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  1. #361
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska View Post
    Now please look up the difference between causality and correlation. Having a better and cheaper healthcare system that is ALSO socialized doesn't mean that the process of socialization is what made it cheaper and better. It's logical, but wrong.
    Do you have concrete evidence to prove that it's wrong?
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  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska View Post
    Now please look up the difference between causality and correlation. Having a better and cheaper healthcare system that is ALSO socialized doesn't mean that the process of socialization is what made it cheaper and better. It's logical, but wrong.
    ...then please enlighten us as to what causes Socialized Medicine in other countries to be much cheaper and yet maintain the same level of care, if not better, than the USA?
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    and how much did you make? because in the US, for a year of work with nought but a HS diploma, you'd be hard pressed to be making more than 20k before taxes
    51000$ a year.
    Last edited by pucGG; 2013-01-21 at 06:15 PM.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    Income equality in the US is an issue whether you want to admit or not. Universal heakthcare is one step that would help fix it.
    Ah yes, that's why I got a supposed 13% pay raise this year, yet I am going to net less this month than I did in December.

    Hurrah for the middle-class, disturbed wealth for everyone!

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Aftonflickan View Post
    I just had non-essential surgery in my chest (a procedure which took around 2 hours of operating) and it left me with a bill of around 15 USD... lol
    So tell me, why does socialized medicine suck again? This procedure would've cost around 6000 dollars if I had funded it privately....
    At the very least, there were three paid professionals in that operating room with you. We won't even factor in MD insurance, operating devices, medicine, janitorial professionals and products to sterilize the room after you, upkeep of the hospital, power and plumbing bills, administration costs, cost of the bed you were laying on, etc. Simply considering wages, you paid doctors and nurses who went through YEARS of education to not, you know, kill you on the table, $2.50 an hour. I'm not even talking about the tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars they spend on that education, which surely will prompt claims that education is overpriced, which it is. I'm talking about the sacrifice, dedication, and talent it takes to attend and succeed in medical school/ nursing school. And you think a fair compensation is roughly 1/3 minimum wage?

    So yes, someone else, somewhere, is paying for your awesome surgery; if they aren't, then it's the doctors who are paying, and getting truly screwed, likely prompting future prospective doctors to go into fields like business instead.

    Don't get me wrong, either, America needs to and inevitably is moving towards socialized medicine. It works better and it makes more sense, even in vehemently capitalistic societies. I'm merely pointing out that you really do need to pay for it somehow, even once costs are minimized. And while $6000 may be ridiculous, there's no way the associated costs I just listed didn't realistically cost a thousand bucks or more. And you paid $15.

  6. #366
    it is cultural, you have to understand that US culture is deeply rooted on competition over cooperation (a relic of cold era when anything that could be twisted remotely into "communism" was deemed bad, such as cooperation, sharing, common good)

    Being based on competition it creates also a deep sense of entitlement, the socialized healthcare means that any bum can get as good health care as the guy who worked his ass off for many years (many still believe that working hard has anything to do with wealth, load of bs) and they see it as unfair, why should the bum have the same rights as the guy who worked hard?

    It is cultural really but luckly a lot of people are starting to think differently, when all the old white men die off old age maybe there will be a lot of change.

  7. #367
    Epic! fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miscer View Post
    Ah yes, that's why I got a supposed 13% pay raise this year, yet I am going to net less this month than I did in December.

    Hurrah for the middle-class, disturbed wealth for everyone!
    Payroll holiday, nothing to do with healthcare costs.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Miscer View Post
    Ah yes, that's why I got a supposed 13% pay raise this year, yet I am going to net less this month than I did in December.

    Hurrah for the middle-class, disturbed wealth for everyone!
    ...I think you mean "Distributed"...

    Though I am trying to picture what "disturbed wealth" is... I'm kinda picturing an "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" kinda horror story with Dollar Bills strangling people.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  9. #369
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    ...I think you mean "Distributed"...

    Though I am trying to picture what "disturbed wealth" is... I'm kinda picturing an "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" kinda horror story with Dollar Bills strangling people.
    Man I was enjoying my morning coffee. Now it's all over my screen from loling. Thank you!
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    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #370
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    Payroll holiday, nothing to do with healthcare costs.
    Not in my case.

    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    ...I think you mean "Distributed"...

    Though I am trying to picture what "disturbed wealth" is... I'm kinda picturing an "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" kinda horror story with Dollar Bills strangling people.
    I think we may have just coined a new catch phrase, lol.

  11. #371
    Epic! fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miscer View Post
    Not in my case.
    Can you clarify? Are insurance cost taken directly off of your paycheck?

  12. #372
    Legendary! Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    Yes. Its called an investment.
    Well I dont want to make that investment. There is nothing in it for me

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 02:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Yes. Currently consists of 12 frigates, 3 destroyers, 4 submarines, 12 coastal defense ships, and various other miscellany.
    Wow, the US has more than that at just one base. I dont know that I would call that a Navy, maybe a flotilla

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 02:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    ...then please enlighten us as to what causes Socialized Medicine in other countries to be much cheaper and yet maintain the same level of care, if not better, than the USA?
    The reason it is much cheaper in other countries is because they limit the amount that will be paid by the government forcing the US to subsidize research into new drugs and procedures by paying the asinine prices we do. Ever wonder why new drugs and medical procedures are never discovered or invented anywhere other than the US?

  13. #373
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Wow, the US has more than that at just one base. I dont know that I would call that a Navy, maybe a flotilla
    Don't be deliberately obtuse. The US has almost ten times the population of Canada. And about 15 times as many ships. So, relative to population, your Navy is about half again as large as ours.

    And we don't choose to bankrupt ourselves with inflated military spending, which is why we have significantly less debt per capita and a much lower current deficit per capita as well.

  14. #374
    Elemental Lord Dezerte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    The reason it is much cheaper in other countries is because they limit the amount that will be paid by the government forcing the US to subsidize research into new drugs and procedures by paying the asinine prices we do. Ever wonder why new drugs and medical procedures are never discovered or invented anywhere other than the US?
    That sounds like a rather bold claim, do you have any reliable source for that information?
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

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  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Don't be deliberately obtuse. The US has almost ten times the population of Canada. And about 15 times as many ships. So, relative to population, your Navy is about half again as large as ours.

    And we don't choose to bankrupt ourselves with inflated military spending, which is why we have significantly less debt per capita and a much lower current deficit per capita as well.
    Was about to say that, not every country is paranoid and afraid of the world, US has the biggest spending on military in the world, it needs several of the other ones together to make it close to the budget.
    If they spend that money on social policies, then the US would be the most advanced country in the world, which it isnt right now... such a enormous waste of resources at the cost of citizens quality of life, then again its a difference in perspective i guess.

    Also not to forget that while the "US" is a "country" realistically it is more akin to the EU than it is to canada, its a joining of many different country-sized states, so its more akin of a continent, to compare US to a country is the same as comparing the EU to a single country, senseless.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 07:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Ever wonder why new drugs and medical procedures are never discovered or invented anywhere other than the US?
    What a load of crap, many advances in medicine were done elsewhere, drugs? yes the US pharma industry is allmighty, but not medicine per se.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    and how much did you make? because in the US, for a year of work with nought but a HS diploma, you'd be hard pressed to be making more than 20k before taxes
    Um not true. Thats all i have and if your willing to work your ass off in a trade i make 70k a ywar in construction. You just have to be willing to work.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    That sounds like a rather bold claim, do you have any reliable source for that information?
    Should know by now he won't provide a source or make a legitimate statement that is true.

  18. #378
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurioxan View Post
    What a load of crap, many advances in medicine were done elsewhere, drugs? yes the US pharma industry is allmighty, but not medicine per se.
    Besides which, most of those pharmacorps are based in the US because the laws regarding taxation and research and such are favorable. It has nothing to do with the price of pills.

  19. #379
    Scarab Lord JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Well I dont want to make that investment. There is nothing in it for me
    Education is an investment we all profit from, even if you do not have kids or plan to not ever have kids, remember that education is providing the future workforce that will pay for your pension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Ever wonder why new drugs and medical procedures are never discovered or invented anywhere other than the US?
    Do you even think about what you are writing before you post? Or do you just look at the American flag and put your hand on your heart before you click "post reply"? America is not the only first world country, and it certainly isn't the country where most scientists come from (they do employ the most scientists tough, but more then half of them are recruited outside US).
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    I'm proud to be xenophobic.
    Quote Originally Posted by qu1rex View Post
    Leaving the EU would not in any way pose a negative impact on the UK's economy or means/ability to trade with countries within the EU.

  20. #380
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Ever wonder why new drugs and medical procedures are never discovered or invented anywhere other than the US?
    My god cut the nationalistic rubbish and do a google search, its nausiating to read this kind of stuff.

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