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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Let's be honest: Earth with humans is pointless, too, isn't it? We basically live to die, we don't make any kind of contribution the any kind of galactic "point". All the technologies we develop are completely and utterly irrelevant to the greater scheme of stuff. We do that just for ourselves.
    you have to start somewhere, and the most logical place to start is at a base - that's what happens now.
    if we can ever achieve having impact on universe, we will. you can argue it might be a negative impact, but going away with humans now is like complaining that baby can't open a jar, and all they can do is eat and poop.

  2. #342
    Yes we have an overpopulation issue; people saying it's the rescourses not us are pretty ignorant, it's even speculated that in 2020 here in belgium we will have to cut back on using drinking water and by 2050 the whole world will be so over populated we will be doomed. Thats only 7 years until it will become a big problem in the western world. Also humans developed nuclear weapons to kill other humans which also take a huge toll on the planet ; korea even announced they will test a new nuclear weapon on America. WE are the problem i mean our technology will be our doom : just look at cars or so ! Humans were not made to go that fast. And someday one of the only actual options will be cannibalism : too much humans and too little food. I just hope i won't live that day.
    'T Vlaamse heir staat immer pal, Daar 't winnen of daar 't sterven zal. Alhier, Aldaar aan lange lansen de leeuwen dansen, de leeuwen dansen.... En de leeuwen dansen, de leeuwen dansen.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldaveritas View Post
    I lost faith in humanity a long time ago. Personally, at this point I feel like bringing a child into this world is an act of cruelty and I have no intention of having children ever. You're welcome.
    Congratulations. The future belongs to those who show up. Perhaps in a few generations lunatics like yourself will disappear. I mean, a simple college course surely has the breadth to explore the myriad of factors that would contribute to such an outrageous claim. If the model's wrong, or doesn't take into account certain factors (vertical hydroponics, expanding to space, etc.) it will be simply "garbage in, garbage out" and should be taken with a grain of salt large enough to sink the Titanic.

    OT: Hysterical shrieking about overpopulation is nothing new (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon%E...3Ehrlich_wager in 1968) and has been proven wrong time and time again. Attenborough is just the latest in a long line of 'experts' who have come to completely misguided conclusions. He deserves the respect he's earned as a conservationist, but there's a line drawn at sandwich-board, end-of-the-world nuttery.

    Aside from that, to 'correct the human plague' would require at minimum some form of overarching world government with complete and utter control over the entire human population, even just to implement some sort of contraceptive measures. Look to the Kyoto Agreement to see just how effective simple promises are. There is no question, force would have to be used to bring those who disagree into line. Anyone who supports such thinking should be kept away from any positions of power; they've already stated that they're willing to murder anyone who disagrees to achieve their goal.

    This doesn't even get to the elitism that drives the eugenics movement (because what is being suggested in this thread is not just population control, but population control of the "wrong" people, the people who have "ruined the planet"). We've already seen people suggest killing off "modern savages" in some of the responses above. This kind of thinking is supremely dangerous; such disrespect for human life undercuts the most basic freedoms that people enjoy.

    It cannot be repeated enough: Those who support such measures (forced sterilization, forced contraception), fully realize that in order to implement such a program they will have to butcher a significant portion of the world's population. There is no peaceful alternative to bring about your vision for the world. This is the real reason why mass murder is connected to population control: People are not, generally, going to allow themselves to come under tyrannical rule without the threat of real force.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    The truth of the matter is, you have no proof for this and are just generating facts.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by SynergyDarkstar View Post
    I mean, a simple college course surely has the breadth to explore the myriad of factors that would contribute to such an outrageous claim. If the model's wrong, or doesn't take into account certain factors (vertical hydroponics, expanding to space, etc.) it will be simply "garbage in, garbage out" and should be taken with a grain of salt large enough to sink the Titanic.
    My statement wasn't a resultant of taking the class, I had come to that conclusion way before that. I'm aware that the population model can be called into question, but it was something leading researchers have been working on and adjusting since the 1970's. They are the experts on the topic, our professor was merely relaying the information. Regardless, I stand by my statement that rationing of water/food/energy is going to creep up on us a lot quicker than many people realize.

  5. #345
    For all the people that think humans are a plague and the earth will be better off without us...

    Lead by example already, and remember it's Down the road, not across the street.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by SynergyDarkstar View Post
    It cannot be repeated enough: Those who support such measures (forced sterilization, forced contraception), fully realize that in order to implement such a program they will have to butcher a significant portion of the world's population. There is no peaceful alternative to bring about your vision for the world. This is the real reason why mass murder is connected to population control: People are not, generally, going to allow themselves to come under tyrannical rule without the threat of real force.
    It doesn't have to come down to that if actions are started early. For example, early education about childcare responsibility, importance of family planning, usages of contraceptives etc. Also, government could also put in financial restriction to promote responsible family planning. For example, maybe government can give out food stamp based on number of adults only and no longer increase based on number of children, have government subsidized condoms, government subsidized abortion (maybe 1 time only to prevent abuse) and what not. Of course government would need careful planning so people are aware of this and maybe only apply these rule to people born after 2003 (10 year olds who cannot have possibly have gotten children yet).

    These are long term plans to educate people and this is fairly harmless. These kind of measures can only be taken while overpopulation is still not yet a problem. Further technological improvements are definitely good but I don't think standing idly by while hoping everything will turn out just fine is a nice approach to a potentially extremely bad situation.
    their moving their table over their
    they're moving they're table over they're
    there moving there table over there

  7. #347
    Bloodsail Admiral KunkkaTheAdmiral's Avatar
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    We need the emperor, he takes care of that.

    More serious though... we are not overpopulated on earth, we will someday.

    And no we won't erase ourself and kill humans. The chance for that is incredible small and will fade as soon as we reach the point of non existing diversity in mankind.
    Different culture will die out, so does everything else that can differ between humans.

    If we reach that point, we won't die out, maybe forever. But we certainly won't be the cause of that.
    "Why do we fight? To protect home and family, to preserve balance and bring harmony. For my kind the true question is, what is worth fighting for?"

  8. #348
    Q: whats the difference between the extreme right and extreme left?

    A: the extreme right wants to kill some groups of people and are evil for it. The extreme left wants to kill off large classes of people (oh excuse me we need to compare the process to culling animals per Attenborough) and bring down the human population for the sake of the environment, and this is a nuanced position we need to take seriously.

    One side gives us the jewish question. The other gives us human question.

  9. #349
    I am Murloc! Garnier Fructis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Q: whats the difference between the extreme right and extreme left?
    There is no difference, extremists are retarded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dejablue View Post
    Is physics forever relegated to reiterating integrals that can never approach the derivative limits of true reality?
    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    You are a certified crackpot that is subservient to the manipulators of science who are dreaming to control knowledge.

  10. #350
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    He's urbane and well spoken though - that must mean he should be treated as a very serious person!
    Indeed, and this a dangerous attitude among social sciences. I can't even begin to say how many literary journals I read by political-science types that just absolutely reek of wealthy, white privilege. I don't claim that being white means you automatically are privileged to a significant amount worth accounting for, but when you are and you even act like it, and act like it's justifyable and OK is just disgusting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Indeed, and this a dangerous attitude among social sciences. I can't even begin to say how many literary journals I read by political-science types that just absolutely reek of wealthy, white privilege. I don't claim that being white means you automatically are privileged to a significant amount worth accounting for, but when you are and you even act like it, and act like it's justifyable and OK is just disgusting.
    That being said, can't we just accept that David Attenborough has the world's best voice for nature documentaries? And he has passion for his work.
    Sure; some of his ideas might be a bit strange (such as the notion that humans were aquatic mammals once), but the very fact that people have some weird opinions doesn't make them complete whacks.

    For instance: Stephen Hawking. I bet most of us can agree that he's a genius. He's also completely off-his-rockers delusional. Still a genius.
    That Kaku guy who loves doing those 'rabbit hole' documentaries? Completely nuts. His beliefs make no sense, and are certainly not backed up by the sciences he claims back up his beliefs. Still a genius in his own right.
    Tsoukalos; let's not forget about him. "I'm not saying it's aliens, but..." You know; the guy's pretty smart. Sure; he isn't that good at separating observation from personal bias, but if we're going to judge a person's complete worth on that alone, we'd have to concede that anyone who holds any supernatural belief (not religion itself, but the belief that God is literally a guy who decides everything) is completely worthless in every respect just because they base a large portion of how they see the world on belief rather than demonstrable fact (note that I'm not suggesting that belief is wrong, per say. Merely that it isn't demonstrable fact).

    We really can't do that. All sorts of people have all sorts of ideals, ideas, beliefs and convictions. Having one contrary or controversial view does not make an entire personality invalid.

  12. #352
    Warchief Sand Person's Avatar
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    David Attenborough has contributed to this "plague" by having kids of his own. Why doesn't he just off himself? Help the environment! Mass suicide!!!! lol

    On a serious note, nature will fix this on its own. We humans are but a blip in Earth's history. New species will emerge and inherit the earth after we are long gone. It's called evolution.

  13. #353
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Why do you assume that just because something is a plague it needs to be fixed? And how is the assessment that humanity is a plague (just like locusts, army ants and other species) even close to 'complaining?'
    Humanity is a plague. That's just how it is.
    A plague is something that needs to be fixed. A plague consumes until its fuel is destroyed. When you have a plague, you do everything in your power to squash it. A plague means something is not only wrong, but bad.

    I would ask if you consider yourself to be a plague as well. I have a hard time imagining somebody say "yes, I am a parasite, sapping the world of its resources" without trying to fix that. It would imply that you are just fine being a plague.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    A plague is something that needs to be fixed. A plague consumes until its fuel is destroyed. When you have a plague, you do everything in your power to squash it. A plague means something is not only wrong, but bad.

    I would ask if you consider yourself to be a plague as well. I have a hard time imagining somebody say "yes, I am a parasite, sapping the world of its resources" without trying to fix that. It would imply that you are just fine being a plague.
    No... When we're BOTHERED by a plague, we do everything we can to squash it. Locusts, pestilence, army ants etcetera.
    When was the last time you saw a swarm of locusts destroy itself out of emo-ness?

    There's nothing morally or inherently wrong with being a plague.

    So here it is:
    "Yes, I am a member of a plague species (though not a parasite; it is something completely different, thank you very much (though I wouldn't care much if I were; the terminology is simply incorrect)), and I'm pretty much fine with that. There's loads of things we can do to make our behaviour sustainable, and I applaud most of those things because it allows us to plague on lots more, and have a nice and rich environment to boot. Of course we're sapping the world of resources (as does any other species of life, but we're giving so much back! We just have to make sure we don't kill ourselves off with the things we're giving back." :P

  15. #355
    Didnt Agent Smith say the same thing to Neo?

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    In the sense that we ruin worlds, or at least change them excessively to a way that only helps us. Not that its the wrong thing to do, but denying our impact on the world is silly.
    Edit: Well only our world
    Well up to this point we are only accounted for the destruction of ONE world.
    Tho i guess it is just one cause we are not evolved yet to easily move to another planet we can destroy.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by beefchorizo View Post
    David Attenborough has contributed to this "plague" by having kids of his own.
    Generally when people say something, or make rules, it doesn't mean they feel obligated to follow same advice/law.
    "Do as I say, not as I do!"

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by ripponesan View Post
    Well up to this point we are only accounted for the destruction of ONE world.
    Tho i guess it is just one cause we are not evolved yet to easily move to another planet we can destroy.
    We dont destroy, we consume.

  19. #359
    Scarab Lord Howard Moon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budong View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    For all the people that think humans are a plague and the earth will be better off without us...

    Lead by example already, and remember it's Down the road, not across the street.
    Late to the party, see page 1.
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  20. #360
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    No... When we're BOTHERED by a plague, we do everything we can to squash it. Locusts, pestilence, army ants etcetera.
    When was the last time you saw a swarm of locusts destroy itself out of emo-ness?

    There's nothing morally or inherently wrong with being a plague.

    So here it is:
    "Yes, I am a member of a plague species (though not a parasite; it is something completely different, thank you very much (though I wouldn't care much if I were; the terminology is simply incorrect)), and I'm pretty much fine with that. There's loads of things we can do to make our behaviour sustainable, and I applaud most of those things because it allows us to plague on lots more, and have a nice and rich environment to boot. Of course we're sapping the world of resources (as does any other species of life, but we're giving so much back! We just have to make sure we don't kill ourselves off with the things we're giving back." :P
    I find this to be a much more reasonable position. I still reserve my statement for those saying that humanity should be wiped out.

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