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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by zenga View Post
    Played some wargames on the ptre and ele is crap vs monks and vs rogues. They can both tunnel you 24/7 and make your life miserable, and both do sick damage.
    This was pretty clear to me when i read the patch notes. rogues and monks are overbuffed and facing teams with them will be a nightmare.

    ring of peace can't be trinketted. Imagine ring of peace + smokebomb on you. Already getting nightmares >.<
    Last edited by woopytywoop; 2013-01-24 at 10:35 AM.

  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    Ele is just too susceptible to kicks. I think they need to give Resto spells their own school of magic just call it 'Water' or something.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    Ele is just too susceptible to kicks. I think they need to give Resto spells their own school of magic just call it 'Water' or something.
    Or when you choose ele spec, lightning bolt becomes lava(any other fiery name)bolt same everything, only graphic update and fire school.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    Ele is just too susceptible to kicks. I think they need to give Resto spells their own school of magic just call it 'Water' or something.
    Looked through the signature casts of others and what I noticed is that:
    Druid: Warth 2sec cast
    Fr-Mage: Frost Bolt 2sec
    Arcane: Arcan Blast 2sec
    Fire: Fire Ball 2.25sec
    Afflic: Haunt 1.5sec
    Warlock (general): Shadow Bolt 2.5sec
    Destro: Incinerate 2sec
    Shadow: Mind Blast/Mind Spike 1.5sec

    What we get from that is that the only spell with a similarly high base casting time is Shadowbolt, followed by Fire Ball. This sounds discouraging to me, especially when you consider that others have several instant casts like dots, ice lance and the like, which are also spammable. Outside of shocks, ele is very reliant on Lava Surge procs, and Lvb, the spell benefitting from it, is shorter in cast time even if you dont get a LS proc, but has a 8 second cooldown also.
    Basically elemental's fire damage is fine, but nature damage is hard to utilize. Since fire damage is limited to a 8 second cooldown and rng, it is hard to put out pressure, especially with dispells on flame shock and the shared shock cooldown.

    Maybe ele needs a spammable instant spell or something? Or a hot? Anyway, resto was in a similar spot up to and trough tbc, since they didn't have riptide yet.
    I dunno if there is some ele specific bonus to lower lb that I could've missed, but if there isn't, another thing would be lowering LB cast time, wouldn't it (obv there'd be change in terms of spell coefficient to be considered)?

    There's to say though that getting casts through became easier with the interupt nerf. Still, quite a handycap for ele (That said, I'm not really an expert on ele ).
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Looked through the signature casts of others and what I noticed is that:
    Druid: Warth 2sec cast
    Fr-Mage: Frost Bolt 2sec
    Arcane: Arcan Blast 2sec
    Fire: Fire Ball 2.25sec
    Afflic: Haunt 1.5sec
    Warlock (general): Shadow Bolt 2.5sec
    Destro: Incinerate 2sec
    Shadow: Mind Blast/Mind Spike 1.5sec

    What we get from that is that the only spell with a similarly high base casting time is Shadowbolt, followed by Fire Ball. This sounds discouraging to me, especially when you consider that others have several instant casts like dots, ice lance and the like, which are also spammable. Outside of shocks, ele is very reliant on Lava Surge procs, and Lvb, the spell benefitting from it, is shorter in cast time even if you dont get a LS proc, but has a 8 second cooldown also.
    Basically elemental's fire damage is fine, but nature damage is hard to utilize. Since fire damage is limited to a 8 second cooldown and rng, it is hard to put out pressure, especially with dispells on flame shock and the shared shock cooldown.

    Maybe ele needs a spammable instant spell or something? Or a hot? Anyway, resto was in a similar spot up to and trough tbc, since they didn't have riptide yet.
    I dunno if there is some ele specific bonus to lower lb that I could've missed, but if there isn't, another thing would be lowering LB cast time, wouldn't it (obv there'd be change in terms of spell coefficient to be considered)?

    There's to say though that getting casts through became easier with the interupt nerf. Still, quite a handycap for ele (That said, I'm not really an expert on ele ).
    Shamanism lowers the CD of lb by .5 seconds so its a 2 sec base cast time for elemental as well, but it still needs to be buffed by about 10 % porobably through shamanism so it does not hav an affect on enh's lb. Speaking of shamanism why did blizz take Lvb off of shamanism was it becasue of ascendance or from Lvb being instant with lava surge just curious.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by paror View Post
    Nothing will change, we suck now and will still suck after patch for rbg. No spammable cc, low damage, easly locked, squishiest caster of all. Did I mention low damage?

    Before anyone starts screaming I play ele at 2300 rating in rbg.
    2300 in RBG is like 2000 in arena skill wise. You are clearly clueless...

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Enaina View Post
    2300 in RBG is like 2000 in arena skill wise. You are clearly clueless...
    And here we go, ofcourse 2300 isnt very high it's not the point, it's my hardcap as elemental shaman, no one in his right mind brings a elemental shaman as they offer nothing over another caster(utlity), low damage and no defensives. On my destrolock I am currently 2700+ and our main team is running 2900+ rbg. So clearly I am clueless....

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    I didn't know anyone actually played RBG's seriously. I thought it was just people capping conquest and win traders.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    I didn't know anyone actually played RBG's seriously. I thought it was just people capping conquest and win traders.
    In europe atleast there are a few highrated teams(in between the forrest of wintraders) and those games are actually fun to do. playing arena at the moment is useless, destro and elemental both are not that good, facing 90% warrior comps and 9% godcomp, you cant get casts off, if arena was balanced more I would play that alot more but at the moment arena offers nothing. It's alot harder to cap, lower conq cap, etc

    At the moment the only viable spec for rbg or arena is resto. wich saddens me and as it is looking in 5.2 this will not change.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by SamoTray View Post
    Shamanism lowers the CD of lb by .5 seconds so its a 2 sec base cast time for elemental as well, but it still needs to be buffed by about 10 % porobably through shamanism so it does not hav an affect on enh's lb. Speaking of shamanism why did blizz take Lvb off of shamanism was it becasue of ascendance or from Lvb being instant with lava surge just curious.
    I wondered if there was something lowering that cast time, as there has been in the past. So ele shamans aren't crapped on in base nuke cast time at least.
    They still lack some instant casts though, I'd say. Either a dot or a spammable weak spell, either of them could have a chance to proc something to allow for more comfortable use of lb, which would help out ele a lot in getting less dominated by lockdowns.
    Well, that's just the impression I got back in the wotlk/cata days. Unless they had backing, ele was completely helpless in getting their stuff through, especially against enhancement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  11. #31
    Pandaren Monk Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    As long as you are really good at this game and at your class, you will have a spot in arena / rbg teams. It was always like this, will be always like this.

    Definitely, it would be more fun, if you do more dmg / cc / etc, but i play enha since TBC S1, you can get used to not being the most wanted.
    Last edited by Darksoldierr; 2013-01-25 at 11:42 AM.
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  12. #32
    you can get used to not being the most wanted
    That's a rather depressing thought and speaking from rl pe-lesson experiences, I'll have to disagree.

    Being good should be rewarded as such. A good player being at best equal to a medicore one of an fotm class doesn't cut it in my book.
    Persons with strong desires to win will usually take a strong spec, or get frustrated instead. Those who settle with bad conditions lack the desire to win/be competitive.
    There's a limit to how much you can compensate, and I think any arena elemental shaman will agree on that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  13. #33
    Pandaren Monk Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    Definitely, i got glad ranks in seasons where enha was anything but popular to play with, and i got rank1 when my class was shining. I made many friends trought the years, i never was in a place, where noone was there to play with me.

    With skill, many obstacle can be overcome, but this is a game afterall, with very weird balance situations, there are cases, when enhance is just not as productive.
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  14. #34
    Then you're one of those extremely rare exceptions, congratulations.

    Sure, If you're god among men, you can kill an army with a single sword stroke. But if you have a nuclear warhead, everyone can. That's the issue here. Other classes have those nukes, while we have to battle them with our swords at an unreal expertise (hybole much I am aware, but it should get the message across).
    This is a game, and in games it's about fairness, or it wont be fun to play. And as wow is a game played by millions, not just the elite, the difficulty of a class layout makes one hell of impact on the average playerbase.

    That's why enh/ele are less played and even less successful in arena. This is a fact which a 0.001% of shaman players cannot refute.
    Last edited by Omanley; 2013-01-26 at 10:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  15. #35
    I think it would be nice if blizz put it back like in vanilla where shamans and pally's where the 2 bad asses that were epic battles of sorts to see happen.

  16. #36
    Warchief Protoman's Avatar
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    Enh in PVP is not up to par with awkward design, stuff just doesn't make sense and we are seemingly forced into alot of talents/glyphs. Stuff like Frozen Power and Imp GW for a reliable gap closer, as well as our PVP 4set bonus making it seem like we should always spec Unleash Fury for the FB sprint effect......although the sprint is weakened when you are snared which really gimps this "gap closer"......but a rogue's sprint is less effected by snares and I think breaks em from roots when they first use it.

    Enh lacks on demand burst too.....not talking about CD's but timing your abilities to use one after the other in a small window for burst. We have to use our abilities whenever they are available and off CD to sustain our regular DPS up so you can't just store your LL for burst only. We can hold onto MW5, but LB doesn't do much damage.....Elem Blast does but then you trade that sprint from ULF FB.

    Our CC is meh......ranged root w/ Frozen Power is pretty good, and hex is pretty good but I think it needs some improvements like root enemy in place and a 30sec CD baseline. I also think Capacitor totem should be made much more reliable and effective as its one of the few aoe stuns in the game that has a delay and can be killed or outranged, it's prob the least effective aoe stun in the game for all classes (meaning it sucks). With how mobile PVP is, totems always suffer and CPT is just another good example....without something like Totem Proj it is very hard to pull off a CPT stun.

    Wind SHear was one of our biggest advantages in PVP and has been gimped in MoP.....it should have its former glory restored by finding a way to still make it a unique and powerful interrupt. I think it should have a 4 sec lockout, or even better to keep the 3 sec lockout but reduce the CD to 9-10 sec.....this way it has the same 33% lockout as classes like rogues or monks but retains some of it's previous short CD which helped to "control" a caster by making it hard to cast a spell for dps/heals/cc.

    And lastly, but prob the most important is our poor defenses. We are still very fragile compared to some other classes. WE are a hybrid with self heals but they are very limited so can't be relied on. Our def CD's aren't that good IMO.....SBT got buffed so its a little better, Astral Shift needs a longer duration and a bonus effect like "reduced dot damage or crit damage or whatever". Talents like HTT and Anc Guidance should scale so if only you are around it heals you for more but splits that heal amount if other party members are near you......but this tier in general is not that great for PVP defenses since HTT is killed quickly, Conductance is useless, and AG requires you to be DPS'ing a target which you can't always do especially if you are low on HP and popping def CD's for emergency.

    We don't have any "immunity" type def CD either which I think could really help when its the shaman who is being focused. I always pictured something like Shadowform where we partially shift into astral plane so attacks either miss us or do alot less damage (90%+) but we also do less damage, increased mobility would be a plus. Another idea is similar to Mage Iceblock where we create a "Stone tomb" around ourselves that makes us immune to all damage but can't move and would regen our HP over time......but we could possibly use this ability on our allies instead of us if we wanted, or maybe even use it on the enemy as a different form of CC.


    Well....that was alot of rambling on, but you get the idea......DPS Shaman need some stronger, more effective defenses and CC......and for Enh better ways for on demand burst, improve mobility, and IMO bring back some unique class appeal with a signature ability that gives us an edge in PVP like Wind Shear used to..... or totems if they could make them more useful and threatening since Enh has no good totems (seems Resto has the only totems that are helpful and unique to that spec).

  17. #37
    One of the many things that cripples shamans is a lack of spec specific stuff.
    -Frozen Power for example is decent as enh (but cannot compete with what you get as a rogue through talents, an instant gap closer), would be good for ele if not for shared cooldown and is downright overpowered for resto who doesn't use shocks outside of utility(IMO a 6 sec cd on a single target snare is op for a healer).

    A more spec specifc talent could instead offer an instant gap closer for enh, a sprint for resto and a instant gap creater for ele
    Almost the entire shaman toolkit consists of this mentality.

    Another problem is the downright wtf-design of many abilities which I am left with nothing but anger and suspicion on deliberate gimping of our abilities from blizzard's side.
    Hex, Captain unreliable, totemic elemental schools, totem bound pets, punishing imbue switching (UF) and the general idea that long duration buffs get replaced continuously in pvp for utility benefits that seem hardly worth the trouble (most enh for example are likely to simply stay wf/fb the whole time and give up on that huge junk of damage lost (another problem, why is enh so much troubled between different imbue setups, resto/ele aren't as bad off).
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  18. #38
    Pandaren Monk Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    Also, every time an undispellable magic buff appears or a dispellable changes to non dispellable, you hardnerfing the shaman class as whole, specially enhance, who got time to spam purge, since the spec dosen't have much gap closer.

    I think the whole class but the enhance for sure, need to be redesigned, from ground up.
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    Also, every time an undispellable magic buff appears or a dispellable changes to non dispellable, you hardnerfing the shaman class as whole, specially enhance, who got time to spam purge, since the spec dosen't have much gap closer.

    I think the whole class but the enhance for sure, need to be redesigned, from ground up.
    tbh i get bored with telling myself that " my spec will be repaired in next major patch/expansion" so im stoping plaing when my sub will end

  20. #40
    Warchief Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    Also, every time an undispellable magic buff appears or a dispellable changes to non dispellable, you hardnerfing the shaman class as whole, specially enhance, who got time to spam purge, since the spec dosen't have much gap closer.

    I think the whole class but the enhance for sure, need to be redesigned, from ground up.
    Yea thats a good point too......every patch something else becomes undispellable, giving Enh fewer ways to counter an opponent. Purge was a big factor in Enh PVP playstyle to rip away buffs, it made up for the lack of burst damage and pressure that other classes could put out.....along with Wind Shear. Both Purge and Wind Shear are less effective now which puts Enh at a disadvantage.

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