1. #1

    Silly question,but still a question

    Right.As we all know slam is supposed to do far more damage than hc strike arms-wise.However,anytime I spend my rage on slam I end up with poor dps overal,while when I spend my rage on HC strike I end up with a decent number.How is this even possible?
    I know it's a noobish question,but help would be much appreciated.Got 490 ilvl and my dps is stuck on 80k :S
    -nope,I dont have the sha touched weapon yet.

  2. #2
    The only answers are either ridiculous RNG giving your Heroic Strike tons of crits, or RNG giving you a very high up-time for Taste for Blood pumped Heroic Strikes.

    Generally speaking, it shouldn't be a matter of either or. Generally speaking, it's a matter of AND. Unless you have a couple stacks of Taste for Blood and not enough Rage for both.

  3. #3
    Depends how you use HS, i mean with atleast 1 stack of TFB HS does more damage than slam and it's not on GCD, otherwise use slam, altho arms is not quite the way to go for PVE at the moment imo. I find fury way better even for cleave fights... but if you enjoy arms and you're not a hardcore raider or so, just do some testing and get used to spending those TFB stacks better.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by retailgamers View Post
    Depends how you use HS, i mean with atleast 1 stack of TFB HS does more damage than slam and it's not on GCD, otherwise use slam, altho arms is not quite the way to go for PVE at the moment imo. I find fury way better even for cleave fights... but if you enjoy arms and you're not a hardcore raider or so, just do some testing and get used to spending those TFB stacks better.
    thanks for the info and help,however there is no need to disgrace me like that though.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retailgamers View Post
    I find fury way better even for cleave fights... but if you enjoy arms and you're not a hardcore raider or so, just do some testing and get used to spending those TFB stacks better.
    I still don't understand why people keep saying this, as it's simply not the case. Arms is even easier to gear for as you only need one decent weapon, instead of two for fury. This only is enough in most situations to make Arms better for the average player.

    On a higher level, progression, Arms is still very close to Fury - so close that it will really depend on how well you have mastered one spec, and not that much on Fury or Arms being better than the other.

    What is generally true is, Fury tend to have a greater and higher bursts than Arms (when you get a bit lucky with RNG) whilst Arms will give you a more steady and regular DPS, with a slightly lower burst phases.
    But your overall DPS and damage done will really depend on how well you play any of these two specs, and what weapons you have at your disposal, and really not on Fury being ''way better'' than Arms.
    Last edited by L Kebess; 2013-01-21 at 02:09 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Kebess View Post
    On a higher level, progression, Arms is still very close to Fury - so close that it will really depend on how well you have mastered one spec, and not that much on Fury or Arms being better than the other.
    Fight variations, rng and sims are what they are, but 12k(19k BiS) difference in normal bis is not "very close", its a huge gap, if you ask me

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwish View Post
    thanks for the info and help,however there is no need to disgrace me like that though.
    After reading what he wrote several times, can you point out where he "disgraced" you? I simply cannot see anything there but good advice o.O
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome L Kebess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Fight variations, rng and sims are what they are, but 12k(19k BiS) difference in normal bis is not "very close", its a huge gap, if you ask me
    From experience, I can tell you at no point you will find a 12K (19K) difference between Amrs and Fury, at an equal ilvl and somewhat gameplay. I don't trust sims at all to make these sort of comparison. Arms rotation can be very complicated when you want to get it right. A sim based on a simple priority list doesn't come close to show every aspect of the spec, sadly.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Kebess View Post
    From experience, I can tell you at no point you will find a 12K (19K) difference between Amrs and Fury, at an equal ilvl and somewhat gameplay. I don't trust sims at all to make these sort of comparison. Arms rotation can be very complicated when you want to get it right. A sim based on a simple priority list doesn't come close to show every aspect of the spec, sadly.
    Yes, i agree it cant be trusted completely but it gives an educated indication of how it is.
    Looking at 3 random bosses from each instance it reflects the sims pretty good.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/.../Fury_Warrior/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/.../Fury_Warrior/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/.../Fury_Warrior/
    All of them show a big disparity between specs.

    Now im sure you'll give me a good reason why i shouldn't look at logs either, and i dont have the experince you do (dont raid anymore..) but it does look like a fairly big gap to me
    Last edited by santa666; 2013-01-21 at 05:25 PM.

  10. #10
    More and better players play fury => big disparity. Fury also scales better than Arms so the higher ilv the bigger the gap will be.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by OscaR View Post
    More and better players play fury => big disparity. Fury also scales better than Arms so the higher ilv the bigger the gap will be.
    Sample bias was also clearly seen for example when fire mages got nerfed and a lot of people went arcane recently. Even though arcane didn't get any over-the-top buffs, the parses went through the roof due to more good mages playing the spec rather than fire. This makes rankings based on logs somewhat unreliable in cases where one spec is clearly favoured over the other in the top end parses.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Yes, i agree it cant be trusted completely but it gives an educated indication of how it is.
    Looking at 3 random bosses from each instance it reflects the sims pretty good.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/.../Fury_Warrior/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/.../Fury_Warrior/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/.../Fury_Warrior/
    All of them show a big disparity between specs.

    Now im sure you'll give me a good reason why i shouldn't look at logs either, and i dont have the experince you do (dont raid anymore..) but it does look like a fairly big gap to me
    Its quite simple, fury is slightly ahead of arms and therefore people in progressing guild and dedicated warriors will go for fury instead of arms, showing numbers like 95% furywarrs ect ect becuase thats what people play - simple becuase the spec is a bit better.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadde111 View Post
    Its quite simple, fury is slightly ahead of arms and therefore people in progressing guild and dedicated warriors will go for fury instead of arms, showing numbers like 95% furywarrs ect ect becuase thats what people play - simple becuase the spec is a bit better.
    That was my point, if majority of the community plays fury, cause its superior, the gap is not small, if it was small it would be a lot more even, cause people would play what they enjoy, not the spec that clearly does more dps, even at equal player skill.

  14. #14
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    But you can also see from those logs, that there are people with close to BiS Gear for both specs, that have been performing much better as Fury than as Arms.
    Maybe they are not as used to Arms Rotations and thus performing below max level, but this cant be the lone reason for 20-30k differences on alot of fights.
    Arms obviously scales bad with secondary stats and only as good as fury with strength and weapon dps. This leads to worse dps in BiS gear even tho both specs are equally potent in blue dungeon gear.

    For the average player with lfr/normal gear this might be irrelevant tho. The difference is much smaller at this gearlevel and actually feeling comfortable with the spec and knowing what to do during the encounter is much more important to personal dps.

    Also there are still some fights where arms is viable to compete with fury. The statements above are only true, when most of the time is spend in melee range of a single target. Heavy movement has a much bigger impact on Fury Dps than on Arms dps, also AoE is very much equal.

  15. #15
    One of the reasons fury logs higher top parses is the higher degree of rng involved, i.e. there is a larger variation between a lucky streak of crits and a dry spell compared to the relatively more even performance of arms. Difference in average dps is a lot lower than the difference between top parses that include a significant rng element.

    This is not to argue against the fact that fury has higher potential, just to explain some of the gap between top parses. Same has been the case for fire mages in e.g. the DS rankings, where all top logs were fire mages that had hit a lucky spell of crits that inflate dps significantly and gave it a fairly skewed picture compared to the average performance of fire mages in that tier.
    Last edited by Delath; 2013-01-22 at 10:57 AM.

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