View Poll Results: Would you transfer to such a server?

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  • Yes, and I would change to 25 man raiding/continue to playing 25 mans

    32 27.83%
  • No, I like being able to raid 10 man for the same loot as 25

    76 66.09%
  • yes, but I wouldn't necessarily join a 25 man raiding guild.

    6 5.22%
  • No, I would stay on my server for social reasons

    1 0.87%
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  1. #1

    Would you transfer to a server where ilvl on gear in 10 and 25 man were not the same?

    In Asia, 10 and 25 man yields loot with different item level. Why? Because "Asian players overwhelmingly told us they liked having dual lockouts." (dual lockouts also implies different item level).

    So now I'd like to ask the people on mmo-champion if they would transfer to a EU server which would work the same way as the Asian servers does (dual lockout and higher ilvl gear from 25 man), if the transfer was free. Personally, I would. Even if my intent is not to join a 25 man raiding guild in the first place, knowing that there is higher ilvl waiting for those who take the step and join a 25 man guild, is something that would make the game more interesting for me.

    I feel that too many people put their hunger for the best gear possible, in front of the hunger for a game that stays true to itself and keeps the difference in reward for the difference in effort.

    So would you?

    Feel free to explain why you chose what you did.

    *Edit: some people seem to misunderstand. What I am talking about, is making separate server. one type works like it does now, another works like they do in Asia. So if you don't want to feel obligated to do 25 mans, you'd stay on the normal servers*
    Last edited by l4808; 2013-01-21 at 12:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    If my entire 25man guild comes with me: sure.

    If not: naah. Community > Ilvl.

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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    If my entire 25man guild comes with me: sure.

    If not: naah. Community > Ilvl.
    That is sort of the point. If you changed, it would not be because you got better gear than you could aquire on a normal server. It would be because of the difference between 10 and 25. Let's sat 25 man gear stands the same, while 10 man is 4 ilvl lower.

    My experience now, is that the community is quite indifferent. Everyone knows that same ilvl is the only reason so many 25 man guilds have converted to 10 man. But that's not the only problem. Everyone who raids, are affected by the fact that there is no good reason for a standard raiding group to go 25 man.

    And that's where your point community > ilvl actually shows it's true meaning. It's clear that people care too much about getting the highest ilvl, and therefore want 10 man to yield as good ilvl as 25 man. And naturally, with all the cons of running and maintaining a 25 man raiding group, not having that "ilvl carrot" can take it's toll on the community in such a raiding team. Which there are too many examples of.
    Last edited by l4808; 2013-01-21 at 12:13 AM.

  4. #4
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    If my entire 25man guild comes with me: sure.

    If not: naah. Community > Ilvl.
    I will go with this aswell
    I'm neither Pro or Anti Flying, I just have a different opinion on the matter.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome
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    i said yes, but i already raid 25. what i mean is, yes if my guild came with me, and only because it would make recruiting less of a bitch. seriously... trying to recruit for 25's on a low pop server sucks balls

  6. #6
    The Patient Arainie's Avatar
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    I would love for it to happen but I wouldn't transfer due to social reasons.
    I wouldn't nessecarily need my guild to come with me, but I wouldn't want to leave all my friends on the server I've played on since forever!

    So yea, add an option stating that one is positive to separate lockouts with a higher ilvl in 25m but wouldn't transfer to a new server for it to happen and you've got my vote. You also seem to be assuming everyone is raiding 10m at the moment which certainly isn't the case!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    I would love for it to happen but I wouldn't transfer due to social reasons.
    I wouldn't nessecarily need my guild to come with me, but I wouldn't want to leave all my friends on the server I've played on since forever!

    So yea, add an option stating that one is positive to separate lockouts with a higher ilvl in 25m but wouldn't transfer to a new server for it to happen and you've got my vote. You also seem to be assuming everyone is raiding 10m at the moment which certainly isn't the case!
    I am certainly not assuming that. I've explained how not having different lockout is taking it's toll on 25 man guilds. (That obviously means I also consider people are playing 25 man. I guess I should add an option if you play 25 man, but how to add poll options?)

  8. #8
    Brewmaster
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    Would be better if 10 gave better equip imho.

    So i would just transfer to a server where what i said happens, making 25 give better like pre cata is pointless.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    Would be better if 10 gave better equip imho.

    So i would just transfer to a server where what i said happens, making 25 give better like pre cata is pointless.
    Could you elaborate on that? I don't understand how you would defend having the better gear drop for the mode that requires the least effort of the two. (Keep in mind I am not necessarily saying that the gameplay of 10 man is easier.)

  10. #10
    Pit Lord velde046's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by l4808 View Post
    I feel that too many people put their hunger for the best gear possible, in front of the hunger for a game that stays true to itself and keeps the difference in reward for the difference in effort.
    That's an opinion, and a lot of people have a different opinion *waves*. The difference in effort is actually only valid for the raid leaders, not for the raiders... And no, I would not transfer, don't wanna live in a world with dual lockouts again, where it was very hard for a casual player to keep up...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    Would be better if 10 gave better equip imho.

    So i would just transfer to a server where what i said happens, making 25 give better like pre cata is pointless.
    So giving better gear from 25man is pointless, but from 10man its ok..?

    A couple of months ago I would, maybe I would now aswell. As I quit raiding because my guild decided to go 10man insted of 25man, and in my eyes 10man raiding dosnt feel right (Been raiding 25man as long as I can remember, and still miss 40man. 10man just feels bad..)
    So yeah, I guess most of my guild would come with me and we could form a new guild and recruit a bunch. But most important - I play for PvP now, though RBGs wont be a problem as I got a bunch of people added on battletag for that, I still need to find arena players and I'm not sure how that would be on a pure PvE server.

  12. #12
    Epic! Iceleaf's Avatar
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    Why? The server would literally be 25-man guilds only.

    1) It separates playerbase, making 25man guilds go into this server to get better loot
    Since everyone does 25mans your gear wont be special, snowflake or "something to epeen about"
    2) Since it has better loot = need different tuning than other realms
    why even bother then, all you get is higher ilvl number in the end anyway? That is if they can tune the fights to same level it is like with
    3) If any 25man guilds ever lose members to go to 10 they would just "die out" on the realm pretty fast
    4) Asia has different lockouts and systems because they pug and they dont guildrun stuff mostly.
    "when women wear makeup they’re basically lying to us"
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceleaf View Post
    Why? The server would literally be 25-man guilds only.

    1) It separates playerbase, making 25man guilds go into this server to get better loot
    Since everyone does 25mans your gear wont be special, snowflake or "something to epeen about"
    2) Since it has better loot = need different tuning than other realms
    why even bother then, all you get is higher ilvl number in the end anyway? That is if they can tune the fights to same level it is like with
    3) If any 25man guilds ever lose members to go to 10 they would just "die out" on the realm pretty fast
    4) Asia has different lockouts and systems because they pug and they dont guildrun stuff mostly.
    1) You are missing the point. The point is not to get better gear than you're getting now. The point is to restore the difference. Knowing there's a difference would be a lift for 25 mans.
    2) They are already tuning them differently for Asian servers, where this system is in effect.
    3) Yes, that is the case on normal realms, because there are very few 25 man raiding guilds. On servers where there are a lot, you won't have that same problem when someone in your team quits. There will always be players who have to (change of schedule), or want to, change a guild.
    4) Asia has different lockouts and systems because they pug and don't guildrun? Please direct me to your sources for this. I've never heard about this.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 09:35 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by velde046 View Post
    That's an opinion, and a lot of people have a different opinion *waves*. The difference in effort is actually only valid for the raid leaders, not for the raiders... And no, I would not transfer, don't wanna live in a world with dual lockouts again, where it was very hard for a casual player to keep up...
    What's so wrong with accepting the fact that you, as a casual gamer, should not be able to keep up with the more dedicated players? I'm just like you, and I am fine with that. That's why I want you to ask yourself that. For us to keep up with someone, those must "wait" on us. So why should be keep up with them? The gear from 10 man serves the purposes they are supposed to serve. Making an entry into the next raid.

    And if people raiding 10 mans feel obligated to raid 25 man to get higher ilvl gear so that the next raid tier will be easier to begin with, then Blizzard could consider putting restrictions on ilvl in 10 mans, just as they do in challenge modes.

    a weapon in 25 man has ilvl 510, the same item in 10 man has 500. When entering a 25 man with the 510 weapon, it gets scaled down to the 10 man equivalent ilvl.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by l4808 View Post
    Could you elaborate on that? I don't understand how you would defend having the better gear drop for the mode that requires the least effort of the two. (Keep in mind I am not necessarily saying that the gameplay of 10 man is easier.)


    Dont start a 10 is easier than 25 debate ( yes saying requires less effort means that even if you denied it 2 words after ).

    I just stated my opinion which is that .

    There is no reason for 25 to give better equip since they are the same difficulty as 10, no need to encourage people to do it for particular reason apart from subjective preferences to raid 25 over 10.

    What i had said was just a counter to this stupid proposal , thats all .

    If people like doing 25 , they will do 25.

    If people like doing 10 , they will do 10.

    We are still in a world where we need to be carefull with what we give customers , so no .. giving better stuff to 25 would create imbalance and the old * lolo im 25 im pro u 10 you suck ololol * problems.. totally unjustified since they are equal in difficulty:

    Where 10 is harder to execute , its easier to form.
    Where 25 is harder to form , its easier to execute.

    Have a nice morning !

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    If people like doing 25 , they will do 25.

    If people like doing 10 , they will do 10.
    That is not exactly the case. I've stopped counting the people I've met/know who keep saying they liked it better when they raided 25 man, but can't be arsed going through the effort when there is exactly the same loot to collect in 10 man.

    If your statement were correct, then we wouldn't have seen such a drastic drop in 25 man raiding guilds after 10 and 25 mans started dropping the same ilvl. It's more complicated than "if you like one thing, you do it." putting extra time and effort for no other reason than "I like it better" is not always enough.

    Blizzard have stated it so many times "you don't have to have the best stuff possible". I don't know why they stopped applying this to raiding as well. If you want to raid 10 man, then be happy with your 10 man ilvl gear, which is sufficient for progressing where you're actually raiding, in a 10 man raid.




    If I can work for 1 hour, and get the same reward as working for 2 hours, then I'd choose the 1 hour job, even if the 2 hour job was more enjoyable. And I know a lot would do the same.
    Last edited by l4808; 2013-01-21 at 12:00 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by l4808 View Post
    That is not exactly the case. I've stopped counting the people I've met/know who keep saying they liked it better when they raided 25 man, but can't be arsed going through the effort when there is exactly the same loot to collect in 10 man.

    If your statement were correct, then we wouldn't have seen such a drastic drop in 25 man raiding guilds after 10 and 25 mans started dropping the same ilvl. It's more complicated than "if you like one thing, you do it." putting extra time and effort for no other reason than "I like it better" is not always enough.
    Other reason not to put better ilvl on 25 man raids .

  17. #17
    Player who truly wants to raid 25 mans don't need no special rewards for doing it. As for the topic, no, I would not play on such server.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Suizid View Post
    Player who truly wants to raid 25 mans don't need no special rewards for doing it. As for the topic, no, I would not play on such server.
    You really missed the whole point...

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Jaja's Avatar
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    If anything 10man should be higher ilvl loot, to make up for the individual effort required and the fact that there is less room for error.

    As far as transferring to another server, you already can, it is called Asia, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Lazuli's Avatar
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    Poll options are wtf. I raid 25 man anyways but yes I fully believe ilvl in 25 should be higher than 10.

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