Has the Horde gone pure evil?

[kingpinuk880]

You really don't get it. Garrosh is not a badass, he's a coward with serious daddy issues.

no i do 'get it'. It just so happens I really Garrosh as a character and think what he is doing is great. Shame we will have to kill him off, if i had the choice I wouldnt. There is isnt much to it to 'get', its not like reading War and Peace or anything

[Faroth]

Nope, the Horde is most certainly not pure evil, nor is Garrosh. That's what people are misinterpreting.

He's not evil, he's simply adopted an "ends justify the means" mentality.
Is he a bad guy? In a lot of ways, yes.
Does he need to be stopped? Oh, without question.
Is he pure evil? I'd argue he isn't. He doesn't want destruction for the sake of destruction. Everything stems from a desire of a better life for the orcs, though he's becoming more and more of a dictator where it's a better life for the orcs under HIS rule, his iron fisted rule. And while I agree that the use of the giant mana bomb on Theramore was a horribly heinous act, I have to admit that tactically he made his intentions of attack in general quite clear and gave ample time for the citizens of the city to be evacuated while drawing military figures in, resulting in a tactical military assault.

Using the mana bomb as opposed to equal combat is debatable depending on your views. I side with Vol'jin and Cairne's opinion but I'm sure others would argue that "all's fair in war."

[Venziir]

no i do 'get it'. It just so happens I really Garrosh as a character and think what he is doing is great. Shame we will have to kill him off, if i had the choice I wouldnt. There is isnt much to it to 'get', its not like reading War and Peace or anything

Garrosh is a horrid character, and I don't mean his actions. He's so one dimensional that even Metzen said he'd never get his own book because it would only contain the word "KILL!". Also, trying to fight a war you can't win, while making sure all your allies wants to kill you - is hardly great, it's moronic.

[Imnick]

Is anyone going to bring up the fact that Anduin only looks dead for Horde characters who leave immediately?
For Alliance ones the quest doesn't complete after he "dies" and you summon a gryphon escort to take him to some healers, he's not dead.

[Venziir]

Is anyone going to bring up the fact that Anduin only looks dead for Horde characters who leave immediately?
For Alliance ones the quest doesn't complete after he "dies" and you summon a gryphon escort to take him to some healers, he's not dead.

Correct, the Horde is left to believe that he is dead (even though his healthbar actually says 1%), while Varian swoops in and has Anduin send to Velen for some proper healing.

[Deleted]

no i do 'get it'. It just so happens I really Garrosh as a character and think what he is doing is great. Shame we will have to kill him off, if i had the choice I wouldnt. There is isnt much to it to 'get', its not like reading War and Peace or anything

Remains to be seen if we will in fact kill him off.

There has been many times in the past we defeated someone as a raid boss if only to "knock some sense into em". Kalec in sunwell, and the Ulduar watchers for example.

Blizzard could pull a Garrosh survival out of the hat if they wanted to and use it as an excuse to re-write the whole character.

[Anjerith]

We all know he wants Sylvannas dead.

Ok, well of your many erroneous statements, I feel I will concentrate on this one. He does not want Sylvanas dead, he wants her to acknowledge that, while she is the leader of the Forsaken, he is the Leader of the Horde - which the Forsaken are a member of. He doesn't want her just popping off on her own.

He feels that the Forsaken are pretty much fodder because they are already dead, are a dime a dozen (from his point of view), but are physically weak and easy to repel. *FROM A LORE POINT OF VIEW* he is absolutely correct. The Forsaken specialize more in the brewing of poisons than they do actual military prowess due to their.. well, being dead. Thus, he doesn't want them dead - he simply wants them to be as useful to the Horde as they can be in the methods of war he conducts.


Now, that scenario occurred a few years ago *IN THE LORE* so, we have no idea of Garrosh's recent Maniacal Super-villain re-write has changed his stance - the Forsaken have played basically no role at all in Pandaria.

[Venziir]

Remains to be seen if we will in fact kill him off.

There has been many times in the past we defeated someone as a raid boss if only to "knock some sense into em". Kalec in sunwell, and the Ulduar watchers for example.

Blizzard could pull a Garrosh survival out of the hat if they wanted to and use it as an excuse to re-write the whole character.

Thing is, both Kalec and the Watchers were good guys who were possessed/corrupted - Garrosh is not.

---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 03:56 PM ----------

Ok, well of your many erroneous statements, I feel I will concentrate on this one. He does not want Sylvanas dead, he wants her to acknowledge that, while she is the leader of the Forsaken, he is the Leader of the Horde - which the Forsaken are a member of. He doesn't want her just popping off on her own.

He feels that the Forsaken are pretty much fodder because they are already dead, are a dime a dozen (from his point of view), but are physically weak and easy to repel. *FROM A LORE POINT OF VIEW* he is absolutely correct. The Forsaken specialize more in the brewing of poisons than they do actual military prowess due to their.. well, being dead. Thus, he doesn't want them dead - he simply wants them to be as useful to the Horde as they can be in the methods of war he conducts.


Now, that scenario occurred a few years ago *IN THE LORE* so, we have no idea of Garrosh's recent Maniacal Super-villain re-write has changed his stance - the Forsaken have played basically no role at all in Pandaria.

One quick thing though about the Forsaken. They are brilliant soldiers, simply because they do not need food or rest and they do not tire from combat either. Which makes them a marvelous fighting force.

[Venant]

Don't people notice that the inevitable outcome on any server where there is a faction imbalance is that eventually the imbalance becomes so extreme there is practically nobody left on the disadvantaged side? Garrosh just wants to do what the majority of horde players want, which is to annihilate everyone playing the enemy faction on their server. All these idiot pacifists like baine/vol'jin are like when your guildmates say 'oh don't kill that alliance he's my buddy.' Garrosh just wants WoW to be like vanilla again, which means hardcore griefing in hillsbrad by groups of 60s until players stopped trying to level alliance characters.

[zoomgpally]

It would seem Garrosh has killed Anduin, among other things, but even if I'm not too familiar with what's up now, do you effectively think the Horde has gone black now?

Because the horde is just one guy, right?
Most of the horde would have Garrosh' head on a pike in Orgrimmar 2 expansions ago...

[Rend Blackhand]

Horde has been corrupted by the Burning Legion. Ragefire Chasm has red orcs in it since Pandaria. The new quest to kill the dark shaman down there also says that this happened for months (not years) and that they don't know what this dark shaman is up to. I think he is corrupting Garrosh with demonic energys from Argus.

I expect the next expansion and the end of this expansion will show that. I also think we will meet the Burning Legion on their home planet Argus.

They are remnants of the Twilight's hammer hiding under Orgrimmar and Garrosh sends you to put them down.


The Horde is evil in the eyes of the Alliance (and always has been, nothing new here.)

The Horde is not evil though. Garrosh does not do what he does for personal power and glory, or expressly to murder and kill. He does it because he believes it is necessary for the Horde's future survival and prosperity. He wants to see the Horde live in a world where they are not threatened by the Alliance and where the Orcs and the allies who are loyal will not starve in Durotar.

[Venziir]

Don't people notice that the inevitable outcome on any server where there is a faction imbalance is that eventually the imbalance becomes so extreme there is practically nobody left on the disadvantaged side? Garrosh just wants to do what the majority of horde players want, which is to annihilate everyone playing the enemy faction on their server. All these idiot pacifists like baine/vol'jin are like when your guildmates say 'oh don't kill that alliance he's my buddy.' Garrosh just wants WoW to be like vanilla again, which means hardcore griefing in hillsbrad by groups of 60s until players stopped trying to level alliance characters.

You do know that on heavy Alliance servers in vanilla, it was the Alliance that was constantly causing grief right? Honestly, on my server you couldn't even try and hide in Tarren Mill.

[Deleted]

Thing is, both Kalec and the Watchers were good guys who were possessed/corrupted - Garrosh is not.

It all depends how Blizzard writes it.

They could go with Garrosh as being fel corrupted since he returned from Outland and we do not know the real man.

[Venziir]

It all depends how Blizzard writes it.

They could go with Garrosh as being fel corrupted since he returned from Outland and we do not know the real man.

Then he wouldn't be brownskinned.

[Deleted]

Then he wouldn't be brownskinned.

A poor example on my part. But my point is they could easily come up with something to save the character.

Varian as a character was saved and was turned from a total dick into someone respectable. They can always do the same for Garrosh by having a dreadlord pop out during the fight much like Blanazzar and the Garrosh we know turns out to not be the real man.

[Zaelsino]

A poor example on my part. But my point is they could easily come up with something to save the character.

Varian as a character was saved and was turned from a total dick into someone respectable. They can always do the same for Garrosh by having a dreadlord pop out during the fight much like Blanazzar and the Garrosh we know turns out to not be the real man.

Wouldn't that strike you as a massive cop out? :x

[Unholyground]

I have not really kept up to date with WoW, but as of 5.2, I plan on returning.

It would seem Garrosh has killed Anduin, among other things, but even if I'm not too familiar with what's up now, do you effectively think the Horde has gone black now?

Garrosh was conceived while Grom was still tainted by the demon blood. Garrosh is part Demon. He is being manipulated by Demonic forces. He is the leader and has many followers within the Horde, we cannot dispatch him yet and we will need the Alliances help to do so.

[poxyoxy]

Anduin was on 1 hp after he was hit that is the wow devs way of saying he is not really dead.

[Venziir]

Garrosh was conceived while Grom was still tainted by the demon blood. Garrosh is part Demon. He is being manipulated by Demonic forces. He is the leader and has many followers within the Horde, we cannot dispatch him yet and we will need the Alliances help to do so.

Incorrect. Garrosh was born before the demon taint. He was put in "childcare" with all the other weak infancts who all suffered from the Red Pox. Also, orcs turn green from just being near fel-energy, imagine how funky a half-demon orc would actually look.

---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 04:55 PM ----------

Anduin was on 1 hp after he was hit that is the wow devs way of saying he is not really dead.

Not to mention the Alliance version, where Varian actually saves his son and says he's still alive... So yeah.

[Caribald]

"The Horde" has, all the members of the Horde haven't.