The game is as difficult and time-consuming as you want it to be. There's a greater spectrum of play options to choose. You can't say its less or more casual because in reality its both.
As usual it is how you define "casual". You attribute it to farmville, Pokemon and dailies giving valor. If you do 50 dailies, level several battlepets to 25 and get exhalted with all Tillers in the shortest amount of time...are you still casual?
On the other hand, a handful of guilds have beaten all HM raidbosses and could now chose to really cut down their playing time. Yet you consider them hardcore?
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
So, you think the game should be catered for hardcore players only? Some people don't want to stress about raiding on X night and having to farm for X consumable for X raid, many people would rather have fun, LFR gear is good enough for that sort of thing.
In regards to PvP gear, PvP should be an equal ground as far as gear goes if it wants to be competitive, so the change is good, T1->T2 is a huge difference in damage at least for melees.
For all the disparagement of Wrath as too easy, it was still too hard to finish for most of the people who raided in it, never mind most of the people who played it.
No matter where you go, there you are.
Cata is so much more casual than WotLK. For starters, you are correct, LK heroics were more difficult as a fresh 80 than MoP heroics are for fresh 90s. People only seem to remember the 15 min AoE zerg fests. People forget the complaining about Oculus, Loken, the gauntlet in Old Strath, the mind control phase in Ahn'kahet, and many others that were group killers at first. Second, My alts rarely set foot in raids except for the weekly raid quest or some later tier PuGs. In MoP all 9 of my 90s have cleared LFR and have at least 2 Tier pieces and can be brought in as a pick me up for normals if needed. Not to mention I had the time to get them up there. And lastly, you can log in for less than an hour get your dailies, run LFR, do you dungeon and scenario and log if you wanted.
---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 11:53 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 11:55 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 11:58 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 12:00 AM ----------
Unless he is on Stormrage, I am willing to bet it was as RS came out or later, or the PuG was his guild and another that teamed up to do 25s.
---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 12:03 AM ----------
---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 12:05 AM ----------
10 mans make cata and mop more casual then wolk was
bring the light.
Mid/end Cata and MoP were far more casual friendly than Wolk; even Firelands raid tier had a number of epics you could get from farming trash/gaining rep from farming trash; at least ICC only had one rep epic (the ring).
Last edited by Celista; 2013-01-21 at 12:37 AM.
What aspect of the xpac you are talking about? If it's raiding then I would say MoP offer more options. In WotLK, normal mode was just too easy. MoP has LFR so normal mode has decent difficulty. Normal raids in WotLK were such a joke that my guild which is not hardcore but not bad too doesn't feel any good completing it.
I am not that good but as long as I can help people around me although it's a little thing then I am happy.
Pretty sure most of the big servers are pugging heroic modes now of Vaults and maybe HOF. Servers like Illidan, Mal'ganis, Sargeras, Stormragge has a huge pool of players and thus it shouldn't be surprising that they have a lots of pugs that can do better than most of the normal guilds on mid-range server. Even with the 30% buff, my server struggled to do Heroic modes in ICC. There was 4-5 bosses that were doable and the rest were not. And most time, those pugs ended after 1-2 tries on Lich King normal. Even with 30%, it only took 1 person to screw up defile and that was it.
So I can see why people on the super servers thinks everything is easy, while the rest of us are scratching our heads on why they think it's so easy. Hell, most of the time when my servers says MSV pug, they mean the first 4 bosses. Elegon normally kills a full clear.
I think Wrath felt more Casual or I would say Pug Friendly. I've ran a ton more Pugs of Naxx, Ulduar, ToC and ICC. Than I have any of the current content. Even in Cata, there weren't nearly as many PUGs going as Wrath had. But that's just my little server, which does seem to be switching to more "LFR is good enough" minded raiders
Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-01-21 at 01:01 AM.
Blizzard tried your approach in early Cataclysm. It doesn't work. It never worked. And they (and other game designers) will never try it again. It just doesn't make any sense, and the non-hardcores just won't put up with it. We showed Blizzard during Cataclysm that we're willing to walk out the door if people like you become their center of attention.
No matter where you go, there you are.
For one, I am not viewing things through a "hardcore" mentality. I do however remember what it was like to raid with one raid difficulty, and making raids more "accessible" such as in LFR difficulty just cheapens the experience, that euphoria of killing a particular raid boss. I'll never forget how I felt when we downed Illidan. I believe all players should experience that feeling of accomplishment, it is just not possible to experience by watering down a raid so that it is "accessible".
All players can down raid content eventually. It might be a tier later, or an expansion later, but everyone should be able to do it. Again, raids nerf themselves over time as ilvl increases over the course of an xpac/level cap increases from expansion to expansion.
If Blizzard DID bring back one raid difficulty, it doesn't need to be uber hardcore either, that is another assumption.
Blizzard didn't try this approach during early Cata, as we still had normal mode and hard mode and 10 man mechanics were actually much tighter than 25 man (10 mans being where the majority of casual players lie, and opposed to the rest of the xpac, where 25 man became more difficult than 10, except for late DS due to the buff).
Also other game designers continue to use the one tiered model and I am sure they will do it again.
MoP is more hardcore than Cata ever was and is really incomparable to Wrath
At least on my crappy server, very few went back and even tried heroic Ragnaros when DS was out and other than mount farming, no one went back for an Epic kill at the start of this xpac. Gamers have changed. The hardcore table top nerds may not be gone, but they no longer rule the roost. The casual player no longer is happy just leveling alts. WoW has continued to survive, because it's evolved to satisfy as many players as it can. No one group may be perfectly happy, but obviously there are enough players that are happy enough
Openraid has really helped with going back to experience old content, I highly recommend the site for every type of player.
Also I know very many people who were new/older casual players who were very very happy to kill LK during Cata, our server had a ton of ICC 25 groups going for the mount and for the achieves.
Again, we are probably never going to see this raid model again in wow. It affects me because it is expected of me as a raider to run LFR for gear upgrades as we progress through normal mode content at the beginning of a tier, and I don't get any sense of enjoyment killing a raid boss in LFR in the first week or two of an expansion. However I am in a guild that is clearing normal mode content and is on to HMs before LFR is even released so I am still stuck in the position of downing stuff within the first week or so, which I am not a fan of but what can you do....
Ultimately what we can all agree on is that the nature of raiding has changed and there really is no going back, for good or for bad.
Wotlk started the casual downfall and mop is an continuation.
Can't please everyone. I think this xpac made somethings easier, but other things harder. It's really about perspective.
Fire & Frost Mage in WoW
Cleric and Control Wizard in Neverwinter (can't decide!)
1. All guilds have cleared 16/16H, right?
2. You can easily pug a Challenge Mode Gold without any strategy, right?
3. You can get Gladiator with little effort, right?
Just because some aspects of the game made it more casual friendly (yay!) doesn't mean the entire game is "LOLEASYMODEM8MACANANA".