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  1. #21
    The huge gaping chasm between the power of a lowbie in full heirlooms compared to the same level character in leveling gear(some of which might be a green quest reward he got 10 levels ago) means trying to make balanced challenging content pre-max-level is pretty pointless. Unless you scale everyone to a certain gear level, but that completely cancels loot progression at lower levels.

    And the thing with higher level mobs wouldn't work because there's no possible way for you to ever get enough hit/expertise to overcome the level diff. Would also mean that any casual leveler would didn't spend a ton of time twinking hit/expertise gear is SOL and excluded from this content.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    And the thing with higher level mobs wouldn't work because there's no possible way for you to ever get enough hit/expertise to overcome the level diff. Would also mean that any casual leveler would didn't spend a ton of time twinking hit/expertise gear is SOL and excluded from this content.
    You don't have to hit 100% of the time while leveling. If you only hit 80% of the time, it's not the end of the world.

    And there would not be any "excluded from content". If you can't handle it, quest in a lower level zone until you are good enough to do it.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    You don't have to hit 100% of the time while leveling. If you only hit 80% of the time, it's not the end of the world.

    And there would not be any "excluded from content". If you can't handle it, quest in a lower level zone until you are good enough to do it.

    What's the point then when the vast vast majority of lowbies aren't twinked/heirloomed/enchanted enough to handle it and skip the content? Designing content for the tiny uber-twinked minority of lowbies is not a winning proposition.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    What's the point then when the vast vast majority of lowbies aren't twinked/heirloomed/enchanted enough to handle it and skip the content? Designing content for the tiny uber-twinked minority of lowbies is not a winning proposition.
    The point is that you are not designing any new content at all. I think you might be misunderstanding my idea.

    Imagine if you were level 40. Fully skilled and twinked in heirlooms. Then, if you wanted, you could go do level 50 quests and kill level 50 mobs. yay. A bit more challenge and more xp.

    Now, if you were a newbie lvl 40 in grays. If you tried level 50 quests, you would probably get nuked. So, you go do levl 40 quests. When you hit lvl 50, you do the lvl 50 quests.

    Zero additional design requirements from Blizzard. 0 resources applied to implement. Where is the down side?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    The point is that you are not designing any new content at all. I think you might be misunderstanding my idea.

    Imagine if you were level 40. Fully skilled and twinked in heirlooms. Then, if you wanted, you could go do level 50 quests and kill level 50 mobs. yay. A bit more challenge and more xp.

    Now, if you were a newbie lvl 40 in grays. If you tried level 50 quests, you would probably get nuked. So, you go do levl 40 quests. When you hit lvl 50, you do the lvl 50 quests.

    Zero additional design requirements from Blizzard. 0 resources applied to implement. Where is the down side?
    Having level 40's fight level 50's is stupid because you would require 22% hit. Have you ever tried to perform any semblance of a rotation on a +10 level dummy and seen 1 out of every 5 special attack miss? It would make for completely idiotic and frustrating gameplay.

    What kind of challenge is that? "Hope a DD attack misses instead of the attack that refreshes the debuff" is not compelling or challenging gameplay.

    The downside is putting a horrible broken piece of frustrating gameplay into the game and calling it content.

    edit: BTW, the 22% hit needed is only for physical attacks. As you can see from the chart on this page: http://www.wowpedia.org/Spell_hit spell hit scales much more steeply. Against just a +5 mob, you have a 39% chance to miss. I imagine against a +10 enemy, your mage might as well just run in and melee because the spell miss chance is so high it's not worth even trying.
    Last edited by SamR; 2013-01-22 at 11:24 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Having level 40's fight level 50's is stupid because you would require 22% hit. Have you ever tried to perform any semblance of a rotation on a +10 level dummy and seen 1 out of every 5 special attack miss? It would make for completely idiotic and frustrating gameplay.

    What kind of challenge is that? "Hope a DD attack misses instead of the attack that refreshes the debuff" is not compelling or challenging gameplay.

    The downside is putting a horrible broken piece of frustrating gameplay into the game and calling it content.

    edit: BTW, the 22% hit needed is only for physical attacks. As you can see from the chart on this page: http://www.wowpedia.org/Spell_hit spell hit scales much more steeply. Against just a +5 mob, you have a 39% chance to miss. I imagine against a +10 enemy, your mage might as well just run in and melee because the spell miss chance is so high it's not worth even trying.
    Indeed, that was my initial thought. Implementing heroic switch would be a way better idea and:

    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    The huge gaping chasm between the power of a lowbie in full heirlooms compared to the same level character in leveling gear(some of which might be a green quest reward he got 10 levels ago) means trying to make balanced challenging content pre-max-level is pretty pointless. Unless you scale everyone to a certain gear level, but that completely cancels loot progression at lower levels.
    If you can scale stats down in Challenge Mode, why cannot heirlooms scale down in Adventure Mode as well? Simply make them count as a blue quality item of that particular player level. Example - 46 lvl cloth heirloom gets the stats of a generic 46 lvl blue cloth piece, simple as that. This mechanic exists in the game as well, none of ideas I suggested in this topic is new.

    The idea with ambushes and dynamic behaviour of the monsters, however, while being absolutely great - would require a bit of AI tweaking, that's for sure. But it's nothing unusual, currently in single-player games AI is of much higher quality.

    What I mean is simple:
    Heroic mode, more challenge, more elites, crowd-control, strategy, caution.
    You enter Dark Iron Fortress? Feel the danger, stay on your toes, behave like you should in that particular moment, no running around, pulling all the packs and aoe'ing down.

    Act wisely, we lack cooperation before 90 right now. Everything is done as quickly as possible and for some of us - it's not fun.

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