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  1. #341
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Yes. Currently consists of 12 frigates, 3 destroyers, 4 submarines, 12 coastal defense ships, and various other miscellany.
    And one Stephen Harper with a shotgun riding a specially trained harp seal.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Canada also has to pay very little if any for national defense since the US pretty much protects Canada with their defense
    Right, because Canada gets attacked like every day and the US comes to our aid all the zero times Canada has been attacked in your living memory! That was a ridiculous comment.

    USA spends way too much on the military, much more than they need (much more than both US and Canada needs even!), and millions of Americans could have a significantly better quality of life if so many people stopped wetting their pants every time they heard the word "socialized."

    I have a better idea though, which shouldn't even affect the budget of the military OR increase your personal taxes; Just tax the freaking churches and let that money pay for medicare. Now everyone can be happy besides a few pastor's who don't get to live in multimillion dollar homes.
    Last edited by Greeney; 2013-01-21 at 05:44 PM.

  3. #343
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuzantar View Post
    Sure. Socialism is 100% better than Capitalism, and ALWAYS works. It's not like these two systems are debatable, subjective and comes down to preference.
    You need to be clear whether you mean "socialism" in an economic sense, or a political sense; they aren't the same.

    "Socialism" in a political sense means social welfare programs. Every first world country is socialist to a fairly extensive degree already, even the US.

    "Socialism" in an economic sense means co-operatives and union ownership. The root difference between economic socialism and capitalism can be boiled down thus; capitalism is banks, socialism is credit unions. Yes, you can have both in the same system.


    If you think "socialism" means anything else, you are, to be blunt, wrong. Crack a dictionary sometime.

  4. #344
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    ITT we get to hear from everyone that doesn't live in the U.S tell us how bad it is.

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Russia was perfectly capable of handling that. We don't have to be involved in everything.
    You know, when you asked me which nation was threatened with annexion, I wasn't expecting you to tell me that we should have let the nation that could have performed the annexion do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    That's possible, if unlikely given what happened in the 40s. Assuming history is any indicator, of course.
    In the 1940s, we had a defense budget and did not want to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    If you think the people in North Korea are worried about their economy then you haven't been doing a lot of research on North Korea.
    If you think you can double the size of your country without it collapsing if you don't have a proper running economy then I don't know why I even bother discussing with you. Even the North Korean nuts realize that; that South Korea is protected by the US is just icing on the cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    It was at one time. I don't think today's Hello Kitty Japan is really up to the task of standing up to a juggernaut like China without assistance, however.
    Hello Kitty Japan is waking up as they see that China is rising to be an aggressive superpower, which the US cannot do shit about, #1 world power or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    If you think that, then you don't understand what a political superpower is.

    The Soviet Union was absolutely a superpower. The only reason they fell was because their top-down economy became unsustainable given the size of the state and disquieted masses who were sick of being put through the Gulag for speaking ill of their inept politicians.
    That's exactly what I said, superpowers are NOT beneficial to world peace. I'm sorry you didn't understand the irony.
    Last edited by Guilu; 2013-01-21 at 05:45 PM.

  6. #346
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miscer View Post
    ITT we get to hear from everyone that doesn't live in the U.S tell us how bad it is.
    And vice versa: people who live in US trying to tell the rest of the world how shitty it is outside of US borders.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  7. #347
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska View Post
    I welcome your comment on my post as proof of what I just said, thank you very much. If you have something of value to add, please do so, I would hate having to talk about your avatar and pretend I knew what the person in your avatar would have thought about the subject at hand.

    And just to throw that in, the stocks of major pharmaceutical companys went up the moment obamacare was approved, just give that a moment of thought, will ya? Socialized medicine doesn't make it cheaper (quite the opposite) it just leaves others with the bill, and I find this attitude disgusting to say the least. The system is broken, and it's not government intervention that can fix it, it's the free market that can, but it isn't allowed to work in the healthcare industry.

    Just watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uPdkhMVdMQ
    The health care act passed in the united states (commonly refereed to as Obama care) is not socialized medicine. It's not even remotely close. It is indeed a massive give away to the insurance industry and is the only reason it passed. The corporate oligopoly allowed it be passed because it was just that, a massive give away. The free market CANNOT I REPEAT CANNOT do health care. I recognize that's a common talking point but the reality is the free market is not suited to everything and doesn't even really exist. Can you by uranium? How bout child slaves? The "free market" utopian ideal is in reality the vile maxim of the masters of man kind. It has almost never existed and it's contributions are neglible. Mostly it contributes to the financilization of the economy, moving jobs and employment to areas where profit margins are greater. The reality is that the free market concept and idea ignores the need for PLANNING. It's likely that most of you are actually afraid to talk about planning because of the fear engendered in large part by the corporate media state. However the future will require PLANNING. Or the species is not likely to survive. The free market principle is in actuality the principle that Adam Smith states. The vile maxim of the masters of mankind. All for ourselves and nothing for other people. It is not the only principle but it is currently the only one that gets much attention.

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    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-01-21 at 05:51 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #348
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska View Post
    I welcome your comment on my post as proof of what I just said, thank you very much. If you have something of value to add, please do so, I would hate having to talk about your avatar and pretend I knew what the person in your avatar would have thought about the subject at hand.

    And just to throw that in, the stocks of major pharmaceutical companys went up the moment obamacare was approved, just give that a moment of thought, will ya? Socialized medicine doesn't make it cheaper (quite the opposite) it just leaves others with the bill, and I find this attitude disgusting to say the least. The system is broken, and it's not government intervention that can fix it, it's the free market that can, but it isn't allowed to work in the healthcare industry.

    Just watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uPdkhMVdMQ
    And, this is massive BS. Privatized medicine costed US bigger chunk of the GDP than most countries with socialized medicine, while also having higher infant mortality and lower life expectancy overall.

    You think about it the wrong way. Contributing towards the betterment of your entire society is NOT the same as paying the bill for someone else.
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  9. #349
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilu View Post
    That's exactly what I said, superpowers are NOT beneficial to world peace. I'm sorry you didn't understand the irony.
    For proof of this see France and Britain a couple of hundred years ago.

    Im trying to think of a time when there wasnt a superpower but I dont think there was one. Superpowers are only beneficial to their own countries peace.

  10. #350
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    ..and I bet we could count on one hand how many ITT have actually lived in other countries other than their homeland.

    So, in effect the majority here are surely regurgitating unbiased and thorough reporting from god know's what media outlets.

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    It doesn't. Only the American right believes otherwise.

    edit - To be clear, I'm American, this isn't supposed to be nation bashing at all. I'm actually quite amenable to market solutions to healthcare problems, but recognize that socializing systems works just fine.
    Also, the version of socialised medicine in the US is incredibly efficient and hihg quality compared to private medical care, its good enough for your elected representatives, but apparantly not for the general populance.
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  12. #352
    Bloodsail Admiral Cjeska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You need to be clear whether you mean "socialism" in an economic sense, or a political sense; they aren't the same.

    "Socialism" in a political sense means social welfare programs. Every first world country is socialist to a fairly extensive degree already, even the US.

    "Socialism" in an economic sense means co-operatives and union ownership. The root difference between economic socialism and capitalism can be boiled down thus; capitalism is banks, socialism is credit unions. Yes, you can have both in the same system.


    If you think "socialism" means anything else, you are, to be blunt, wrong. Crack a dictionary sometime.
    Should be pretty clear what he is talking about, did you read the topic?

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Miscer View Post
    ITT we get to hear from everyone that doesn't live in the U.S tell us how bad it is.
    Income equality in the US is an issue whether you want to admit or not. Universal healthcare is one step that would help fix it.
    Last edited by fengosa; 2013-01-21 at 06:18 PM.

  14. #354
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska View Post
    Should be pretty clear what he is talking about, did you read the topic?
    I was clarifying for the purpose of other readers, not the guy I was responding to. Because people still use "sochulizm!" like it's a bad word.

  15. #355
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    And, this is massive BS. Privatized medicine costed US bigger chunk of the GDP than most countries with socialized medicine, while also having higher infant mortality and lower life expectancy overall.

    You think about it the wrong way. Contributing towards the betterment of your entire society is NOT the same as paying the bill for someone else.
    That is the fundamental root of the problem. They don't see any value in solidarity. In large part because fear of the state has been engendered into them since the revolution.

    The United States is a reverse socialism. Welfare for the rich and powerful, whos interests are taken care of ABOVE ALL ELSE (and historically always has been except for cases of mass protest and worker solidarity). Tough love for the poor and middle class.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #356
    People like the idea of paying $100 for something only they get then needing to pay $25 for them selves and $25 for others.
    How much money would the average person pay to live.( I think all that they had) what good is money to a dead person.


    most the people in the US don't like US Socialism because we give way to much money to the people that only use it to gain more power in the US and not to people that need it to have a roof over there head to sleep under. hell Mitt Romny got to say his worth was $70,000 less every year because his horse was just so needed for the grater good of all US citizens. why is it chevron gets millions form our gov to stay in operation but can rack up billlions in profit in the same years, but the non profit food bank in my town needs to beg for a few extra cans of food to feed people.

  17. #357
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pucGG View Post
    Between highscool and college I worked for 1 year. In that one year I payed 28.000 dollars in taxes. Majority of that money went to the health department of the government. Seeing that I am a healthy individual, I haven't got much bang for my buck.
    and how much did you make? because in the US, for a year of work with nought but a HS diploma, you'd be hard pressed to be making more than 20k before taxes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  18. #358
    Bloodsail Admiral Cjeska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    And, this is massive BS. Privatized medicine costed US bigger chunk of the GDP than most countries with socialized medicine, while also having higher infant mortality and lower life expectancy overall.

    You think about it the wrong way. Contributing towards the betterment of your entire society is NOT the same as paying the bill for someone else.
    Now please look up the difference between causality and correlation. Having a better and cheaper healthcare system that is ALSO socialized doesn't mean that the process of socialization is what made it cheaper and better. It's logical, but wrong.

  19. #359
    Socialized medicine does not work in a for profit healthcare arena. I believe that healthcare should not be a for profit business, but since the people that run this multibillion dollar a year industry have more money to pay off Congress than pretty much anyone else... Congress will continue to be more concerned with what the lobbyist think than what is best for the American people.
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  20. #360
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska View Post
    Now please look up the difference between causality and correlation. Having a better and cheaper healthcare system that is ALSO socialized doesn't mean that the process of socialization is what made it cheaper and better. It's logical, but wrong.
    Actually it did. The process of socialization in Canada began in the the 1970s and health care costs haven't seen the sharp rise that they have in the united states. They certainly have risen but the evidence shows that health care costs have stayed cheaper in large part because the profit motive is not an issue. Free markets simple do not do planning or organization on a scale required to be effecient. The supposed effecient markets hypothesis is a myth like the tooth fairy.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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