Mists more CASUAL than WTLK ?

[Lilly32]

Only 20% of tracked 25 man raiding guilds killed LK 25 on normal mode before 4.0. Only a minority of tracked guilds killed LK 10 on normal mode before 4.0 (and most of those had ICC 25 gear, and the 30% buff.)

For all the disparagement of Wrath as too easy, it was still too hard to finish for most of the people who raided in it, never mind most of the people who played it.

How could you not do LK at least on normal mode? I mean come on level 80s are soloing him and a full raid couldnt kill him? Hardmode I buy as I never got my kill until 4.1 and even then took a few attempts. That fight is no joke but its really just a retard check. If you do everything fine and you have people that listen and pay attention its easy. Or you get herpderps defiling the raid, or not killing frost orbs and half the raid goes "wheeee" off the edge, or a tank that doesnt turn the raging spirits and they silence everyone... and its painful and then they are the ones that "always go WTF this is a level 80 raid you guys suck". Then you check recount and they have 10k DPS and no damage done to Valks even though they grabbed all the healers. Or someone always doesnt make it off the platform. Or people refuse to move away from shadow traps and you see half the raid go "wheeeee" off the platform.

I would say Heroic Sindy was more of a pain. Frost block 20 people....sure why not. HM putricide was also a pain as were Princes but only on 25M on 10 those were easy.

[Mad_Murdock]

Also I know very many people who were new/older casual players who were very very happy to kill LK during Cata, our server had a ton of ICC 25 groups going for the mount and for the achieves.

The key there is a acheesement and mount. Does anyone who gets the kill shout with Excitment like they just achieved a world\server\guild first? We have plenty of Tmog and mount runs as well. It's mostly full of bickering because half the people want to treat it like it's LFR. I as speaking directly to the point of "feeling the thrill" a tier or Xpac later.

Again, we are probably never going to see this raid model again in wow. It affects me because it is expected of me as a raider to run LFR for gear upgrades as we progress through normal mode content at the beginning of a tier, and I don't get any sense of enjoyment killing a raid boss in LFR in the first week or two of an expansion. However I am in a guild that is clearing normal mode content and is on to HMs before LFR is even released so I am still stuck in the position of downing stuff within the first week or so, which I am not a fan of but what can you do....

In this regard I do feel somewhat sorry for the more hardcore guilds who have such requirements as forcing the players to run LFR and in that regards, I wouldn't be overly angry if they removed the tier bonuses or maybe only gave the two piece bonus. At the same time, the hardcore fast progression guilds do tend to love and talk about how crappy everyone else is so sometimes it's hard to feel too sorry for you guys. :P Not saying you're like that of course.

How could you not do LK at least on normal mode? I mean come on level 80s are soloing him and a full raid couldnt kill him? .

We never got 25man LK, we only had a team of 10 mans do it. Normally Sindy would wipes us all night in 25 man and by the time we got to LK raid time was over. Not being hardcore at all, a chunk of the guild was only willing to spend 5-10 wipes before they were asking for raid to be over. We also never got Yogg 25. The worst part, we're ranked around 10th on the server at the end of wrath. We were the 4th or 5th guild to get Saurafang down the first two weeks is was out. Different servers, completely different pools of talent.

The single level 80 is using the Mastery stack Exploit, htey just had a video of an 80 beating the 10 man stone guard dogs. Not sure if Blizzard has fixed it yet ot not., but it's more apples to oranges. I can solo Heroic Marrowgar on 10 man. It's easier to solo, because he doesn't spike me. I took someone in to heal me and it was more of a pain, because they kept gettign spiked.

[Obtuse]

I knew much less about the game, my class, other classes, rotations, specs, etc while wrath was around and I was 12/12 10 and 25 man through pugs alone on Ursin. The most I clear with pugs these days is 4/6, 2/6 and 1/4. However I don't think comparing the final tier of an expansion to the first of a new one is a fair comparison.

What I don't understand is how I'm going to have pvp elite gear by popping my cd's. I love to pvp, I've won my 300 arena matches, I've won about 100 of most bgs so I'm not fucking retarded when it comes to pvp but I guess I'm the only person out here who doesn't see an issue with the new pvp gearing strategy? It'll be great for someone like myself that pvps for a couple months and then stops for a while. I'm pretty sure that despite your worst fears, dumb asses like me will not be running around in the same gear as you. I promise you will still be significantly better than me and you will look it. And I will try my best to prove you wrong.

[Rezhka]

Theres no way you consider MoP as a casual content alone. But yes, there's a casual content that have been served to all who dont have much time spend to play the game (LFR is the most point you view). And what's wrong about it? Yet blizzard still give the hardcore content as well. Aim the Gold Medal in Challenge Mode, Do Hard Mode in raid, do proper high rating RBG with proper team not with some random shitty pugs. Is that all could be claimed easily?

About epic gear being "epic", i'm still "meh" on ppl who are fully LFR-geared and still admire the one who wear fully Heroic Raid geared, yet both of them have the same "purple-colored name".

[Stringerbell]

These topics are so new and fresh, going to find some unique answers here.

[Wildmoon]

I think you can sum it up as MoP offer more casual content than WotLK but it also offers more hardcore content than WotLK too.

[Celista]

The key there is a acheesement and mount. Does anyone who gets the kill shout with Excitment like they just achieved a world\server\guild first? We have plenty of Tmog and mount runs as well. It's mostly full of bickering because half the people want to treat it like it's LFR. I as speaking directly to the point of "feeling the thrill" a tier or Xpac later.

I've seen some that were genuinely pumped to get that kingslayer/light of dawn title and kill. Yeah I ran an alt through there late Cata and it had a very different feeling so I understand what you mean.

In this regard I do feel somewhat sorry for the more hardcore guilds who have such requirements as forcing the players to run LFR and in that regards, I wouldn't be overly angry if they removed the tier bonuses or maybe only gave the two piece bonus. At the same time, the hardcore fast progression guilds do tend to love and talk about how crappy everyone else is so sometimes it's hard to feel too sorry for you guys. :P Not saying you're like that of course.

Yeah we're not that good so we can't talk crap about anyone, lol. We zip through normal modes then end up getting stuck on a HM or two or losing a couple of key players for one reason or another and end up around #2 or #3 server on a mid-ranked server. Our server's top guild is within world 100 so we constantly live in their shadow and lose our best players to them.

I wish LFR, normal mode and HM all shared a lockout, where you could start a raid lockout on one of 3 modes and then finish the instance on a lower difficulty mode if necessary, would give me even more time to play with my alts.

[ImpTaimer]

MoP is as casual as a community outside a gated one. None of the good shit is actually available to you.

[But I Hate You All]

MoP is as casual as a community outside a gated one. None of the good shit is actually available to you.

Well said. I enjoyed WOTLk, BC, Cata more than mop

[Brash]

I'll never understand why people harp on this casual vs. hardcore idea. Most of the time it just shows me that the person isn't as talented at the game as they would like others to believe. The fact that player A has epics and player B doesn't isn't always indicative of skill.

Either way who cares if this guy has the same weapon as you from LFR? You have the heroic one, which looks different and has better stats, or can you not stroke your e-peen because the color of the text is the same? Only blue vs purple does it for you i guess. If the gear from LFR had the same stats same model and same ilvl but were blue text instead of purple would this solve your problems?

[Rigimi44]

In Wrath, PUG groups were doing ICC 10m within a couple of weeks. Tier 10 was pretty easy to get in PUGs, and even "casuals" like myself could get into a raid every week. It was great for me, because I could see the content, like how LFR is now.

[ImpTaimer]

I'll never understand why people harp on this casual vs. hardcore idea.

"Trolls" harp on it as an insult/meme because they lack basic wisdom. Why accept when you can berate?

[Osmeric]

Wotlk started the casual downfall and mop is an continuation.

Hmm, not quite right.

Wotlk started the casual salvation and mop is a continuation.

Much better.

---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 03:37 AM ----------

How could you not do LK at least on normal mode?

The stats don't lie. Most people didn't do it. The mechanics were just too hard for a group consisting of average players.

Bashiok has a quote on this that's worth repeating:

“Hardcore” players for example tend to dramatically underestimate the skill gap between themselves and the vast majority of other players.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...250?page=6#119