1. #1

    [Mage] Question (Windlord Heroic)

    When the boss is afflicted by the 600% damage taken debuff, will any dots (ignite/combustion) cleave onto the adds at their buffed value or become reduced? Thanks..

  2. #2
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyuna View Post
    When the boss is afflicted by the 600% damage taken debuff, will any dots (ignite/combustion) cleave onto the adds at their buffed value or become reduced? Thanks..
    Ignite will work weird. Because your primary spells (e.g., Fireball, Pyroblast, etc) are hitting for 600% more damage, Ignite becomes higher. Let's just say your mastery is 50% and your Fireball hits for 20k, so your normal ignites are 10k. 600% more would make it 10k but deal 70k (10k x 7 = 70k). But, because your primary spells hit for 7x more, now your Fireball hits for 140k, but your new ignite becomes that 70k, BUT, he also takes 600% more damage, meaning your new ignite is still 70k, but actually deals 490k damage (70k x 7 = 490k).

    When you transfer that 70k, the Adds will get the 70k, but because they don't have the debuff, they will only deal 70k each while the boss will take 70k + 600% more damage.

    Combustion works in the same exact way because Ignite is simply halved and becomes the new value for it.

    Essentially, the adds don't get the 600% damage benefit, but because of how Ignite/Combustion works, they will take higher DoT damage.


    The way of Damage Taken debuffs is really weird when you cast a spell that can essentially double dip, such as Fireball/Pyroblast leaving a % DoT on the target. Because the spell is higher from Damage Taken, Ignite will be higher too. In addition to simply BEING higher, it will deal EVEN HIGHER damage because it gets to "double dip" the damage taken debuff.



    TL;DR: Ignite and Combustion, because they are based off your primary attacks will cleave their higher-than-usual amounts to adds, but WILL NOT transfer an additional 600% on top of the original 600% (Wind Lord gets the 3600% more damage from Ignite/Combustion; Adds only get the original 600%). Living Bomb is unaffected by this at all, except it will deal 600% additional damage to Wind Lord. The explosion also will deal 600% additional damage to Wind Lord, but it's normal damage to adds.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-01-22 at 12:59 AM.

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    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    It's like against Amber-shaper, it was possible to spread Combustion from the boss with debuff to the Monstruosity. Killing it very quickly.
    Hit was hotfixed to work like Dragon say.
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  4. #4
    btw dragon, minor thing, but its not a debuff, its a buff =). not that it makes a difference though.

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    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    Blizzard nerfed a good chunk of all the cleaving "things".. except for rogues.

    Thanks broken combustion, and Garalon.. its been fun!
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  6. #6
    Is fire the goto spec for Winlord heroic? Arcane seems to not be strong here at all for obvious reasons.

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    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arghh151 View Post
    Is fire the goto spec for Winlord heroic? Arcane seems to not be strong here at all for obvious reasons.
    I haven't done the fight yet but the general rules for which mage spec to use is:
    1 target: Arcane
    2-3 targets: Fire
    4+ targets: Frost
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Arghh151 View Post
    Is fire the goto spec for Winlord heroic? Arcane seems to not be strong here at all for obvious reasons.
    I use arcane here just because i can burst whenever i want to( during the +600% dmg) since you need a big ignite as fire. We do it with 2 mages 1 fire and 1 arcane, im arcane and dead last on dps till the first set of adds die then i use CD's and literally shoot up to #1.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gronors View Post
    I use arcane here just because i can burst whenever i want to( during the +600% dmg) since you need a big ignite as fire. We do it with 2 mages 1 fire and 1 arcane, im arcane and dead last on dps till the first set of adds die then i use CD's and literally shoot up to #1.
    10m? In 25 I usually sit at 10-12 until first reck phase, then i can usually make top 2. I never ever ever ever beat our tank, he does like 800k dps. If you go from last to first on damage id venture to say your guildmates arent maximising damage.

    @OP: Fire will help kill adds faster, Arcane will deal more boss damage during reck phases.

  10. #10
    Ye in 10 man, our tank has issues doing dps and some of our dps arent maximising their dps thats true.

  11. #11
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Fire is better for meter whoring; Arcane is better for progression.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Arghh151 View Post
    Is fire the goto spec for Winlord heroic? Arcane seems to not be strong here at all for obvious reasons.
    I do wind-lord as arcane just because I don't feel like changing gems/reforges. I did it first with a haste-build arcane completely 6charge camping, keeping NT on everything and just throwing in missiles/AB's on the primary dps target. Our most recent kill I was using mastery-build arcane, and used ABarr cleave when recklessness was NOT up and regular single target 6charge camping during reck. Mastery build definitely beat out haste overall.

    If your group has trouble getting adds down, go fire or frost. Our group was fine with 2 spriests, a warlock, a rogue and my mage, so as soon as the first recklessness faded, the next pack of adds died.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyuna View Post
    When the boss is afflicted by the 600% damage taken debuff, will any dots (ignite/combustion) cleave onto the adds at their buffed value or become reduced? Thanks..
    If you want see big crazy numbers all over your monitor go for fire. If you want do effective dmg go for arcane. People stilll think cleave is srong on this fight, but no cleave isnt strong. Mobs share their hp. Aoe and clave always do less dmg then single target (arcane) skills. Thrre isnt any reason go for cleave since mobs share their hp.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    That why, you can do it as frost since there isn't any difference between single or cleave target in the rotation.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Arghh151 View Post
    Is fire the goto spec for Winlord heroic? Arcane seems to not be strong here at all for obvious reasons.

    Arcane is excellent here, the key is to spec into Living Bomb, and glyph Fire Blast and Arcane Power.
    Arcane Power glyphed let's you do the increased damage throughout the entire reckless phase. As long as you save your alter time macro, pot, and lust for it, it's brilliant. Off the jump just use pre pot and Images, and go 6 stacks drop with barrage twice while all your trinkets are procced, then continue with a AB + X rotation while scorch weaving waiting for reckless.

    Also I'm speaking from a 25man Heroic PoV, we get about 3 reckless phases throughout the encounter, The first and the last one, I get to use my Alter Time Macro. The 2nd one I just fish for as many missile procs as I can while spreading LB after every explosion.

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    Last edited by KoolKidKaos; 2013-01-31 at 12:09 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndor View Post
    If you want see big crazy numbers all over your monitor go for fire. If you want do effective dmg go for arcane. People stilll think cleave is srong on this fight, but no cleave isnt strong. Mobs share their hp. Aoe and clave always do less dmg then single target (arcane) skills. Thrre isnt any reason go for cleave since mobs share their hp.
    I don't get your point here?

    Just because they share health means nothing...

    - Lets say I get a combustion on the boss and spread it to 3 adds, and that combustion is going to run its course of 2.5million damage per add
    - Lets say for arguments sake, an add has 15m health shared between 3 of them

    If my combustion is on all 3 adds, it doesnt just do 2.5m damage to that add set as it is a shared health pool, it still does 7.5m damage to that add set, just spread on the 3 targets instead of one so overall it does significantly more damage to that add set than if I was single targeting because I can tell you now, no Mage in the world can do 7.5m damage to a single add in 20 seconds....

    Unless I am missing something here? Which I could be so excuse my ignorance if I am hehe, but I honestly don't get what you mean
    Last edited by Pspsully; 2013-02-01 at 07:21 PM.

  17. #17
    im using arcane specc on windlord hc. Use LB with fire blast on adds, dps the appropriate add, or boss. when 600% buff is up, i burst, dealing 3.9 million crits. Throughout the fight i spellsteal the quickening aswell, and still manage to pull around 400k dps overall when fight is over. I go as high as 480k dps when bursting. thats with ilvl 497. So imo, arcane is pretty good on windlord.

    As for arcane power glyphed, u should see the length of the fight and adjust it accordingly, if its 6 or 9 minutes, use it glyphed if its more than 6 but less than 9, use it non glyphed cause ull get that 15 seconds more, since non glyphed AP has 1.5 minute CD.
    Last edited by Akiris; 2013-02-02 at 09:06 AM.

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