Page 1 of 25
1
2
3
11
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Why does socialized medicine suck again?

    I just had non-essential surgery in my chest (a procedure which took around 2 hours of operating) and it left me with a bill of around 15 USD... lol
    So tell me, why does socialized medicine suck again? This procedure would've cost around 6000 dollars if I had funded it privately....

  2. #2
    It doesn't. Only the American right believes otherwise.

    edit - To be clear, I'm American, this isn't supposed to be nation bashing at all. I'm actually quite amenable to market solutions to healthcare problems, but recognize that socializing systems works just fine.
    Last edited by Spectral; 2013-01-21 at 12:39 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    It doesn't. Only the American right believes otherwise.
    And that about wraps up this discussion.

    Though I'm sure conservatards are gonna start blabbing all over this thread about how socialism doesn't work, despite mountains of empirical data that says otherwise.

    Battle of the Badasses - Warcraft Edition

    Congrats to Medivh

    Bracket Results Here

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Aftonflickan View Post
    I just had non-essential surgery in my chest (a procedure which took around 2 hours of operating) and it left me with a bill of around 15 USD... lol
    So tell me, why does socialized medicine suck again? This procedure would've cost around 6000 dollars if I had funded it privately....
    Someone had to pay for it.. Free stuff is only awesome for the one getting it. Isn't it obvious that those who had to paid for it complain and don't want it..

  5. #5
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    15,001
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    It doesn't. Only the American right believes otherwise.
    ^^

    And once the greater American GOP populace realizes that their GOP politicians who are telling them they should be against socialized medicine/healthcare are on socialized medicine/healthcare themselves... they might just wonder... Not to mention the politicians' healthcare is all paid for from citizens' tax dollars. WHICH I would have no problem with, if we had the same kind of healthcare as well. Hypocrites, all of them.

  6. #6
    Because some people are almost religiously terrified of the word "socialized."
    Get a grip man! It's CHEESE!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Aftonflickan View Post
    I just had non-essential surgery in my chest (a procedure which took around 2 hours of operating) and it left me with a bill of around 15 USD... lol
    So tell me, why does socialized medicine suck again? This procedure would've cost around 6000 dollars if I had funded it privately....
    The idea of socialized medicine isn't exactly a bad idea, nor are some implementations of it. However, not ALL forms will work. Working in the medical field I can already start to see some of the potential downsides.

    For instance, clinics can limit the number of patients seen with a certain insurance type (like Medicaid aka State Insurances), or they can outright refuse to accept certain forms of insurance. Clinics can also demand payment before you are seen by a physician. For everyone else who's left out in the cold, they then need to use hospitals, more specifically, Emergency Departments as a primary clinic. This happens in the ER I work at, and has been for a number of years. Everyone is required to be seen by a physician in the ER because of EMTALA. So, we'll see true emergencies (heart attack, stroke, etc) along with things that could be taken care of through the clinic, like sore throat, most forms of abdominal pain, vomiting. State funded insurances typically pay pennies on the dollar for services, so hospitals are then left with the rest of the cost. The more this happens, the more the hospital loses in funds, which has side effects. Hospitals may not be able to afford the best equipment available to help patients, they may need to lay off, they may lose their ability to forgive certain amounts of debt for patients who make too much to get on state funded insurance, but cannot afford insurance on their own, and worst case scenarios of hospitals having to close. The hospital I work in is currently running in the red because of how much we wind up having to write off. It's pretty scary.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaneth View Post
    The idea of socialized medicine isn't exactly a bad idea, nor are some implementations of it. However, not ALL forms will work. Working in the medical field I can already start to see some of the potential downsides.

    For instance, clinics can limit the number of patients seen with a certain insurance type (like Medicaid aka State Insurances), or they can outright refuse to accept certain forms of insurance. Clinics can also demand payment before you are seen by a physician.
    Except that wouldnt happen in a Single Payer System. There would be only 1 insurer...the government. If a hospital or clinic decided not to accept that insurance "Assuming they would even be allowed to, they would likely legally have to", then they would have no customers and would go out of business.

    The main advantage of a Single Payer System is leverage.
    Last edited by Nuke1096; 2013-01-21 at 12:51 AM.

    Battle of the Badasses - Warcraft Edition

    Congrats to Medivh

    Bracket Results Here

  9. #9
    Fluffy Kitten
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    5,162
    Socialized medicine doesn't suck.

    However, for some unknown reason, the idiots on booth sides think the US is getting socialized medicine.

  10. #10
    It doesn't, and would be beneficial if the U.S. were to adopt a good socialized medicine program. Being the country that spends the most on healthcare, yet has one of the worst healthcare systems is pretty shitty.

    Somethings just do not belong in private enterprise hands, especially when it comes to health and well-being.
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    It doesn't, and would be beneficial if the U.S. were to adopt a good socialized medicine program. Being the country that spends the most on healthcare, yet has one of the worst healthcare systems is pretty shitty.

    Somethings just do not belong in private enterprise hands, especially when it comes to health and well-being.
    Ya like the production of our food, oh wait thats already been privatized and we have no control over it whats so ever

    There is so much processed junk these days, im thinking about going freaking vegetarian

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    Being the country that spends the most on healthcare, yet has one of the worst healthcare systems is pretty shitty.
    I do not concur with the assertion that the United States has one of the worst healthcare systems. It's the least cost effective among modernized countries and has some significant downsides, but it handles some problems very, very well. Rankings systems that reward points for equality of care across a populace deliberately punish the American system; they're not a valid way of look at optimal outcomes. With disparities in longevity being narrow and having at least as much to do with demographics as care, I'm skeptical of claims that rest on average ages.

    This isn't an argument that our system is well designed - it's a fucking abomination of epic proportions. The actual outcomes are good for the vast majority of people though.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 07:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by killerlee View Post
    Ya like the production of our food, oh wait thats already been privatized and we have no control over it whats so ever

    There is so much processed junk these days, im thinking about going freaking vegetarian
    I'm not sure what an aversion to processed food has to do with vegetarianism. You can buy freshly butchered meats quite easily if you're so inclined.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Garnier Fructis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Location:
    Posts
    4,712
    Socialized medicine works just fine. "But someone had to pay for that $6000 surgery!" Bullshit, that didn't cost $6000. It only costs that much here because prices on everything are artificially inflated. Scorpion anti-venom that costs a more than 50k here was produced for only a few thousand bucks.

    In Taiwan they have national healthcare, and while it does have some funding issues, it's not like the sky is falling. While on my month long vacation, I received care that was just as good as what we have in the U.S., and even without insurance it cost me a fraction of what it does here.
    Wir müssen wissen. Wir werden wissen.
    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    You are a certified crackpot that is subservient to the manipulators of science who are dreaming to control knowledge.

  14. #14
    socialized medicine is great, but has been made 'evil' by people who like to cry out big words they don't understand.
    Last edited by Majad; 2013-01-22 at 12:27 AM.

  15. #15
    Clearly our system doesn't work since the US spends so much per citizen but is the least healthy nation.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Aftonflickan View Post
    I just had non-essential surgery in my chest (a procedure which took around 2 hours of operating) and it left me with a bill of around 15 USD... lol
    So tell me, why does socialized medicine suck again? This procedure would've cost around 6000 dollars if I had funded it privately....
    Probably has something to do with the fucking 9 month wait time for a hernia operation. Its fucking out-patient surgery. Just ask my step dad about that shit.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I do not concur with the assertion that the United States has one of the worst healthcare systems. It's the least cost effective among modernized countries and has some significant downsides, but it handles some problems very, very well. Rankings systems that reward points for equality of care across a populace deliberately punish the American system; they're not a valid way of look at optimal outcomes. With disparities in longevity being narrow and having at least as much to do with demographics as care, I'm skeptical of claims that rest on average ages.

    This isn't an argument that our system is well designed - it's a fucking abomination of epic proportions. The actual outcomes are good for the vast majority of people though.
    Yeah, I shouldn't have said that, the quality (If you can afford it) is actually really good, but as you said, the way the system is designed, is the shitty part.
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  18. #18
    Fluffy Kitten
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    5,162
    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    • MMO-Champion
    • » Forum
    • » Off-Topic Forums
    • » General Off-Topic»
    • Why does socialized medicine suck again?

      You came her from the front page didn't you?


      Not everything is wow-related or in the wow-forums on the front page, unless you go into options and turn it off.

      Believe it or not, there is a discussion on nearly everything on this site, if you widen your horizons, you might just notice it!



      socialized medicine is great, but has been made 'evil' by people who like to cry out big words they don't understand.
    Threads can be transferred forums with no outward indication to low level users that such a thing happened. This thread could have originated in the WoW Gen forums and you would have no idea if not for the posts saying "wrong forum," etc. A little less snippiness on such a pointless topic might be the best course.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by teh piemore View Post
    Probably has something to do with the fucking 9 month wait time for a hernia operation.
    "I heard somewhere people wait a year for surgery, it must be true!"

    Except it's not. Anecdotal evidence is worthless for a reason.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Varabently View Post
    Clearly our system doesn't work since the US spends so much per citizen but is the least healthy nation.
    I think this has quite a bit more to do with our obesity demographics than our healthcare system. It's also worth noting that we have high rates of death from non-natural causes relative to other first world countries, particularly auto deaths.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •