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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    Oh dear, there is PvP on PvP realms, or we wouldn't have people crying here about how they got ganked, would we? No it's really as simple as that, I don't understand how people try to make out the only people that gank are things like "bored noobs" or idiots, or no skilled nubs etc etc, It's clear you're just mad at the fact you get ganked, It in no way whatsoever means the person is without skill, it means they are just killing lowbies, that's it
    No skill required. No challenege posed. Running away when someone remotely close their level shows up.

    Sound familiar? There is no skill is killing a lowbie. There is no challenge, no danger. The attacker might as well be on a PvE realm for all the PvPing that occurs.

    My opinion on "ganking" is i love it, I think it's awesome either way, when i recently leveled my shaman upto 90 i had a rather bothersome mage keep camping me, but i would just ress and hex, and flee, it's like a game of cat and mouse,
    Where one party can't run...can't hide...can't fight.

    EJL

  2. #202
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    No skill required. No challenege posed. Running away when someone remotely close their level shows up.

    Sound familiar? There is no skill is killing a lowbie. There is no challenge, no danger. The attacker might as well be on a PvE realm for all the PvPing that occurs.
    Requiring skill or posing a challenge is NOT a requirement for activity to be classed as "PvP". You're continuing to make stuff up. Red is not green, no matter how loudly you insist that it is.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Since you stated something that was in direct contradiction to the policy, I do not believe you. You know what you WISH it said, but not what it ACTUALLY says.
    Your perogative. Comparing how things are now with how they began is, however, slightly misleading. There is a lot of player behavior that still catches Blizzard by surprise.

    That's PvP. The whole thread here is complaining about CRZ adding too much PvP.
    You can't have too much PvP.


    The word has a meaning. It is NOT what you're claiming it is.
    The word has a meaning. Sure. "Against".

    "Player vs Player" has a different meaning. It means two players fighting each other and the usual expectation, in my experience, is that both players tend to envisage a relatively fair contest where both have a chance at victory.

    EJL

  4. #204
    Herald of the Titans Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    There cannot have been much of a level difference between your shamen and the mage or you would not have been able to hex him as the spell would have missed every time. But overall I think you proved the point that people that gank others are not the most skilled if he was unable to master one of the most basic PVP skills and interrupt your spell casting.
    Lmfao spells can hit from a very very very HUGE level difference actually, i was on my 85 horde and saw an Ally guildie mage who was 51, and he managed to frost nova me twice, And it doesn't prove any points that i managed to Hex him, you ress behind them and wham, they have a split second to turn around and interrupt, it just shows you really are mad if you try and use silly things like that to prove your "point"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  5. #205
    my fave is that rare rocket launcher that you get it can dismount anyone pretty much a one shot for any low lvls too I got raped reaptedly by a allie paladon the other day on my dk in nagrand I'll admit it is fun to try and lvl a new toon with out being ganked but thems the joys of lvling on a pvp server

  6. #206
    Herald of the Titans Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    "Player vs Player" has a different meaning. It means two players fighting each other and the usual expectation, in my experience, is that both players tend to envisage a relatively fair contest where both have a chance at victory.
    EJL
    No, the meaning of "Player Vs Player" is one player fighting another, nothing to do with a fair fight at all, Sure it's more fun when it's a fair fight, but that doesn't change what the literal meaning of PvP is

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 09:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Midgjitsu View Post
    my fave is that rare rocket launcher that you get it can dismount anyone pretty much a one shot for any low lvls too I got raped reaptedly by a allie paladon the other day on my dk in nagrand I'll admit it is fun to try and lvl a new toon with out being ganked but thems the joys of lvling on a pvp server
    Rocket launcher? I know of the Hardened Shell, never seen a rocket launcher
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  7. #207
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    "Player vs Player" has a different meaning. It means two players fighting each other and the usual expectation, in my experience, is that both players tend to envisage a relatively fair contest where both have a chance at victory.
    The bit I put in italics is not true. It isn't the "usual expectation". It's something you're making up and trying to shoehorn in. It is not true now, nor has it ever been true. It's necessary for competitive PvP, but random open world PvP is not and has never been intended to be "competitive" in WoW.

  8. #208
    Stood in the Fire Hildefuns's Avatar
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    Endus, I commend your great patience regarding this "issue", regardless of the silly defenitions people have about the word in question lol

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Ha. Legit.
    Seeing people whinge and cry had no idea the amount of pain that went into level in STV in Vanilla/TBC.
    In vanilla (not as much in tBC even), the realm communities were closer. There would, more often than not, be a higher level ally around to help side when ganking occurred. And more often than not gank fests weren't really ganking at all because they would escalate into balls out 5v5 or even raids at times even on low pop realms.

    With the advent of flying mounts that part of pvp has been all but forgotten in the old continents which is why the implementation of CRZ was just an all around terrible call. Like I've said a million times, you don't attempt to go back to an older form of the game in one regard without addressing the thing that caused it to change in the first place. Setting precedents and then going back on them only hurts the game, the community and the company.
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    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  10. #210
    I never got to play on a pvp server long enough in vanilla to embrace the pvp. My RL friends played on a PvE I went there shortly after rolling. I have a question, if you are close in character lvl do you get exp for killing another player in the open world?

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The bit I put in italics is not true. It isn't the "usual expectation". It's something you're making up and trying to shoehorn in.
    Actually - it is. Even many other MMOs try to put some degree of structure and fairness into world PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    No, the meaning of "Player Vs Player" is one player fighting another, nothing to do with a fair fight at all, Sure it's more fun when it's a fair fight, but that doesn't change what the literal meaning of PvP is p
    A level 90 does not fight a Level 1

    EJL

  12. #212
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Man..... the new age of "Entitled" gamers is really showing its face in this thread today. I still cant believe people are arguing semantics over here.....

  13. #213
    Herald of the Titans Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Actually - it is. Even many other MMOs try to put some degree of structure and fairness into world PvP.



    A level 90 does not fight a Level 1

    EJL
    Lol what the hell has a lvl 90 fighting a lvl 1 got to do with anything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  14. #214
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Actually - it is. Even many other MMOs try to put some degree of structure and fairness into world PvP.
    Repeating a falsehood over and over doesn't make it true.

    "Player versus player" means one player attacking another. It does not require the ability to defend yourself. It does not require fairness. What other games might choose to do in their game is irrelevant to the definition of the concept. And if you really wanted to bring up game-specific definitions, then as I've cited, WoW is explicitly clear that PvP servers allow for unfair, unequal PvP activity.

    There's no necessity of fairness in the term, generally speaking.
    WoW specifically states that PvP realms are "unfair", while PvE realms are "fair".
    If you're on a PvP realm and compaining about how unfair it is, then the issue is that you made an uninformed choice, not that the server rules are "wrong".

  15. #215
    Herald of the Titans Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    No skill required. No challenege posed. Running away when someone remotely close their level shows up.

    Sound familiar? There is no skill is killing a lowbie. There is no challenge, no danger. The attacker might as well be on a PvE realm for all the PvPing that occurs.



    Where one party can't run...can't hide...can't fight.

    EJL
    Nope, doesn't sound familiar at all, I've hardly ever seen gankers run away when another person their lvl shows up, I've helped countless people against gankers, and i have maybe seen like 1 out of 20 of those run away, and not attack me also, Just because one person runs away, or shows no skill, doesn't mean they all do,That's stereotyping, and stereotyping=Bad, and pointless, i know many, many high rated PvPers that go around ganking, there is like 3guilds of them on my server
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Actually - it is. Even many other MMOs try to put some degree of structure and fairness into world PvP.
    I know no MMOs that follow rules like that, and would love an example. If you are on a PvP server and are outside of a safe area like a city, you are fair game by every single player who runs into you. I'm not sure if this is your first MMO, but having played games that had completely open world PvP (like Ultima Online) and hated it, I've always known in every game to avoid them like the plague.

    This mentality of "fair" factoring at all into the definition of versus makes me want to cry, and it's pretty much the mentality of most of the people who want to jump ship. I can understand that pre-CRZ that this is how it was and so you were a given a false impression of what a PvP server entailed, but as Blizzard said, this was never the intent of how they were supposed to be. If they were, they would have had limits from the start or added them in, but they have not for the last 8 years. It's only becoming an issue now because CRZ has increased the populations to make it more prevalent. I'm also not sure if you jumped into WoW late, but one of my coworkers used to tell me stories all the time before transferring out about how he could get ganked and switch to his main to hunt and camp people for hours for revenge. High levels ganking lowbies is nothing new, it's just more frequent.

    There is a danger in every game with open PvP that you will be attacked at any time and place by someone else - it does not matter how much higher or lower your level or gear is, it does not matter how inconvenient it is, whether you're in the mood or not, it can and will happen if you are not in a safe area. All fights that occur outside of a safe zone have no rules, and likely no honor. You can be as honorable as you want to others, but you can't ever control the actions of other players, and should never expect them to be the same as you. PvP does not follow your rules and expectations, and never has - it follows the one golden rule that you can attack anyone at any time for any reason, making it one giant free-for-all.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    Lmfao spells can hit from a very very very HUGE level difference actually, i was on my 85 horde and saw an Ally guildie mage who was 51, and he managed to frost nova me twice, And it doesn't prove any points that i managed to Hex him, you ress behind them and wham, they have a split second to turn around and interrupt, it just shows you really are mad if you try and use silly things like that to prove your "point"
    Why do you think I am mad? I do believe that AOE spells have a different hit mechanic to direct casts a level 51 would have almost zero chance hitting a level 85 with a directly cast spell. Based on you had to ress behind him in order to hex him suggests that your game of cat and mouse was not quite as successful as you originally implied. I am glad you enjoyed the experience but many others would not.

  18. #218
    Herald of the Titans Gobra's Avatar
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    The other issue here is people throwing around the word "fair" because currently there are 90s who have 0 chance against other 90s, there is a hunter in particular on my realm, who spends his time ganking anyone, and he loves sitting near Wrathion, waiting for all the fresh 90s, while he himself is in full Malevolent gear, several items upgraded, and against him, those fresh 90s have zero chance, So would you have a problem with that like you do against a lvl 51? At least a lvl 51 has his misery ended quickly lol

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 09:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Why do you think I am mad? I do believe that AOE spells have a different hit mechanic to direct casts a level 51 would have almost zero chance hitting a level 85 with a directly cast spell. Based on you had to ress behind him in order to hex him suggests that your game of cat and mouse was not quite as successful as you originally implied. I am glad you enjoyed the experience but many others would not.
    How was it not succesfull? i ress, hex, run away, i can't fly so he follows, and kills me, i then ress again, run away, try and CC, etc etc, that's a game of cat and mouse, and i was squeaking, alot lol, i was only 87 so it wasn't too much of an issue, but on a side note the mage also frostbolt me several times, because once another guildie showed up to slaughter me he often slowed me lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  19. #219
    I am Murloc! Granyala's Avatar
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    Lmfao spells can hit from a very very very HUGE level difference actually, i was on my 85 horde and saw an Ally guildie mage who was 51, and he managed to frost nova me twice, And it doesn't prove any points that i managed to Hex him, you ress behind them and wham, they have a split second to turn around and interrupt, it just shows you really are mad if you try and use silly things like that to prove your "point"
    Fine he hits you. Wooo. Bet he really made a dent in your 150K HP pool too. lol.

    With the HP scaling World PvP even between 85 and 90 has become completely retarded. I can disassemble a lv 85 PvP geared guy in my 90raid gear, before he can even say "moo".

    Personally I can't wrap my head around why people even defend this broken state of the game.

    But, luckily I don't have to: PvE Servers FTW!

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  20. #220
    Herald of the Titans Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Fine he hits you. Wooo. Bet he really made a dent in your 150K HP pool too. lol.

    With the HP scaling World PvP even between 85 and 90 has become completely retarded. I can disassemble a lv 85 PvP geared guy in my 90raid gear, before he can even say "moo".

    Personally I can't wrap my head around why people even defend this broken state of the game.

    But, luckily I don't have to: PvE Servers FTW!
    I don't think you realised what i was talking about, someone said that spells from a low level can't hit a high lvl, so i just mentioned how it can, and just said about that event, It has nothing to do with him hurting me
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

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