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  1. #141
    I like that they are adding more way to earn Elder Charm
    I don't like the they are tied to RNG of a drop in a reward
    Someone lucky will get 7, someone unlucky Zero
    If they want to balance the drop to 3-4 elder charm, why can't they just add a weekly quest in the new hub that rewards you with 3-4 of those?
    This way the only RNG left is on the coin roll, not the coin acquisition

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    @khalltusk: Why does there have to be a limit on getting them elsewhere? Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure you can already get to the 90/week in a single day with dailies right now. If burnout it the problem, putting a cap on how many you can get from more fun methods is not a way to fix it.

    Why does there have to be a focus on dailies? If the story is such a compelling draw, why does it need such are rare commodity associated with it? If people actually care about the story, won't they play for the story?
    I've tried explaining this a few times.

    Dailies when you first ding 90 there are only a few factions available. If you make dungeons/scenarios (as an example) able to get dailies in 1 day you could only do it in a few ways.

    Option a) Scenarios and dungeons have no limit on how many charms they give and they give you say 5 per dungeon. You would have to run a LOT of dungeons to get the charms, this could lead to burn out as shown by you and other players. Charms are optional but you feel they are mandatory. This leads to you maxing them out ASAP. Same for rep farming in cata and wrath. It was "mandatory" by a lot of people to get the rewards. Reality was it was not.

    Option b) No limit on them in dungeons/scenarios but increase the amount of charms you get per run so you get 10 or say 25 per run.

    Option a while probably not better than dailies will lead to a lot of burn out as most players have no self control and will consume their way through it fast.
    option b will make dungeons/scenarios better than dailies and dailies will not be used as much as people will use dungeons/scenarios as their one stop shop to get gear and charms and VP.


    Like I said putting a cap makes it so while you can't max out in 1 day you can STILL get 3 charms per week by scenarios and dungeons. Not only that if you do some dailies and are missing a few charms and need to get some VP as well you can use a dungeon/scenario to fill a small gap.

    your option is not a good one. put a limit on them but make it a fair limit it doesnt invalidate dailies and it doesnt make dungeons/scenarios the one stop shop for everything.

    *edit* There is some data released by blizzard but i cant remember the link for this source. It outlines that dailies were quite popular and as with anything they are rolling them out in mop like this to help gate content and provide content for players. If its a success we will see mroe of it. If it sucks balls and the majority of the community hates it rather than a vocal minority then it will be replaced/changed.

    look at cata, things got changed big time when people were showing them they messed up. Same will happen here if its unpopular it gets changed/removed

  3. #143
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    What I don't understand is the following complaint:

    "We want Lesser Charms to be rewarded from other sources than dailies".

    Do you ask for Conquest points to be rewarded from non-PVP activities?
    Do you ask for Valour points to be rewarded from non-PVE activities?
    Do you ask for mini-pet EXP to be rewarded from non-pet battle activities?
    Do you ask for Tradeskill points to be rewarded from non-trade-skill-inducing activities?

    By the same token, why on EARTH are people asking for Lesser Charms (or Greater Charms, for that matter) to be rewarded from non-Daily activities? [/url]
    Um, by simply noting that it has no bearing on daily activities, if you do dailies and dailies only, you have no use for them. It makes absolutely no sense for them to be linked to dailies. You must've realised that, surely.
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  4. #144
    I was under impression that current Elder Charms are going to be useless in 5.2 raiding tier? So players won't start hoarding them month before the patch actually comes out. And they'll probably introduce new currency with different way to obtain it.

    Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7321712516
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  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post

    Option a) Scenarios and dungeons have no limit on how many charms they give and they give you say 5 per dungeon. You would have to run a LOT of dungeons to get the charms, this could lead to burn out as shown by you and other players. Charms are optional but you feel they are mandatory. This leads to you maxing them out ASAP. Same for rep farming in cata and wrath. It was "mandatory" by a lot of people to get the rewards. Reality was it was not.
    For someone that tries to minmax like me, that doesn't change anything. The day my rogue hit 90 I ran about 25 heroic dungeons in order to hit the 470 LFRs asap. After then, however, I haven't really ran any.

    There is some data released by blizzard but i cant remember the link for this source. It outlines that dailies were quite popular and as with anything they are rolling them out in mop like this to help gate content and provide content for players. If its a success we will see mroe of it. If it sucks balls and the majority of the community hates it rather than a vocal minority then it will be replaced/changed.

    look at cata, things got changed big time when people were showing them they messed up. Same will happen here if its unpopular it gets changed/removed
    The difference between Cata problems and MoP problems is that the Cata content in question was "too hard" so nobody wanted to do it, while MoP content in question is really really easy but provides near mandatory rewards, so even people who hate it like me will still be doing it. On Blizzard's data, I probably look like someone who loves daily quests.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 03:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Faeglendir View Post
    I was under impression that current Elder Charms are going to be useless in 5.2 raiding tier? So players won't start hoarding them month before the patch actually comes out. And they'll probably introduce new currency with different way to obtain it.

    Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7321712516
    Considering they have added elder charms to 5.2 content, either that's wrong or its being misinterpreted.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    For someone that tries to minmax like me, that doesn't change anything. The day my rogue hit 90 I ran about 25 heroic dungeons in order to hit the 470 LFRs asap. After then, however, I haven't really ran any.



    The difference between Cata problems and MoP problems is that the Cata content in question was "too hard" so nobody wanted to do it, while MoP content in question is really really easy but provides near mandatory rewards, so even people who hate it like me will still be doing it. On Blizzard's data, I probably look like someone who loves daily quests.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 03:27 PM ----------



    Considering they have added elder charms to 5.2 content, either that's wrong or its being misinterpreted.
    Like you I ran heroics until my eyes bled. I now do heroics a few times a week at best as I have all the gear from them that I need and I only use heroics for bags from call to arms or for the odd VP to fill my VP cap limit.

    Having a limit on them prevents dailies from being made redundant. You can still cap your charms each week by doing heroics/scenarios in the example I gave, but at the same time makes it so dailies are a viable alternative (while slightly better than heroics when you unlock all the daily quest zones for example).

    they can then do some tweaking of the numbers of charms given on heroics/scenarios to ensure its viable and not over shadowed by dailies as well.

    Gating of content has to be done otherwise people will burn through it fast.

    They could remove the entire charm system and I would not bat an eyelid, it would also shut up a lot of the haters. win win

  7. #147
    Charms are basically one of Blizzard's ways of dragging people out into the world to do things.

    imho - they should have Charms drop off world bosses too. That way, there would be 2 actual different ways to get charms, and both ways get you out into the world.

    I can understand why Blizz would not want Charms dropping in dungeons or anything like that.

  8. #148
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drathos View Post
    So, as the title says, according to the front page, we'll get a RNG chance from a daily quest reward box to get extra Elder Charms.

    Personally, I've disliked the fact that I need to do dailies for Elder Charms ever since it was implemented, but at least I got to pick which ones I wanted to do to reach the 90 Lesser Charms per week. The 5.2 extra chance for Elder Charms seems to only come from 1 source: Sunreaver/Kirin Tor dailies. I think that is a terrible idea. Can anybody give a decent argument for why a RNG chance to get an item that gives you a RNG chance to get extra loot is a good idea?
    more charms only means more bags with 28 gold in them.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  9. #149
    elder coins arent exactly as bad as u think. a chance to get more is extremely favorable. think about this. if u could obtain 10/20 coins per week instead of say.. a pathetic 3.. thats way more chances for loot. now assuming u still do sha and perhaps galleon...3 coins means u only have 1 leftover.. for a laughable chance of loot from some boss people might not even kill. anyway.. the point is just because its tied to a quest doesnt mean that its gonna be bad. dailies are being chosen for pvp and pve related areas.. and the droprate is being raised in lfr so.. more loot for all.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Drathos View Post
    The main complaint about MoP so far has been that we have to do dailies to remain "competitive"
    if you play this game to remain competitive you dont play it for fun. you race change for a 2% dps buff, you change professions just to get that small boost from the bonus.

    doing a couple dailies a day is nothing compared to either of those things. if you truly are hardcore this shouldnt matter all this means is you now have MORE chances at extra loot.

    if you arent hardcore you dont need those coins. would they be a nice little bonus? sure. you can do dailies and pet battles and get your three a week still. or you can do the new dailies and get even more.

    this screams of "BUT I WAAAAAANT ALLLLLLLL THE REWAAAAAAAAARDS"

    this is content it provides rewards for those who do it if you want it that bad get off your ass and do the content if you dont then you arent hardcore and obviously dont need it
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  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Faeglendir View Post
    I was under impression that current Elder Charms are going to be useless in 5.2 raiding tier? So players won't start hoarding them month before the patch actually comes out. And they'll probably introduce new currency with different way to obtain them.
    You can't really hoard them...there's a limit of ten. If blizz wasn't cool with us hoarding ten then they'd lower the cap, but apparently they are.

    This whole thig seems like a bid to keep dailies relevant. Afaik the new dailies do not have a faction to rep up (the new faction is tied to the raid) so it isn't like we'll have to do them to get at the new valor gear. Plus if you're like me you have a huge stockpile of lesser charms just sitting in the bank, so you wouldn't have to do them for the charms either, at least for a few months. So to keep us grinding they added these RNG elder charms to the dailies. Kinda manipulative... But then again the whole game is like that.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    Your lack of self control and inability to push away from the table when you are full is the problem, not more options.
    GC has acknowledged this as a problem before - essentially, WF guilds, and even guilds that aren't WF-caliber, will kill themselves in order to gain every advantage during progression. This is part of the reason that they're loathe to create progression races that take months on end. It sounds a bit childish to say that Blizzard needs to protect players from themselves, but it is what it is. In doing something like this Blizzard is courting burnout from the top-end (dedication-wise) of their playerbase.

    Edit: I've seen multiple threads/posts about 'entitlement' and how raiders want something for nothing - that's not quite accurate. Raiders by far would prefer that we don't have to do dailies, via power-boosting rewards from dailies not existing. Being able to essentially get raid gear from dailies changes nothing - every other semi-serious raider is doing them, so you're trapped in an arms race. You have to do dailies just to stay equal. It'd be better if no one had to do dailies to raid better.
    Last edited by Rustjive; 2013-01-22 at 05:35 PM.
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  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    People miss the point of elders charms. They are a reward for putting the time and effort into dailies.

    No Effort then no reward its as easy as that. If you want the reward you put in the effort.
    No "CHANCE" of a reward.

    Just because we do them every day of the week doesn't mean we won't still finish with nothing.

    That's what people are complaining about...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhazrun View Post
    You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

    Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.
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  14. #154
    Great, I can put them with the others and they can all be friends.
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  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Drathos View Post
    No, I wasn't going to do those dailies every day until they added the chance for Elder Charms, because Blizzard has said that the VP gear in 5.2 WON'T be tied to the daily quest reputations. And no, I don't want everything to cater to me specifically, I want Blizzard to stop promising us that we get to make decisions about what we want to do, and then decide to tie items that are only useable in raids to dailies(as an example)
    If they want us to log in outside of raid times, they don't need to make it important to raiding, they need to make it FUN. They've added some fun stuff that doesn't give raiding related rewards in MoP, such as Challenge Modes, Pet Battles and the Brawler's Guild, but many people don't have time for those, because the time they spend online outside of raids is spent on dailies instead of the fun aspects of the game.
    If you dont find Raiding funny, then i recommend you stop doing it. Try some Pvp? If you dont find that funny either. Quit ure addiction, and play another game!
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  16. #156
    Another option to fix things up would be to have lesser charms tradable/sellable. Lets people with tons of them get rid of them, and people like me can buy them instead of doing dailies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderchain View Post
    If you dont find Raiding funny, then i recommend you stop doing it. Try some Pvp? If you dont find that funny either. Quit ure addiction, and play another game!
    I find raiding to be very fun. In fact, this is one of the best tiers in a long long time.
    Its daily quests we don't find fun.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderchain View Post
    If you dont find Raiding funny, then i recommend you stop doing it. Try some Pvp? If you dont find that funny either. Quit ure addiction, and play another game!
    I don't get your thought process. I say I don't like doing dailies -> I don't like raiding? That's as wrong as you can be, considering the only reason I still play the game is for the raids.

  18. #158
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    I think it kinda depends on drop rates if its next to 100% then yeah its not really rng everyone gets it and blizzard forced all raids into the new set of dailies. I think they went for elder charms rewards because look at 5.1 dailies hc raiders had almost nothing to gain except more less charms that you can get elsewere so they might have a lot of data that barely anyone does them and not many raids fully completed it I know i did not.

    I think its bad that there is no limit thou. If it was A. 4 charms per week get 90 lesser and do the new hub untill you get one or if you feel like it all 4. Or keep the 3 cap per week and make 30 lesser charms= 1 charm option

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Another option to fix things up would be to have lesser charms tradable/sellable. Lets people with tons of them get rid of them, and people like me can buy them instead of doing dailies.
    What you are failing to accept is that Blizzard WANTS people to do the dailies. They don't want people logging in for their raid, then logging off for the rest of the week. To that end, they made it so that those that play the way THEY want THEIR game to be played are rewarded. Yes, it is manipulation. Welcome to every MMO ever made. And damn near every video game for that matter. You do have a choice. You can choose to not participate in those activities and play the way you want. But doing so will deprive you of the rewards associated with that activity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    I find raiding to be very fun. In fact, this is one of the best tiers in a long long time.
    Its daily quests we don't find fun.
    Then don't do the dailies. If you are at such a level that the bonus roll (or the chance of a bonus roll, which is what is being complained about here) matters enough to reach the level of "required", then doing whatever it takes to gain an edge, regardless of how tedious you find that task, is part of the playstyle that you signed on for. Presumably because you find that playstyle entertaining. If you don't then why are you doing it? What you are saying would be like someone saying that they want to play in the Super Bowl but don't want to have to practice and/or work out at all. If the drive to be competitive is there, you will happily do whatever it takes to reach your goal. Expecting to play at a top level without having to do something you don't find enjoyable is naive.

    One change I think needs to happen is making any loot won from coin rolls in normal/heroic non-tradeable. Based on comments in this thread I am guessing that is not the case. That would severely cut down on how "required" these coins seem and return them to the purpose that I believe Blizzard intended, a personal bonus chance at loot. Not half the raid using a coin on every boss then trading the gear to whomever could use it. Allowing that was a huge oversight by Blizzard IMO and needs to be corrected ASAP.

    TLDR - Quit complaining and deal with it or change your playstyle and expectations. YOU adapt to the GAME. Not the other way around.
    Last edited by Gurbz; 2013-01-22 at 06:26 PM.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
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  20. #160
    while i defend that daily quests aren't mandatory and not really a big barrier for ppl atm...

    I totally agree that this is in the wrong way and only makes things worse. at least before ppl that they only had to do x quests for their coins... now is... do as many as you can for coins...

    I already feel that there is too much RNG in coins... got 1 item until now and i've been getting an spending all my coins every week...

    this just makes it worse... the reward doesn't make me feel more compelled to do dailies and just makes it all sound more revolting...
    Last edited by elderamy; 2013-01-22 at 06:31 PM.

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