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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    it doesn't think, but it has natural processes in place to maintain equilibrium (or homeostasis).
    we disrupt those, much like a disease disrupts the homeostasis of the body.
    Actually... No, it really doesn't have any natural process in place to maintain equilibrium. That's hogwash. The earth goes through all sorts of stages, and has gone through them for the entire duration of its existence, but it is by no means goal-oriented. And extremely far away from 'stable.'

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Psilo View Post
    I'd merely like to point out the conundrum of suggesting that the very thing which you have come out of - nature, the Earth - which has granted you the capability to think has now created within you the thought that the thing which allowed you to think is not capable of thinking itself. The robot telling the master what it is.

    Are you not an expression of the Earth?
    I don't think so. I believe us to be an "accident" after several who-know-how-many-bajillions year worth of evolving. We consider ourselves the greatest thing ever due to our "intelligence" (that is ironically also us that defines the sum of our intelligence and how great it is), but there are plenty of theories out there that state that we have been in a more perfect state in our previous incarnations - like having better memory, being far stronger, etc etc.

    Who knows though, perhaps the Earth really is sentient and is plotting it's own demise with everything that has happened. Maybe the Earth is "emo" as well and wants to /wrist =(

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Psilo View Post
    I agree with this, but I think we, as a society, need to have a careful look at what "helpful" development is.

    And, we're kind of in a pickle there because, while we realize that the planet cannot support the habits and living standard of the first world, we look like real assholes suggesting that the third world shouldn't have it so good because the future well-being of the planet and all its inhabitants are at stake.
    Well, there isn't just Earth, we have 7 other planets in our Solar system from where we might get resources and I am 100% sure if we will start lacking some basic resources our space program will start again to evolve.

  4. #204
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Actually... No, it really doesn't have any natural process in place to maintain equilibrium. That's hogwash. The earth goes through all sorts of stages, and has gone through them for the entire duration of its existence, but it is by no means goal-oriented. And extremely far away from 'stable.'
    it does. those changes came about because something managed to tip the balance too far.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    it does. those changes came about because something managed to tip the balance too far.
    No... Those changes came about because, in nature, there is no such thing as 'balance.'
    Balance is a human concept derived from what we like.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    it does. those changes came about because something managed to tip the balance too far.
    One of the basic laws of the universe, nothing is ever perfectly balanced.

    We are here by chance. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    Back in my day, we walked uphill both ways, in the snow, barefoot. That made being in school all the better. Now you kids use these fancy automobiles and get there almost instantly. What's the point of school when you can just drive there?

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    it does. those changes came about because something managed to tip the balance too far.
    So that's why the Ice Ages happened, right?

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    More rainforest in the area was destroyed by the Mayans than is chopped down today.
    Do you happen to have a source on that? Because I'm pretty sure that's bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    Back in my day, we walked uphill both ways, in the snow, barefoot. That made being in school all the better. Now you kids use these fancy automobiles and get there almost instantly. What's the point of school when you can just drive there?

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilo View Post
    Made me giggle. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    It's a good point, though, that civilization is not the root of the problem.
    Nobody ever said civilization was the root. Its inefficient practices and 3rd world countries that care more about tradition than moving forward with the rest of the world.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    Nobody ever said civilization was the root. Its inefficient practices and 3rd world countries that care more about tradition than moving forward with the rest of the world.
    The fact that we believe ourselves superior to nature contributes as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    Back in my day, we walked uphill both ways, in the snow, barefoot. That made being in school all the better. Now you kids use these fancy automobiles and get there almost instantly. What's the point of school when you can just drive there?

  11. #211
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    No... Those changes came about because, in nature, there is no such thing as 'balance.'
    Balance is a human concept derived from what we like.
    the earth has many proccesses that regulate temperature, atmosphere, and weather via positive or negative feedback.
    "nature" has ecosystems, which come about in the same way.

    they constantly change, but they are constantly striving for "balance".

    when something overwhelms the feedback mechanisms is when major shifts take place.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    the earth has many proccesses that regulate temperature, atmosphere, and weather via positive or negative feedback.
    "nature" has ecosystems, which come about in the same way.

    they constantly change, but they are constantly striving for "balance".

    when something overwhelms the feedback mechanisms is when major shifts take place.
    Since you are so insistent on this for some reason; give us one example of this in a real world scenario at any time in history.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    So that's why the Ice Ages happened, right?
    thats exactly why they happened.

  14. #214
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    I don't see how anyone could deny this, I mean, our species is classified as a mass extinction event.

  15. #215
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    if we keep hogging resources at the rythm we are now, instead of plague, parasites would be more accurate imo!
    we multiply uncontrolled, consume what resources are available and move on in search of a new source.
    though i admit we are far from the moving on part;

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilo View Post
    I think you both might be selling our potential short...


    Many of the "geniuses" of our time believe in the technological singularity. Terence McKenna, Ray Kurzweil, Michio Kaku, etc.

    Something I learned within the past year that has given me a rosier outlook than before was that the timescale of evolution on Earth is actually longer than the average lifespan of most stars. In other words, life on Earth is older than the lifespan of most stars. I don't mean to suggest that the Sun is unique, but it is stable and slow-burning. The development of human consciousness (for lack of better term) and all of our technology very well could be a special thing, indeed.
    Special =/= Rare.

    And the technological singularity makes a lot more sense than this balance that happens with no cause that you keep suggesting.

  17. #217
    If you think humans are a plague then it seems like the common sense thing to do would be stop the infection. Mass killings, human furnaces, etc. I mean it's only logical right?

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    We don't have an over population issue. As population grows we run out of resources, but that is a resource issue not a population one.
    When you outgrow your resources, it is in fact an overpopulation issue.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spraxle View Post
    If you think humans are a plague then it seems like the common sense thing to do would be stop the infection. Mass killings, human furnaces, etc. I mean it's only logical right?
    Maybe if you're a sociopath.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    it doesn't think, but it has natural processes in place to maintain equilibrium (or homeostasis).
    we disrupt those, much like a disease disrupts the homeostasis of the body.
    Universal homeostasis is the antithesis for life, life exists because it PREVENTS homeostasis, real homeostasis btw, not talking about the internal processes inside a living creature body, which simply abuse natural tendency for homeostasis to keep itself alive and facilitate chemical reactions, but even that is not enough and as such we have active transport mechanisms.

    I dont see humans as a plague lol, in fact we consume far less than most species of animals, even dogs consume more than we do body weight - eating wise on a daily basis.
    We simply conquered natural means to reduce population.

    We are a fairly low consumption species compared to many out there.
    And we just need to find a way to shed old systems that clearly dont work, we dont have too much population we have awful management

    Quote Originally Posted by Psilo View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis
    Food for thought. If I gave you real food for thought, I might end up in prison.
    Always liked the gaia hypothesis :P it has a certain romantic aspect to it. And what is the other food for thought? *curious*
    Last edited by Kurioxan; 2013-01-22 at 11:57 PM.

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