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  1. #1

    The 5.2 blog is tricking people

    into thinking that removing the rating requirements will allow everyone to eventually get to fair playing field by season's end.

    Unfortunately we have proof that it won't

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...27?page=21#419

    The rub is the new Elite armor set will be higher ilvl and cost so much most players will never get a full set.

    So instead of a 2200 higher ilvl weapon they are moving the ilvl advantage to the elite armor set that most people will never get enough points to purchase a full set. They may get a piece or two after they break 27,000CPs but they'll never catch up completely.

    I knew they'd find a way to screw this up.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire
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    MoP was released on Sept. 25th. You could earn points the first week from doing random BG wins. The season officially started on Oct. 2nd and is still a few weeks away from being completed (two week notice hasn't even been given yet).

    27000/1800 (base arena cap per week) = 15 weeks.
    10-02-12 to 1-22-13 is 16 weeks. Assuming that the two week notice doesn't go live today, that means we have a minimum of three weeks remaining, bringing the season total to 20 weeks.

    That's a total of 36000 points if you don't increase your rating past 1500, which gives you 14,000 points to spend on the Elite gear (Conquest cap is 5,000. When you hit 22,000 season earned, begin saving what you accumulate until you hit 27,000 and then purchase your elite gear. At that point, any gear that is currently below normal Tyrannical quality can be purchased with honor).

    So while you may not be able to buy a complete set, it really depends on the season length. All of that math is based on never breaking the 1500 rating requirement to increase your conquest point (or doing RBGs to earn more points than the arena cap).

    And not to be elitist, but if you can't break 1500, then you don't really deserve to get elite gear. While I personally think that the current system is flawed, I think the new system is bringing about even more of a welfare gear system which isn't what this game needs. I'd rather strive for something and have a goal to reach than just be spoon-fed everything and then have no goals to shoot for.
    Xrtn | Vengeful Gladiator | 90 Human Hunter
    Ascendancex | Hero of the Horde | 90 Draenei Shaman

    Check out my stream >> HERE << 2300+ RBGs / Arena / Wargames!

  3. #3
    oh, wow! who could had thought such a thing can happen in wow.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrix View Post
    And not to be elitist, but if you can't break 1500, then you don't really deserve to get elite gear.
    That's the problem right there. The notion of skill allowing you to have an ilvl advantage and essentially grief others.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by CompromisePlease View Post
    That's the problem right there. The notion of skill allowing you to have an ilvl advantage and essentially grief others.
    Same concept goes for raiding. Better players get better rewards. Go look at the math I did again, that was ONLY for arena cap at 1500. If you adjust it for the RBG cap, you're new 20 week total will be 44,000 points, for a total of 22000 spent on Tyrannical Elite gear. And that's at 1500. It's welfare gear, stop complaining.

    It really comes down to an easy solution: Get better, increase your cap, and collect your gear faster.
    Xrtn | Vengeful Gladiator | 90 Human Hunter
    Ascendancex | Hero of the Horde | 90 Draenei Shaman

    Check out my stream >> HERE << 2300+ RBGs / Arena / Wargames!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrix View Post
    Same concept goes for raiding. Better players get better rewards. Go look at the math I did again, that was ONLY for arena cap at 1500. If you adjust it for the RBG cap, you're new 20 week total will be 44,000 points, for a total of 22000 spent on Tyrannical Elite gear. And that's at 1500. It's welfare gear, stop complaining.

    It really comes down to an easy solution: Get better, increase your cap, and collect your gear faster.
    Comparing PvP progression to raid progression is utter nonsense. A heroic raider's gear doesn't negatively affect my LFR experience.

    And the solution is the elite armor should be the same ilvl as regular. You should spend that extra conquest on cosmetic changes, not power increases.

  7. #7
    I'm so fucking tired of having to farm the same shit gear every season... and now I'm going to have to farm 2 sets? For one single fucking spec? GG, 5.2 is going to suck balls for arena, can't even gear up an offspec (couldn't do it this season either, but at least there was hope).

  8. #8
    nakatoir has a history of being completely ignorant about the actual workings of pvp.

    if you can't earn enough points to get elite tyranical by the end of the season, you are not taking pvp seriously enough to need elite tyranical. mid range and high end players will all be on the same playing field gear wise and it will cut down on the 2.2k wintraders and exploiters.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Nest's Avatar
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    MoP will be remembered from grinding. PvP will stay garbage in 5.2.
    Heyoo!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CompromisePlease View Post
    into thinking that removing the rating requirements will allow everyone to eventually get to fair playing field by season's end.

    Unfortunately we have proof that it won't

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...27?page=21#419

    The rub is the new Elite armor set will be higher ilvl and cost so much most players will never get a full set.

    So instead of a 2200 higher ilvl weapon they are moving the ilvl advantage to the elite armor set that most people will never get enough points to purchase a full set. They may get a piece or two after they break 27,000CPs but they'll never catch up completely.

    I knew they'd find a way to screw this up.
    I don't care. I know I will never amass THAT kind of conquest points but then, like you said, not that many will, so the odds of being facerolled by people in such ludicrous gear will be very slim. So yeah, w/e.

  11. #11
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Lovely, instead of fixing the current gear gap, they make it even bigger and they add a ridiculous conquestpoint requirement on it that casuals still won't reach instead of a rating requirement that's easy to reach by exploiting.

  12. #12
    They can still tweak the number of points needed. I don't know if they will, but they could.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    if you can't earn enough points to get elite tyranical by the end of the season, you are not taking pvp seriously enough to need elite tyranical. mid range and high end players will all be on the same playing field gear wise
    High end players are on the same playing field now. These changes don't affect high end players.

    So my point stands. They are just shifting the ilvl advantage from the weapon to the elite armor set.

    Most people just haven't figured out they'll never earn enough conqest during a season to get a full elite set. They read that rating requirements are being removed and suddenly think that means they can catch up.

    In the blog he's not explicit about the armor being higher ilvl. He says four tiers but some players don't understand that tier == ilvl.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CompromisePlease View Post
    into thinking that removing the rating requirements will allow everyone to eventually get to fair playing field by season's end.

    Unfortunately we have proof that it won't

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...27?page=21#419

    The rub is the new Elite armor set will be higher ilvl and cost so much most players will never get a full set.

    So instead of a 2200 higher ilvl weapon they are moving the ilvl advantage to the elite armor set that most people will never get enough points to purchase a full set. They may get a piece or two after they break 27,000CPs but they'll never catch up completely.

    I knew they'd find a way to screw this up.

    Ya but with the new system, people with the elite gear will have no real reason other than to play with a less geared friend to be at lower ratings unlike now where you can't go 5 games in the 1800-2100 range of RBG/Arena without bumping into 2200 weapons from rating sellers.

    So if I'm starting mid season, or even just a few weeks late, I can slowly climb the ladder playing against like geared people and if my goal is truly to catch up, I will, once I've played enough to have a full elite set, at which point only skill will really determine the top of the ladder.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Captaincrab View Post
    So if I'm starting mid season, or even just a few weeks late, I can slowly climb the ladder playing against like geared people and if my goal is truly to catch up, I will, once I've played enough to have a full elite set, at which point only skill will really determine the top of the ladder.
    The regular set is 27,000 CPs now. Assume the elite set is also 27,000CPs. You can save up 5k Conquest. So it will take 54k-5k = 49k Conquest to get the elite set.

    So playing from the beginning of the season and getting 1800pts/week, it will take you 28 weeks to get a full elite set. So that's 7 months of playing each week.

    A 2250 RBG player will earn 3600/week and gear up in half the time.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrix View Post
    And not to be elitist, but if you can't break 1500, then you don't really deserve to get elite gear. While I personally think that the current system is flawed, I think the new system is bringing about even more of a welfare gear system which isn't what this game needs. I'd rather strive for something and have a goal to reach than just be spoon-fed everything and then have no goals to shoot for.
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    if you can't earn enough points to get elite tyranical by the end of the season, you are not taking pvp seriously enough to need elite tyranical. mid range and high end players will all be on the same playing field gear wise and it will cut down on the 2.2k wintraders and exploiters.
    Arena/RBG ≠ PvP. But they are the only viable way to get gear. It needlessly punishes those who just do the required games to get the point cap so they can PvP, similar to the current T2 weapons.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CompromisePlease View Post
    The regular set is 27,000 CPs now. Assume the elite set is also 27,000CPs. You can save up 5k Conquest. So it will take 54k-5k = 49k Conquest to get the elite set.

    So playing from the beginning of the season and getting 1800pts/week, it will take you 28 weeks to get a full elite set. So that's 7 months of playing each week.

    A 2250 RBG player will earn 3600/week and gear up in half the time.
    You are forgetting that rating will inflate a little and the lower ratings, say 2k and below, won't be flooded by rating sellers so you won't be fighting that guy that been playing every week since the start.

    So say you are a skilled player and manage to hit say 1800-1900 rating in your first week, the next you'll have more points to deal with and you'll STILL be playing roughly against people with your gear because the guy who outgears you will be higher up on the ladder, unless he's really terrible in which case you can outplay him.

    Point is, with the arbitrary 2200 mark, you had hundreds if not thousands of players that get carried every single week to the weapons, and everyone past that 2200 mark is either not playing or Glad material. So if you wanted a shot at hitting 2200 to get the gear, you had to do so by bashing your head against everyone selling rating that clearly outgear you. Like I said, can't go 5 games in 1800+ range without seeing one of them.

    New system, no one is encouraged to stop if they get past 2200, no one is encouraged to go back and sell rating using gear obtained by hitting 27000. Hence... We have a real ladder.

    The other little perks of the system are there mostly to fix the other problem which was Gladiator titles that got decided largely in the first 2 weeks.
    Last edited by Captaincrab; 2013-01-22 at 11:37 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Captaincrab View Post
    You are forgetting that rating will inflate a little and the lower ratings, say 2k and below, won't be flooded by rating sellers so you won't be fighting that guy that been playing every week since the start.

    So say you are a skilled player and manage to hit say 1800-1900 rating in your first week, the next you'll have more points to deal with and you'll STILL be playing roughly against people with your gear because the guy who outgears you will be higher up on the ladder, unless he's really terrible in which case you can outplay him.

    Point is, with the arbitrary 2200 mark, you had hundreds if not thousands of players that get carried every single week to the weapons, and everyone past that 2200 mark is either not playing or Glad material. So if you wanted a shot at hitting 2200 to get the gear, you had to do so by bashing your head against everyone selling rating that clearly outgear you. Like I said, can't go 5 games in 1800+ range without seeing one of them.

    New system, no one is encouraged to stop if they get past 2200, no one is encouraged to go back and sell rating using gear obtained by hitting 27000. Hence... We have a real ladder.

    The other little perks of the system are there mostly to fix the other problem which was Gladiator titles that got decided largely in the first 2 weeks.
    this post looks so good i tried to lick it off my screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  19. #19
    Its not that bad, blizzard said that the ilvl difference will be minimal, so while people at the top have a advantage it wont be a wall like the 2200 weapons wich increases damage by 20% or so

  20. #20
    I have an weekly cap of 3574 conquest points and I am completly and absolutely against this. In fact it makes me angry, really angry. raaawr angry.

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