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  1. #1
    Scarab Lord GreatOak's Avatar
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    Bill Clinton's Advice to Obama

    ...concerning gun ownership

    *There are generations of sensitivities and defensive walls that have been constructed and nurtured by the cultural disrespect exhibited by those who do not understand nor appreciate the importance of guns in various parts of the country. Unfortunately, Obama’s words played right into these sensitivities. Indeed, the President’s ‘off the cuff’ remark to a group of supporters who, in all likelihood, shared a disrespect for rural gun owners, may have permanently waived Obama’s opportunity to take on the leadership role in any effort to engage a meaningful discussion on guns. By placing the perils of cultural disrespect and the evil of supposed moral superiority on the table, President Clinton has not only cut right to the heart of why we cannot have rational discussion of gun violence in America but identifies a polluting factor that exceeds even the damaging tactics and narratives furthered by the NRA.
    Clinton says,
    "Do not patronize the passionate supporters of your opponents by looking down your nose at them,” said Clinton. “A lot of these people live in a world very different from the world lived in by the people proposing these things. I know because I come from this world."
    And the article continues
    One simply cannot disrespect an entire culture and then seek to be the one to convince these very same people of the righteousness of making large changes to that culture in the name of the public good.*My own background is such that I simply cannot grasp why so many people want these high-powered weapons in their home. However, just because the President doesn’t get it…or I don’t get it…or you don’t get it…doesn’t make it wrong. *Millions of Americans who are continuing a tradition that is important to them cannot be deemed “wrong” when they are breaking no laws *nor harming any individual in the pursuit of what matters to them—no matter why it matters to them.
    Thoughts? I think he's right, and his advice applies to anything really. Obama would be wise to listen to President Clinton.*

    People wonder why the discussion about gun control is so polarizing when this is the answer. *You cannot be dismissive and insulting towards people who have done no harm, and only practice a time tested tradition. Nobody likes being insulted, especially when they have done nothing wrong. One of the reasons Clinton was successful at a lot of things and Obama isn't is because of a subtle arrogance and lack of empathy. Clinton is respected by nearly everyone because of how he treats people. He never called millions of people who support gun rights bitter partisans who cling to religion and guns.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...n-gun-culture/
    If you really want to freak people the fuck out you have to pepper your schemes with mind-boggling inefficiency.

  2. #2
    ...I'm more interested in seeing how many Republicans who formerly wanted Clinton impeached will now praise him for this.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  3. #3
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    I think it's fair to bag on the NRA; they've allotted themselves a particular level of respect and don't seem intent on changing that. As for gun owners at large, or any discussion between two opposing sides, it should be obvious that in order for progress to be made you must treat the sincere opposition with respect. When you come out swinging and calling them juvenile, arrogant, ignorant, stuck in the past, or whatever other insult you've made up, it sets an aggressive tone for the discussion, and that's not an environment for progress to be made.

  4. #4
    It looks to me like he is using this advice. The administration hasn't disrespected any gun owners. The only things that have been said are that the checks done before someone gets a gun need to be done better, schools and mental health need looking after, and a recommendation to ban assault weapon sales and limit magazine sizes. Some other politicians have passed judgement on gun owners as crazy gun toting hicks but they are the state and local governments that conservatives love so much. The only real problem is that these people get riled up about anything he does, which he has no control over, because of Fox News spin.

    The president would be smart to take advice from Clinton on how to deal with a republican legislature. Stop trying to pass huge "grand design" bills that have that one clause the republicans will scrap the whole bill for. Pass smaller bills that contain things they cant possibly vote against or they would look stupid. For example dont roll up all the gun control measures(including assault weapons ban) into one bill. Pass a bill for widespread background checks, law abiding citizens arent denied their guns and it makes sure the wrong people dont get them, no responsible person would think this is a bad idea. Same thing with law enforcement integration with the ATF/FBI so the background checks can be more thorough.

    Also IDK if you can say owning a modern military style semi-auto rifle is a way of life. Owning guns, yes, but these weapons have only been around in peoples houses for 20 or so years. Their way of life would not be affected much by not having them since thee are non-assault style alternatives like semi-autos with built in magazines.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    ...I'm more interested in seeing how many Republicans who formerly wanted Clinton impeached will now praise him for this.


    Being impeached for lying really has nothing to do with his perspective/thoughts on gun control.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Being impeached for lying really has nothing to do with his perspective/thoughts on gun control.
    Well...there's the first one! ^_^
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  7. #7
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Being impeached for lying really has nothing to do with his perspective/thoughts on gun control.
    Yet he wasn't convicted for perjury. It was nothing more than a spending spree by Republicans.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  8. #8
    Elemental Lord Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    ...I'm more interested in seeing how many Republicans who formerly wanted Clinton impeached will now praise him for this.
    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume this is your way of saying "I think that any meaningful discussion that could possibly affect any change to the gun violence situation in the United States must put aside all partisan affiliations and focus on the issue at hand, rather than becoming a divisive "us, vs. them" debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Well...there's the first one! ^_^
    And that by this you mean "I'd like to cross that precipice, because I for one am more interested in solving the issues at hand than stroking my own ego by starting a contemptuous and irrelevant argument with people of opposing political views, since that is counterproductive and can only close peoples minds to compromise".

    Great point sir, I applaud you.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Being impeached for lying really has nothing to do with his perspective/thoughts on gun control.
    They didnt like him because he was a democrat. They would have impeached him with anything they were able to find on him. They even spent years investigating a real estate scandal that only Hillary had any relation to just so they could find something on him. They would do the same thing to the current president but there is nothing they can dig up on him to do it. (hence all of the birther bs)

  10. #10
    Didn't Clinton sign an assault rifle ban into effect during his presidency?

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord GreatOak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    ...I'm more interested in seeing how many Republicans who formerly wanted Clinton impeached will now praise him for this.
    I'm not a republican or a democrat but I never had a problem with Clinton as a person. His policies weren't as bad as Obamas either
    If you really want to freak people the fuck out you have to pepper your schemes with mind-boggling inefficiency.

  12. #12
    I have never thought too highly of democrats in general, but Clinton was a hell of a lot better of a president than Obama ever will be.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord GreatOak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarFalcon1 View Post
    Didn't Clinton sign an assault rifle ban into effect during his presidency?
    Yeah and it really didn't do anything to help. All it did was kill the careers of some people who voted for it. Clinton knows it was a bad piece of law
    If you really want to freak people the fuck out you have to pepper your schemes with mind-boggling inefficiency.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
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    Clinton should've been the worlds president.
    WBMA - Leave our beards alone

    Skype, PS3 & Steam - Whiteington

    Battletag - Whitey#2918 - feel free to add me, I'm a social animal

  15. #15
    Obama's advice to Clinton: "Don't cheat on your wife".

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    Clinton should've been the worlds president.
    I think people need to stop hero-worshiping politicians and start becoming more involved in the political process through means other than voting. (i.e. candidate selection)

    Because if you are voting for candidates selected by somebody else, are you really exercising your democratic rights to their fullest extent?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Clinton knows it was a bad piece of law.
    Do you have a source for that or just a feeling from his remarks?

    I do think the article makes a valid point, there are people who grow up with guns and some that actually need them. I also don't think a ban will do anything more than piss people off. We need to regulate who gets guns and how they are stored.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord GreatOak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarFalcon1 View Post
    Do you have a source for that or just a feeling from his remarks?

    I do think the article makes a valid point, there are people who grow up with guns and some that actually need them. I also don't think a ban will do anything more than piss people off. We need to regulate who gets guns and how they are stored.

    I don't have a concrete source but I remember reading an interview where he said he messed up in passing that law. It could've meant he thought it wasn't strong enough, but knowing Clinton's background I bet it was the opposite.
    If you really want to freak people the fuck out you have to pepper your schemes with mind-boggling inefficiency.

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    That was a great piece of insight. This part really struck me:

    "My own background is such that I simply cannot grasp why so many people want these high-powered weapons in their home. However, just because the President doesn’t get it…or I don’t get it…or you don’t get it…doesn’t make it wrong. Millions of Americans who are continuing a tradition that is important to them cannot be deemed “wrong” when they are breaking no laws nor harming any individual in the pursuit of what matters to them—no matter why it matters to them."

    Over the course of the past week I have gone from being all for banning assault rifles, to not wanting to see any more rights taken away.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Well...there's the first one! ^_^
    So, you're a Clinton champion, too? Why am I not surprised. Probably also think he was the first President since Regan to run a surplus... lol

    I think Clinton had one other piece of advice: We need more young talent at these inaugurations.




    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Yet he wasn't convicted for perjury. It was nothing more than a spending spree by Republicans.

    Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean it didn't happen. They wanted to lynch Herman Cain for the same thing, but Clinton is in the clear for doing it while holding office? Hilarious.

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