse since Sylvanas actions in Lordaeron. Sadly this goal of Hamuul's to curse the Forsaken never really got featured much in WoW despite the fact it was the main reason they were inducted.
    Sylvannas may not like Thrall, but she doesn't like Garrosh either. In her short story he used her people as cannon fodder, and she has been shown to have no respect or liking for him in Cataclysm. In Tides of War she was concerned that his attack on Theramore would bring retribution her way from the Alliance. As the horde turns against him, Sylvannas has NO reason to help Garrosh stick around, when he increasingly shows he only really cares for the orcs and sees the others as tools. Thrall, while he may not 'like' the Forsaken, is at least less likely to view her people as nothing but fodder.

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