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  1. #1

    Handling farm content with 16 bosses (what do you do?)

    So this may not be an issue for 3 or 4 night a week guilds but an alt guild that I raid lead raids only 2 nights a week, we are currently 9/16H and working on our 10th right now. The problem I encounter is finding time to do farm content and still get good progression time with 8 hrs a week. In DS this wasn't an issue as we had only 8 bosses to kill in one raid (we actually started on 1 day a week, 4 hrs. I convinced them to raid an extra night because of how big the tier was and that we'd have no time for farm).

    So my question to you guys is, do you have a similar dilemma or have you in the past? And how do/did you deal with?


    This week we skipped pretty much all farm so that we could work on heroic Amber Shaper (and we said if we kill this boss we'll do farm), sadly we didnt kill him (got a very depressing 18% wipe in phase 3 when a kiter died as the globule ran through group and it immediately refixated and blew up on someone else). Some people seemed fine to skip farm but it also pissed a few of our raiders off, and I can understand that not getting a shot at the loot each week which is a huge reason for a lot of people to raid could be kind of annoying.

  2. #2
    People are pissed at skipping farm because they have the foresight to know that, while you may be making enrage timers and stuff just fine right now, what happens when you get to Heroic Empress and Sha of Fear? Missing that 10-20% raid DPS you get from your entire raid being several ilvls behind (which is what will happen if you skip repeatedly) is going to hurt later down the road. If you want both the gear and the experience on each fight, you simply need to play more. You're not going to get by in the top 2% of guilds (number of normal Stone Guard guilds divided by Heroic Amber-Shaper so far) by only playing 8 hours a week, or if you do you won't be there for very long. Raiding isn't really an 8 hour a week gig, if it was, there'd by a lot more people raiding. It sucks if you don't have that kind of time, but most of the people playing this game do.

  3. #3
    This tier is so large that that's one of the downsides. We've taken to occasionally skipping a bit of farm in favor of progression, but you've got to reach a balancing point of skipping vs. getting that farm down. It helps to know what upgrades are most useful so you know where to focus the farm, if it comes to that and your raiding schedule is especially strapped for time. Is the only thing people really need out of MV DPS trinkets? Could just plow straight up to Elegon and knock it over, then go elsewhere. Primarily want tier and sha weapons? Knock over terrace and then focus on the other progression.

    16 bosses is a lot o' bosses, and I both love it and hate it, personally. Hopefully 13 bosses feels 'just right,' though I suspect a lot of that feeling will just be in encounter design...

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  4. #4
    Mostly you should be able to skip MSV and amber shaper + empress if you dont feel you have the time to clear up after you have done enough tries. However it is essential that you clear terrace (and the bosses up to amber shaper) as that should still have a ton of upgrades for your raid.

  5. #5
    I don't think there is an easy solution to this if your guild can't (or is unwilling to) extend its raid schedule beyond 2 nights.

  6. #6
    We have tried having a sunday night farm clear night but when I asked if people could make it half of them didn't want to do it, I know several of them work in the mornings on the weekday and we are a late night raiding guild (10pm-2am) so staying up that late is not good for many of our raiders on sundays or any day not fri-sat basically.

    Just want to be able to get 16/16H before the next tier hits so thats my primary concern, and obviously I dont want to skip so much farm that we miss out on a big chunk of gear that might help us kill sha. I think we are more than geared enough to kill pretty much any boss leading up to sha though.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Mostly you should be able to skip MSV and amber shaper + empress if you dont feel you have the time to clear up after you have done enough tries. However it is essential that you clear terrace (and the bosses up to amber shaper) as that should still have a ton of upgrades for your raid.
    Oh yes, I did forget to mention the one thing that can actually help you. If you need to skip something, skip MSV as it has naturally worse loot and very few BiS pieces apart from the trinkets.

  8. #8
    First of all, I rather have much to do and having to make choices and get a balance between farming content or progressing. It actually is very time consuming to get it all done, specially for some guilds without many raid nights.

    Honestly, its quite easy to 'outgear' most content, specially with the possible upgrade of gear, so i'd give more emphasis on progress instead of farming. If however, you are lacking strong or important items from some bosses, make sure to farm those. From MSV in particular i'd say the trinkets are fairly important and without alternatives... other then that, not really important to keep farming it.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Jaceo's Avatar
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    You need to set a goal and stick with it. If the guild's goal is 16/16h and time is your enemy with only 2 raid nights then drop some farm kills. If youre struggling to beat enrages etc and you think you need more gear then ensure you fit farm bosses in.

    Raiders will be frustrated either way, don’t progress and they will run out of epics to acquire, don’t kill farm content and they will miss out on some epics. You will have to find a balance which might be 1-1.5 nights focused on progression and 0.5-1 night on farm.

    We dropped MsV a couple weeks ago, focus on progression early in the week while we are fresh and then switch to farm when we have had enough. Some weeks we might skip farm content as we are close to a progression kill and some weeks we need a break from progression and just have a fun boss killing night.

  10. #10
    You can save a MSV lockout at 4/6 H with an alt. Then each week you only have to clear H Elegon and H Will for the useful loot.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    You can save a MSV lockout at 4/6 H with an alt. Then each week you only have to clear H Elegon and H Will for the useful loot.
    This or skip MSV all together. There's a lot of BiS healer gear and DPS trinkets in MSV, but the difference between them and an equivalent from HoF or ToES is minor. Once the majority of your raiders are 502+, you do not need more gear to clear all the content. More gear will make it easier, but it's not necessary.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    This or skip MSV all together. There's a lot of BiS healer gear and DPS trinkets in MSV, but the difference between them and an equivalent from HoF or ToES is minor. Once the majority of your raiders are 502+, you do not need more gear to clear all the content. More gear will make it easier, but it's not necessary.
    Not only that, but Darkmoon trinkets for most classes are usually only barely edged out by the 502 trinkets, and even then only replaced once someone gets the 509 AND 502 at the same time. If you have to choose between progressing to more 509 gear or farming up more 502 gear and gear isn't the limiting issue for killing bosses, you should probably choose the progression.

  13. #13
    This is part of the reason Blizzard tried making smaller raids or less raid bosses. Then they went and gave us 16 and ppl are getting upset or left wondering how they do it all. For us we either alternate week to week skipping HoF or MSV if time is that big of an issue. Besides that we try to fit in bosses that still have multiple upgrades for ppl or large upgrades for ppl like bis items. Elegon for example as old and boring as that fight has become it has trinkets ppl still need so its on the do as much as we can list. If it were entirely up to me I wouldn't go back into HoF again it is one of my least favorite raids going all the way back to BC. I don't enjoy almost any of it really and the first 3 bosses drop junk for our set up.
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  14. #14
    As others have said most of it will be MSV. If you're taking too long to clear it and/or people only need elegon stuff, just either clear up to it on normal, or pay someone for an elegon raid ID. MSV can be as short as an hour-hour and a half, or as long as an entire night. Have a discussion with your guild about who needs MSV versus who needs Elegon, and find a consensus.

    Terrace, unless you're still semi-struggling on H Lei Shi, is also very quick considering the gear people may need in there. The biggest way you're gonna move forward is to aim for 1 night farm content 1 night progression.

  15. #15
    MSV can take an hour or a whole night, depends if people feel like being idiots on Spirit Kings or Will. If you find MSV is taking up a whole night, just ditch it from your schedule, at least for a little while. I wouldn't skip 509 drop farm though, especially since Blade, Garalon and Wind should all be 1 or 2 shots.

    16 bosses does feel a bit overwhelming, but I'm not complaining about too much content. I think next tier will be perfect with 10-12 (11?) bosses in one instance.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 08:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gande View Post
    aim for 1 night farm content 1 night progression.
    This. Just say on your first night you will farm as much as possible. The next night just go straight to progression, if you missed farm from the previous night because people showed up late or caused stupid wipes, it's their problem.

    One night of progression per week is more than enough to make steady progession. Now that people are more geared and strategies are easy to find bosses fall over pretty quick, we got Vizier and Amber in 1 night each.
    Last edited by Dorfie; 2013-01-14 at 08:45 AM.

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    You can save a MSV lockout at 4/6 H with an alt. Then each week you only have to clear H Elegon and H Will for the useful loot.
    How exactly does one do that? Log in the Alt when the Mainraid has cleared 4/6 - then accept the ID - log back out and clear the Content with Mainraid. Next week, extend the ID from the Alt and have your Mainraid use it so only clear 5/6? Next Week Rinse & Repeat? Or can you even keep the ID on the alt and just extend it every week and give it to the mainraid?

    Haven't done something like that yet, so Im curious as to how exactly that works. Might be useful for us!
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-01-14 at 09:31 AM.

  17. #17
    Depends on if it really is "farm" content. If you raid efficietly you can clear all farm content in 1 night.

    The raid team I'm in raids 6 hours a week (mon/wed 3 hours each night). We are currently 10/16H. About a month ago we were doing 4/4N ToES, then 6/6H MSV - all in 3 hours. Then the whole second night would be HoF progression. We've now changed this and do HoF progression on both wed/mon nights and there is an additional night on Sundays (semi alt run or raiders from the guilds other team) who clear ToES normal and MSVH H.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    How exactly does one do that? Log in the Alt when the Mainraid has cleared 4/6 - then accept the ID - log back out and clear the Content with Mainraid. Next week, extend the ID from the Alt and have your Mainraid use it so only clear 5/6? Next Week Rinse & Repeat? Or can you even keep the ID on the alt and just extend it every week and give it to the mainraid?

    Haven't done something like that yet, so Im curious as to how exactly that works. Might be useful for us!
    With the "flexible raid-lockout system," lockouts are bound to each character. Lets say you save 4/6 H on an alt this week and leave raid on the alt. Proceed to clear 6/6 H with the mains. Next week, extend the alt's 4/6 H lockout, set the alt as raid leader, zone in with mains. Have the alt leave and clear with main raid again. Your alt will forever be at 4/6 H because he will only get saved (to 5/6 H or 6/6 H) if he was present for the boss kill. This has the benefit of allowing you to do H Will without having to waste time on H Spirit Kings.

    This is the same method used by people who save time on mount farming H Lich King or Yogg Saron.

  19. #19
    We started skipping MSV, it's not nearly as important as a lot of the gear in HoF/ToES

  20. #20
    Do you DE all the MSV loot? There ya go :P

    We skip MSV unless we finish everything else for the week including whatever progression bosses were scheduled for us to do.

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