1. #1

    Revealing Strike - Do we just keep it up like SnD now?

    I have zero idea how I missed the change to RS or how long it's been out. I'm guessing it changed for 5.0 and I fell asleep at the switch. But here is my question for anyone that knows:

    Now that RS is simply an 18s debuff, do we keep it up on the target full time? No more need to punch it just before every finisher? As long as the debuff is up then I just SS and EV?

    Thx in advance!

  2. #2
    Yes.

    purplemonkeydishwasher.
    ---Veritas Aequitas:Truth is Justice---

  3. #3
    It's kinda tricky and a bit counter-intuitive at first... I, personally, hate what they've done to it. It's better than how it worked in Cataclysm, but still an abysmal mechanic.

    Essentially:
    - There's no benefit to keeping it up indefinitely
    - You will only gain something from the debuff as long as you're spending energy on Sinister Strikes and Eviscerates
    - Therefore, if you're both out of energy and you need to reapply the debuff, pooling a bit before doing so is preferable

    You can disregard the above and use the 4.3 "SPAM-TILL-I-DROP" tactic of Cataclysm and still do well. But if you want to min/max for some extra free dps, you'll have to introduce pooling into your Combat rotation as well... How far have we fallen!?

  4. #4
    Very stupid skill tbh

  5. #5
    To add on what Incineration as said (and it's 100% correct, but who am I to judge?), a few things to watch for:

    - if RvS goes down when you were about to recast SnD, don't bother putting it up first. It was already the case at the time, but I figured stating the obvious doesn't hurt anyone.
    - make sure to pool energy before RvS: you want to make the most out of those 18 seconds, so make sure to immediately follow a RvS by a SS or something (don't use when you just have the energy for a RvS, you won't benefit much from the first couple seconds, so they're basically wasted).
    - I didn't do the math to back this one, but I think it's still a DPS gain to use RvS and yet waste a CP than using Eviscerate without RvS (e.g. 10 CPs with Anticipation, no RvS debuff). 35% of an Eviscerate under Deep Insight should outweigh the DPS loss from a lost CP. But, what where you doing with 10 CPs and RvS down in the first place, you silly mongrel?
    Interested in light analysis, ramblings and other
    shenanigans about rogues? Check Badstabbers.

  6. #6
    Yeah, more or less. Just we don't need 100% uptime - just use it just before SSing and keep up for the finishers.

  7. #7
    I'm not sure about this, does rupture benefit from RvS's buff?

  8. #8
    Yes, it does. All damaging finishing moves do.
    Interested in light analysis, ramblings and other
    shenanigans about rogues? Check Badstabbers.

  9. #9
    Yea, it's messy for sure.
    Thx for the input and cheers!

  10. #10
    If ever a spell deserved the mechanic of another, it would be revealing strike and collosus smash

  11. #11
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelynath View Post
    Yes.

    purplemonkeydishwasher.
    Best 10 char response ever. Threads been answered but that gave me a good laugh.
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nryka View Post
    - I didn't do the math to back this one, but I think it's still a DPS gain to use RvS and yet waste a CP than using Eviscerate without RvS (e.g. 10 CPs with Anticipation, no RvS debuff). 35% of an Eviscerate under Deep Insight should outweigh the DPS loss from a lost CP. But, what where you doing with 10 CPs and RvS down in the first place, you silly mongrel?
    The cataclysm rule should still apply there. If it wasn't worth wasting the combo point in cataclysm, it's not worth wasting it in mists. That said, you should never be at 5CP + 5AP with RvS down. If you're at 5CP + 4AP and RvS is down (or has less than 3sec left), you RvS then finish. If you're at 5CP + 4AP and RvS is up, you cast your finisher. If you're at 5CP+3AP and RvS is down, RvS to 4AP, then finish. If you're at 5CP+3AP and RvS is up, then you SS once--RvS proc or not--and finish. If you're in deep insight, ignore anticipation altogether and cast your finisher as soon as you have 5 combo points. (Although I sometimes pool anticipation points in deep insight if it means I can cast a deep insight rupture but there isn't enough time in deep insight to perform 2 finishers).
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2013-01-23 at 06:05 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    If you're in deep insight, ignore anticipation altogether and cast your finisher as soon as you have 5 combo points.
    That's basically how I play at any insight level. Is that wrong for some reason?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
    That's basically how I play at any insight level. Is that wrong for some reason?
    Its a small gain to pool combo points with anticipation if doing so will allow you to advance your insight level before you fully cap your cp. So say you are at 5cp and 2 SS/RvS away from the next insight level, then you should hit SS twice and then evis so that your finisher gets the extra 10%.

  15. #15
    Note that the buff does nothing unless you press SS, evis, or rupture (or CT, technically). Minimize your Revealing Strike presses, but never press SS, evis, or rupture without it active.

    Example: You are at 7 CPs, revealing is falling off. Refresh it for 8 CPs. You may then eviscerate or SS normally as dictated by your strat and insight level.
    Example: You are at Green 1, with 1 CP and 10 energy. Revealing falls off. Pool to higher energy, allowing revealing to fall, then continue your rotation. Your insight count was low enough that you don't spend any extra time in green (you were energy limited), and by pooling a moment you've pushed out the revealing expiration longer- so you'll get in more SSes and less RSes, and do more of the dps.

    If you simply refresh it as it is falling, your damage loss won't be large at all, however. Perfect play with combat is sadly not nearly as rewarded as it could be.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    If you simply refresh it as it is falling, your damage loss won't be large at all, however. Perfect play with combat is sadly not nearly as rewarded as it could be.
    I'd say its really close to not even noticeable. Sure, tank and spank on a dummy for a long enough time, you can tell. But an actual fight with actual mechanics that do not effect everyone equally (i.e. fading light on ultraxion) in addition to the variance in your damage due to rng I would guess matches if not exceeds the difference between something like RvS if not up compared to more optimal RvS usage or even pooling anticipation charges for higher insight.

    Not that I'm advocating poor play, just that I would like to see a clearly visible difference between people who do strive for optimal play.

  17. #17
    Well, you can still try to play right and know YOU did the most damage you could manage under the conditions. I agree that sometimes you'l just have all the damage because blade flurry or rogue, and sometimes you'll be a poor contributor for some other reason (such as multidots or whatever where you can't help as much).


    I agree that the difference should be made bigger. I sometimes wonder what would happen if BG only affected autoattacks. Like buff combat's yellow attacks by like 40%, remove the AP bonus, and then make insight be 20/40/60% boost for autoattacks only. Then more focus on actually managing the buff or something, without being totally anemic without yellow or red insight, one of a few things hurting the spec in pvp (the other being recup and kidney not working with restless blades).

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