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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    How was it not succesfull? i ress, hex, run away, i can't fly so he follows, and kills me, i then ress again, run away, try and CC, etc etc, that's a game of cat and mouse, and i was squeaking, alot lol, i was only 87 so it wasn't too much of an issue, but on a side note the mage also frostbolt me several times, because once another guildie showed up to slaughter me he often slowed me lol
    From the sounds of things he killed you at leisure, repeatedly. Personally I would not call being killed repeatedly successful but I guess our definitions differ. As I said it sounds like you enjoyed the experience and fair play to you, but can you not see how others would not like to be the plaything of a bored max level character and the only chance they have of escape is hoping he gets bored or they log-off?

  2. #222
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    I don't think you realised what i was talking about, someone said that spells from a low level can't hit a high lvl, so i just mentioned how it can, and just said about that event, It has nothing to do with him hurting me
    In PvE spells can reliably hit up to 4 levels above you.
    5+ gets very annoying and if you see a ?? Mob you can basically just forget casting stuff.
    Melee is a bit different, they get glancing blows but generally they get to bring their stuff to the target.

    Code:
    If the difference between the mob's level and your level is greater than 2, then the formula for calculating your base miss rate against that mob is: 
     with single-wielding: 2% + (Mob Level - Your Level) * 2%
    Source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Hit

    So that 51 had: 2% + (85-51)*2% = 2% + 34*2% = 70% miss chance.

    While it has been quite a while since I PvPd against high level players, I'm pretty confident in saying that the same formula applies there.

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  3. #223
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    From the sounds of things he killed you at leisure, repeatedly. Personally I would not call being killed repeatedly successful but I guess our definitions differ. As I said it sounds like you enjoyed the experience and fair play to you, but can you not see how others would not like to be the plaything of a bored max level character and the only chance they have of escape is hoping he gets bored or they log-off?
    I mean it was a succesful game of cat and mouse, sometimes i got away, sometimes i didn't^^ I can definitely see why others would hate it, Being the GM of a few guilds now across several servers, mainly for levellers i've seen people get really upset by it, some days i can only log on for an hour, and I'm sure if someone was ganking someone for the whole time they could be online, that would be immensely frustraing=/
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  4. #224
    Warchief coldbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    What you're describing is a PvE server. Where "honorable" behaviour is enforced.

    PvP servers exist solely to allow for dishonorable no-holds-barred PvP.

    People keep saying "I just want a server where I can PvP but 90s can't just gank me all day long". That's a PvE server. Nobody's making fun of you for preferring a PvE server. We're just asking that you play on them, rather than trying to turn PvP servers into PvE servers.
    Endus, you're encountering a cognitive disconnect here. People say they want "honourable PVP" when they really mean "PVP when it suits me, and when I win, or feel that I had a good chance to win, because that makes me feel good."

    People, myself included, frequently say they want one thing, and what they need is something slightly different. It takes a fair bit of brutal honesty and introspection to figure out what would actually do yourself good, as opposed to what you just think you want. The only way to break through this barrier of a lack of introspection and self-understanding is to make things completely blatantly obvious, such as a massive warning when you click on "PVP server" that says "I hereby consent to unfair PVP and persecution, click Yes to get murdered in-game" - which would be a bad business decision.

    Either that or you can invent a machine to punch people through the internet.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by coldbear View Post
    Either that or you can invent a machine to punch people through the internet.
    That would be a feat worthy of a Nobel prize and a statue the size of the Statue of Liberty.

  6. #226
    I love it. I rarely agree with them on PvP related topics, but they have the right idea with ganking and world PvP. Red is dead, as it should be.

  7. #227
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    Either that or you can invent a machine to punch people through the internet.
    Can I preorder? :<

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  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Forumchibi View Post
    I know no MMOs that follow rules like that, and would love an example.
    Just off the top of my head i can name Warhammer. If you went into a lowbie zone to attack people you were rather aptly transformed into a chicken that could be easily killed.

    I just love how everyone complains the community of wow is an utter toilet yet this thread is full of people defending guys camping level 12 guys at level 90. Sure if some idiot kills swoops down and kills a guy in one shot it can be called PvP but we all know these arse holes only do it for the sake of being arse holes. People like Endus will echo endlessly 'Its a PvP realm!'Its a PvP realm!'Its a PvP realm!'Its a PvP realm!'Its a PvP realm! to defend any sort of negative game play.

    They should just remove all pretense and remove all safe zones and allow you to loot the gear of the dead. As the guy i quoted mentioned UO they should make it like that. WOW pvp is the most care bear pvp in any mmo. I know some people how play on pvp realms seem to think they are tough guys and have the audacity to call other people care bears. All you can lose in wow pvp is time. That's it. It has no other consequence. This is why i find people who camp lowbies to be beneath contempt. In consequence free pvp when all they have to lose is time they don't even have the bottle to risk that.
    I'm a Forsaken. I kill firstborns while their mamas watch. I turn cities into salt. I even, when I feel like it, rip the souls from little girls, and from now till kingdom come, the only thing you can count on in your existence is never understanding why.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Are you serious? Wow, such cluelessness astounds me.

    NO WHERE did it say when you rolled on your PvP server did it say that there would be a fair fight every time you encountered a player of the enemy faction. Please, if you see that somewhere when you CHOOSE / KNOWINGLY Roll a PvP server, please tell me, i would really like you to point that out.

    Your QQ fest is nill and void, because you continue to choose to play on a PvP server when you know the consequences of doing so.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 06:37 PM ----------



    I've leveled about 6 characters to 80 now with RaF, and ive been ganked only a handfull of times across all those characters. Your argument is invalid.
    You sound like quite the child. I'm a bit surprised that your response wasn't "blah blah blah I can't hear you". Although it kind of was since nothing you said contradicts what I said.

  10. #230
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    WOW pvp is the most care bear pvp in any mmo. I know some people how play on pvp realms seem to think they are tough guys and have the audacity to call other people care bears. All you can lose in wow pvp is time. That's it. It has no other consequence. This is why i find people who camp lowbies to be beneath contempt. In consequence free pvp when all they have to lose is time they don't even have the bottle to risk that.
    It's not about WHAT they lose.. it's about THAT they lose.
    Gankers can't stand losing, that's why these idiots choose their targets very carefully and only attack if they know with certainty that they win.

    I've seen it countless times during my PvP-Server years.
    Me at 100% HP -> Hordie grins and waves.
    Me at 20% HP with a mob -> Same Hordie kills me and tries to corpsecamp (since you only got 50% HP upon rez)

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  11. #231
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    People like Endus will echo endlessly 'Its a PvP realm!'Its a PvP realm!'Its a PvP realm!'Its a PvP realm!'Its a PvP realm! to defend any sort of negative game play.
    Because it's not negative gameplay.

    It's not gameplay you enjoy. That's why there are two server types. One with unfair dastardly ganking, where most 90s you meet while leveling are total dastards. And one where you're protected from those kinds of shenanigans.

    If you chose the former, and hate it, the response should be to change your mind and play on the latter, the PvE realms. Not to demand that the PvP realms be changed beyond recognition, solely because you chose the wrong server type.


    I and others keep echoing that refrain endlessly because it's true. There are two server types. The ONLY difference is that PvP servers encourage and allow dishonorable, unfair world PvP gameplay. If you don't like that? Then you should be on a PvE server.

  12. #232
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    While I agree with Endus' assessment, I wonder if there will be a community for the gankers to gank.
    Already you see posts popping up asking for a mass X-fer feature, because people are sick of it.

    It stands to reason, if ganking really is a behavior that should be condoned or/and supported by Blizzard.

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  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Gobra View Post
    I mean it was a succesful game of cat and mouse, sometimes i got away, sometimes i didn't^^ I can definitely see why others would hate it, Being the GM of a few guilds now across several servers, mainly for levellers i've seen people get really upset by it, some days i can only log on for an hour, and I'm sure if someone was ganking someone for the whole time they could be online, that would be immensely frustraing=/
    I wanted to thank you for your response, this is a polarising subject and it easy to lose sight of things that regardless of what side of the fence you sit on most of us want WOW to succeed. Going back to your situation, I agree that it can be incredibly satisfying to outwit a superior enemy, but even though you used some clever tactics against your opponent even with only a three level gap there was really nothing you could do stop him killing you.

    Clearly you know the game and still, although you had some fun this time, you were powerless. The problem, as I see it, is that there are people like this mage that are doing exactly the same to even lower level players, players that might not have your knowledge of the game. We all know that sub numbers have been dropping and I don't think that allowing max level players to slaughter low levels until they are bored is going to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Because it's not negative gameplay.

    It's not gameplay you enjoy. That's why there are two server types. One with unfair dastardly ganking, where most 90s you meet while leveling are total dastards. And one where you're protected from those kinds of shenanigans.

    If you chose the former, and hate it, the response should be to change your mind and play on the latter, the PvE realms. Not to demand that the PvP realms be changed beyond recognition, solely because you chose the wrong server type.


    I and others keep echoing that refrain endlessly because it's true. There are two server types. The ONLY difference is that PvP servers encourage and allow dishonorable, unfair world PvP gameplay. If you don't like that? Then you should be on a PvE server.
    So you think that max level players killing new players without any form of come back is not negative gameplay?

    Perhaps when they quit Blizzard could email them the PVP realm rules you linked earlier, I'm sure they will see the error of their ways, immediately resubscribe and pay for a transfer onto a more suitable realm.

  14. #234
    The Lightbringer Uennie's Avatar
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    Yesterday I got ganked and then 20 seconds after I logged over and camped them for an hour and a half.

    I like PvP servers, even if I don't get to kill them back all the time. We're at war here people. It's not even a big deal if I get camped - which happens because for God's sake I've been playing on the same server since Vanilla. I got camped in STV, in Desolace, both Plaguelands, Hillsbrad especially. Every PvP zone I have been ganked and camped in, on my main and many alts. It's a PvP server I don't see the big deal aside from people's imaginary notions of nobility and righteousness in an online game. Killing you isn't personal, and has no indicator on what kind of a person that guy is. A lot of gankers and PvPers I know are very nice are wouldn't dream of taking advantage of someone or scamming them. They're just playing the game.

    Let me reiterate that. They're playing the game. This is the game, it is war. The game is war, it's in the name. World of Warcraft. It's not personal, it's just one set of pixels killing another set of pixels. It's not like he's fleecing you of your life savings.
    Last edited by Uennie; 2013-01-23 at 12:07 AM.

  15. #235
    Mechagnome Gaelden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    this thread is full of people defending guys camping level 12 guys at level 90
    Incorrect, there is a difference between defending the right to do it on a PVP server, and defending the guys who do it.

    I don't gank random people often, lowbies even rarely (and I only do so in silly ways, like popping from the sky naked and punching them to death), but on a PVP server I see no problem in killing lowbies. It's not supposed to be fair, I don't think people SHOULD gank lowbies, but people playing on a PVP server should expect that to happen, if they don't, well there's the PVE servers for a reason.
    It ain’t wise to poke a warrior so much, sonny. We just might poke ya back.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Just off the top of my head i can name Warhammer. If you went into a lowbie zone to attack people you were rather aptly transformed into a chicken that could be easily killed.
    Ah, the chicken thing, I'd forgotten about that. Too bad that game died so quickly, if only they hadn't added all those servers and stretched the population too thin (this is why you never want a new MMO to add a bunch of servers at launch, you get screwed after the initial crowd gets bored or goes back to WoW!). I really had high hopes for that one, I miss DAoC as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    While I agree with Endus' assessment, I wonder if there will be a community for the gankers to gank.
    Already you see posts popping up asking for a mass X-fer feature, because people are sick of it.

    It stands to reason, if ganking really is a behavior that should be condoned or/and supported by Blizzard.
    A level 90 killing a level 1 is probably overkill, but changing the system to anything else just begs the question of where you draw the line. Like I asked before, is 1 level difference too much? 5, 10, 15...? Or if someone of equal level kills you repeatedly for hours because they have arena gear, do you then have to add in item level restrictions as well?

    People are going on about the extreme high levels versus low levels, but what if all the levels and gear are the same, but the other player is playing a "better" class, or is just plain more skilled at PvP? Does everyone think it's okay then to get camped by the same person for several hours until they decide to log, or are we going to start imposing a limit to the number of times you can be attacked by the same person next?

  17. #237
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    So you think that max level players killing new players without any form of come back is not negative gameplay?
    Well, there ARE ways to strike back. Get your main, call for backup from your guild, in world defense, etc. But in general, no, ganking is not "negative" gameplay, any more than any other kind of PvP is. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but that's why there's two server types.

    Perhaps when they quit Blizzard could email them the PVP realm rules you linked earlier, I'm sure they will see the error of their ways, immediately resubscribe and pay for a transfer onto a more suitable realm.
    People have been threatening to quit over pretty much every single change Blizzard has ever implemented. It's a threat I don't even notice any more, especially when even this thread (and the prior one) is close to 50/50 on the subject, and forumgoers tend to be biased towards those given to making complaints.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by coldbear View Post
    Endus, you're encountering a cognitive disconnect here. People say they want "honourable PVP" when they really mean "PVP when it suits me, and when I win, or feel that I had a good chance to win, because that makes me feel good."

    People, myself included, frequently say they want one thing, and what they need is something slightly different. It takes a fair bit of brutal honesty and introspection to figure out what would actually do yourself good, as opposed to what you just think you want. The only way to break through this barrier of a lack of introspection and self-understanding is to make things completely blatantly obvious, such as a massive warning when you click on "PVP server" that says "I hereby consent to unfair PVP and persecution, click Yes to get murdered in-game" - which would be a bad business decision.

    Either that or you can invent a machine to punch people through the internet.
    The bolded part made me lol.

    That is essentially what they are signing up for, the truth hurts.

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  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    While I agree with Endus' assessment, I wonder if there will be a community for the gankers to gank.
    Already you see posts popping up asking for a mass X-fer feature, because people are sick of it.

    It stands to reason, if ganking really is a behavior that should be condoned or/and supported by Blizzard.
    this was along the lines of the point i was making earlier. whether ganking and policy are right or wrong is pretty much irrelevant. the question is are there enough people that like being on the receiving end of that stuff to sustain populations? i doubt it. many pvp servers were in dire straights before crz. crz is just a bandaid. when the pops get low again blizz will merge even more servers into each crz, and repeat until every pvp server is sharing a single crz pool. then they have nowhere left to go

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 07:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    People have been threatening to quit over pretty much every single change Blizzard has ever implemented. It's a threat I don't even notice any more, especially when even this thread (and the prior one) is close to 50/50 on the subject, and forumgoers tend to be biased towards those given to making complaints.
    but plenty of people DID back up that theat. during WoW's sub slide last year which servers were hit the hardest? which have been dropping populations even when things picked up? pvp servers are being killed off by people that dont know the difference between pvp and douchebaggery imo
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    The fucking Derpship has crashed on Herp Island...
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    Meet the new derp.

    Same as the old derp.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Well, there ARE ways to strike back. Get your main, call for backup from your guild, in world defense, etc. But in general, no, ganking is not "negative" gameplay, any more than any other kind of PvP is. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but that's why there's two server types.
    And what if my main is the level 30 that has been repeatedly killed by the level 90? What do I do then? What if my character is in one of those all so common guilds that have 500 members where only 10 people are ever online? What should I do if I get my main and the player that has repeatedly been ganking me decides he does not want to fight me and flies away into another CRZ? Or he just sits there on his flying mount, out of reach, knowing there is nothing I can do to him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus;19946729People have been threatening to quit over pretty much every single change Blizzard has ever implemented. It's a threat I don't even notice any more, especially when even this thread (and the prior one) is close to 50/50 on the subject, [i
    and[/i] forumgoers tend to be biased towards those given to making complaints.
    Have you not noticed people have been following through with those threats for the past two years?

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