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  1. #21
    If warlocks got a talent so they don´t need a pet. Then why shouldn´t hunters be able to get it?
    My thoughts about the word "hunter" is similiar to ranger. I don´t see the benefit of a hunter using a pet.
    Sure, beast mastery spec would probably need to continue with pets. But what about Marskmanship?
    It really feels like Marksmanship should be rangers and not rely on pets. It would also bring hunters a different playstyle, if you want it.
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  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire Conjor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osserai View Post
    If warlocks got a talent so they don´t need a pet. Then why shouldn´t hunters be able to get it?
    My thoughts about the word "hunter" is similiar to ranger. I don´t see the benefit of a hunter using a pet.
    Sure, beast mastery spec would probably need to continue with pets. But what about Marskmanship?
    It really feels like Marksmanship should be rangers and not rely on pets. It would also bring hunters a different playstyle, if you want it.
    THIS JUST IN!

    Blizzard created a new archetype called "The Hunter" which builds upon the idea of a "Ranger" archetype but with an emphasis on companions known as "Pets". Trying to argue "Hunter" is synonymous with "Ranger" is an oversimplification. Hunters are the staple pet class. Pets are part of us. They are not going to go away just because another archetype within the Warcraft universe, which has a "similar" pet-based mechanic, can get rid of their pet.

    Also, this comparison between Warlocks and Hunters has been addressed before. Warlock "pets" are not "pets", they are disposable minions summoned purely to serve the Warlock and have no other purpose. The Warlock has no sense of loyalty nor holds remorse towards his summoned minions. That is why it makes sense to "sacrifice" a Warlock "pet"; the Warlock doesn't give a shit what happens to them and holds no relationship with them. They are tools, nothing more.

    The Hunter is the exact opposite. There is a bond between a Hunter and his pet, a symbiotic relationship if you will. Where a Warlock simply summons a demon from the Twisting Nether, we hunt down a prized beast, tame him, and make him a treasured companion that follows us around the world. Our pets are not just tools, they are companions.

    As an aside, when I personally think of the word "Hunter" irl, I think of some guy with a bow / gun with a hound or retriever next to him aided him in his hunt.
    Last edited by Conjor; 2013-01-23 at 05:01 PM.

  3. #23
    Blademaster erragall's Avatar
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    what are peoples thoughts on a CD which fuses the hunter with his pet (not a sacrifice) for say 10-20 sseconds on a 2-3minute cd. As i mentioned in a earlier post about it but i feel the idea is different enough that it can be discussed. For instance, combining with your pet imo for a short period of time would strengthen the bond the hunter has with the pet.
    Some of the details i already described but heres a pretty good idea of what the Cooldown could look like:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNACC...ilpage#t=1962s

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyph3r View Post
    Search function is ^ that way.

    It makes sense on the surface, but will never happen for balance reasons. The moment you make the AI controlled portion of the class optional, it becomes the only accepted choice for high end content, pve or pvp. Here, I'll sum it up for you with a question:

    As a raid leader, why should I let you bring a pet to my raid if you can do the same dps without relying on AI that can cause problems?
    This right here is why people ask for pet less spec. Blizzard needs to realize that if they put more 'pet' type abilities (stampede, dire beast, new 2pc set bonuse) into the hunters play style then they need to improve pet AI. We have had this AI forever. It was what three or four years ago that they changed the pets to attack from the back?

    I personally think pets for MM/Surv specs are plain and simply boring dmg boosters. They are a set and forget type of mechanic. Might as well be a walking dot that gets stuck in places, has travel time during target switching and sometimes does not benifite from dmg buffs and some boss mechanics. If locks (who are just as much of a pet class as hunters) can have a pet less way to play then hunters should be able to have one too.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 11:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Conjor View Post
    THIS JUST IN!

    Blizzard created a new archetype called "The Hunter" which builds upon the idea of a "Ranger" archetype but with an emphasis on companions known as "Pets". Trying to argue "Hunter" is synonymous with "Ranger" is an oversimplification. Hunters are the staple pet class. Pets are part of us. They are not going to go away just because another archetype within the Warcraft universe, which has a "similar" pet-based mechanic, can get rid of their pet.

    Also, this comparison between Warlocks and Hunters has been addressed before. Warlock "pets" are not "pets", they are disposable minions summoned purely to serve the Warlock and have no other purpose. The Warlock has no sense of loyalty nor holds remorse towards his summoned minions. That is why it makes sense to "sacrifice" a Warlock "pet"; the Warlock doesn't give a shit what happens to them and holds no relationship with them. They are tools, nothing more.

    The Hunter is the exact opposite. There is a bond between a Hunter and his pet, a symbiotic relationship if you will. Where a Warlock simply summons a demon from the Twisting Nether, we hunt down a prized beast, tame him, and make him a treasured companion that follows us around the world. Our pets are not just tools, they are companions.

    As an aside, when I personally think of the word "Hunter" irl, I think of some guy with a bow / gun with a hound or retriever next to him aided him in his hunt.
    If hunters are the staple pet class then locks are too. They get pets from level one just like hunters do. Yet they can have a pettiness way to play. You forget hunters are a range dps class first with a pet second. Even BM back in the day was 30% pet rest was hunter. They have changed BM to be way more pet oriented in the past few years. But MM/Surv have pets to be set and forget abilities aka boring mechanic riddled with AI bugs.

    If no pet less spec is heading to hunters then please improve pet AI Blizzard! 8 years of same AI is pretty dumb.
    Last edited by Slot; 2013-01-23 at 06:00 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Conjor View Post
    THIS JUST IN!

    Blizzard created a new archetype called "The Hunter" which builds upon the idea of a "Ranger" archetype but with an emphasis on companions known as "Pets". Trying to argue "Hunter" is synonymous with "Ranger" is an oversimplification. Hunters are the staple pet class. Pets are part of us. They are not going to go away just because another archetype within the Warcraft universe, which has a "similar" pet-based mechanic, can get rid of their pet.

    Also, this comparison between Warlocks and Hunters has been addressed before. Warlock "pets" are not "pets", they are disposable minions summoned purely to serve the Warlock and have no other purpose. The Warlock has no sense of loyalty nor holds remorse towards his summoned minions. That is why it makes sense to "sacrifice" a Warlock "pet"; the Warlock doesn't give a shit what happens to them and holds no relationship with them. They are tools, nothing more.

    The Hunter is the exact opposite. There is a bond between a Hunter and his pet, a symbiotic relationship if you will. Where a Warlock simply summons a demon from the Twisting Nether, we hunt down a prized beast, tame him, and make him a treasured companion that follows us around the world. Our pets are not just tools, they are companions.

    As an aside, when I personally think of the word "Hunter" irl, I think of some guy with a bow / gun with a hound or retriever next to him aided him in his hunt.
    Staple pet class? Locks get their pets at lvl one just like hunters. They control them just like hunters. They both have pet special abilities and both give buffs to raids. Your logic in locks pets being disposable minions is wrong. Hunters are a range dps class first with pets. Back in the day before kill command for BM the pets dmg as BM did 30ish% of the hunters dps. Only recently did BM pets have a much greater role in the hunter dps. As for Surv/MM pets are no more then a set and forget dmg mechanic the hunter is forced to use. They are riddled with AI bugs, travel time and bugs with boss buffs/mechanics.

    If locks (which have a pet mechanic just as much as hunters) can have a pet less options then at the very least MM hunters should have this.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Conjor View Post
    THIS JUST IN!

    Blizzard created a new archetype called "The Hunter" which builds upon the idea of a "Ranger" archetype but with an emphasis on companions known as "Pets". Trying to argue "Hunter" is synonymous with "Ranger" is an oversimplification. Hunters are the staple pet class. Pets are part of us. They are not going to go away just because another archetype within the Warcraft universe, which has a "similar" pet-based mechanic, can get rid of their pet.

    Also, this comparison between Warlocks and Hunters has been addressed before. Warlock "pets" are not "pets", they are disposable minions summoned purely to serve the Warlock and have no other purpose. The Warlock has no sense of loyalty nor holds remorse towards his summoned minions. That is why it makes sense to "sacrifice" a Warlock "pet"; the Warlock doesn't give a shit what happens to them and holds no relationship with them. They are tools, nothing more.

    The Hunter is the exact opposite. There is a bond between a Hunter and his pet, a symbiotic relationship if you will. Where a Warlock simply summons a demon from the Twisting Nether, we hunt down a prized beast, tame him, and make him a treasured companion that follows us around the world. Our pets are not just tools, they are companions.

    As an aside, when I personally think of the word "Hunter" irl, I think of some guy with a bow / gun with a hound or retriever next to him aided him in his hunt.
    As I Agree for the most part, I couldn't give a fuck about lore. I rolled hunter for a ranged physical based class that I play in every game, and the pet is nuisance. Not to mention that the talent specialization "Marksman" implies that it should indeed put emphasis on a bow or gun and not on a companion. I believe that an entire new ranged physical class that uses guns or bows should be implemented as there is no other class for competition on these now. Every item should have competing classes to keep the items from being rendered useless in the case of not having the class, or being too important when you have a large amount of the class.

    EDIT: The problem that lies with this - too many agility based classes now. We can't add a ranged strength based, that would be awkward. A rework is necessary.

  7. #27
    Blizz could add another mail based agility class with all the archer type.

    Hunter : Beast Mastery - Ranged/pet based spec
    Companion Master: Pet Tank based spec
    Beast: Melee/pet based spec


    Ranger: Survival: Traps/explosives
    Marksman: Ranged weaponry
    Gatherer: Healer (uses plants and nature found in forests to heal companions)

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Conjor View Post
    This has been discussed ad nauseum on every WoW hunter forum. It eventually ends up at:

    This topic has been visited alot I agree, but surely that shows there is a demand, no matter how small.

    I see no reason why this isnt an option in modern day wow. at one time locks were intertwined with their pets and now look.. why can we not have something similar. it would open up a whole new gameplay option for hunters, its not like it would limit anything. more choice is never a bad thing!

    I think a flat % increase would be fine. with the buff the pet gives being auto applied to your main shot (kc/chim/explosive respectively.) or simply have it tied into Serpent sting. this would in my eyes still be a sacrifices as you would lose out on any unique pet abilities such as spiders web etc. and Masters call would become redundant.

    Spirit Bond Extended Link - Increases your Health and damage by 15% as you take on the prowess of your companion, gaining you the boon they grant on application of serpent sting. also reduces the effect of snares by 25%

    The snare reduction is there to compensate losing Masters call

    There is no reason NOT to have this really, hunters are their pets are no more bonded then warlocks and theirs in my eyes.

    I love my pet, but I would LOVE this gameplay change. I ignore my pet most of the time, slap it on assist and let it go (I play MM) the only time I use anything is when I use my spider for pvp.

  9. #29
    It makes sense on the surface, but will never happen for balance reasons. The moment you make the AI controlled portion of the class optional, it becomes the only accepted choice for high end content, pve or pvp. Here, I'll sum it up for you with a question:

    As a raid leader, why should I let you bring a pet to my raid if you can do the same dps without relying on AI that can cause problems?
    Sooo because Bliz has not fixed the AI of pets in 8 years and still design encounters where pets bug out or simply cannot dps the boss... THATS the reason we shouldnt have a petless spec?

    What does it say that pretty much everyone knows that if we had a petless spec most all raiders would use it no matter which spec it is...

    Says to me that we are suffering from Bliz's complete and epic failure and we are being punished for thier lack of insight and ability. These are not reasons to not give us a petless spec... those are reasons TO give us a petless spec.
    Who cares if that is the go to spec for raiding? If they cant fix thier craptastic AI and design bosses where pets can actually dps them... they need to do something and IMO this is it.
    They are not going to go away just because another archetype within the Warcraft universe, which has a "similar" pet-based mechanic, can get rid of their pet.
    This kind of thing makes me chuckle... Im not sure how long you have been here but those of us that have been around awhile remember the EXACT same arguement about flying mounts, LFD tool, LFR, Xmog, dead zone, no min range, volley, mana, launching traps.... shall I go on? You have no idea what they may or may not do... what history shows us is that if enough people bitch about it, they will do it. Its about money and keeping subs... not about your prescious "lore" or "archtype" logic.

    Warlock "pets" are not "pets", they are disposable minions summoned purely to serve the Warlock and have no other purpose
    And what "higher" purpose do hunter pets serve? They do the exact same thing warlock pets do... and they are just as disposable, last i checked one click on them and u can abandon them... there is not ritual, you dont have to take it to the vet to kill it, you dont have a funeral for it or flush it down the toliet... its just as disposable and neglected as any other classes pet.

    we hunt down a prized beast, tame him, and make him a treasured companion that follows us around the world. Our pets are not just tools, they are companions.
    So we hunt down a beast, take it from its natural habitat, force it to serve us by using our will to overcome its will, and then stuff it in a zoo (stable/spell book) to be used by us for whatever buff or debuff we need while ignoring all the others...
    Your arguement may of held water back when we had to actually level the pets, or we had to tame new pets so current pets could learn thier ability... the problem with your logic is we summon, use and dispose of pets in a single click for each action.. there is no "interaction or bond" any longer...

    Ya sounds like an incredible "bond" of love, mutual trust and admiration...

  10. #30
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    I'dd love this soo much, is there any way of suggesting this without getting flamed? - I mean, there are so many tries, yet this is the first i have seen which has been positively received.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Nezz View Post
    I'dd love this soo much, is there any way of suggesting this without getting flamed? - I mean, there are so many tries, yet this is the first i have seen which has been positively received.
    There's been plenty of negative feedback already, but as usual for reasons of "lore". I'm astounded it's coming from a 16/16 heroic hunter, I would've expected him to be right there on the "hating pets" train considering all we've had to go through with pets over the years in competitive raid environments.

    I don't really understand why people who love their pets so much always see the need to shit on even the option of not having a pet. You don't have to do it. And arguing that having no pet would just make that the best/most optimal way to play isn't true at all - it's up to Blizzard to balance it to be even. They can make there be pros and cons to both. No pet? You can't choose a filler raid buff. You get a less-effective version of master's call, or you don't get it at all. You lose the ability to use certain glyphs (animal bond most notably). Blink Strike/Lynx rush would be turned into hunter versions. You get ~5% less of the pets DPS worth rolled into yourself. That way in fights where pets are reliable, you use them. When they aren't, you have the option not to. There are plenty of ways to balance it to be a considerable option either way.

  12. #32
    So what if the specs were setup as:

    Marksman - Pet is 10% damage / traps are 10% damage
    Survival - No pet / traps are 20% of damage
    Beast Master - No traps / pet is 20% of damage

    Would that be enough to give each spec it's own distinction?

  13. #33
    This whole "hunters are the staple pet class of wow" and "hunters are based around their pets" is a bunch of bull^*€}. Locks get their pets at level 1 just like hunters locks also have pets that do different things and give buffs. Locks are just as much of a pet class as hunters. But, both locks and hunters are range dps first with pets second. Only in the past few years have BM pets go from doing 30% of the hunters damage to nearly 60%. My point is that if locks got the option to go pet less and how they are a pet class just like hunters then so too should hunters get that option for at the very least MM.

    I wouldn't mind as much if Blizzard would stop giving more pet abilities (dire beast, stampede and the new 2pc set bonus) without improving the pet AI. The only change to the AI was a few years ago when they made all pets attack from the back. They still are riddled with bad pathing, boss mechanics that hinder pets, and travel time when target switching.

  14. #34
    Sounds amazing, but people who don't really even care bout the class in terms of mechanics or "fun" and only about the looks and RP shit, won't ever let this go through, and there's too many of those running around yelling at blizzard and making sure the class keeps blowing ass while they have their nice cute pets.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Skadovsk View Post
    Sounds amazing, but people who don't really even care bout the class in terms of mechanics or "fun" and only about the looks and RP shit, won't ever let this go through, and there's too many of those running around yelling at blizzard and making sure the class keeps blowing ass while they have their nice cute pets.
    Hahaha 100% agree. "The lore" of the class left the 2nd week wow came out for me. After that pets became a set and forget mechanic I had to deal with. Making sure I had my pet positioned to where it would attack the incoming boss from behind, good old BWL and MC.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot View Post
    This whole "hunters are the staple pet class of wow" and "hunters are based around their pets" is a bunch of bull^*€}. Locks get their pets at level 1 just like hunters locks also have pets that do different things and give buffs. Locks are just as much of a pet class as hunters. But, both locks and hunters are range dps first with pets second. Only in the past few years have BM pets go from doing 30% of the hunters damage to nearly 60%. My point is that if locks got the option to go pet less and how they are a pet class just like hunters then so too should hunters get that option for at the very least MM.

    I wouldn't mind as much if Blizzard would stop giving more pet abilities (dire beast, stampede and the new 2pc set bonus) without improving the pet AI. The only change to the AI was a few years ago when they made all pets attack from the back. They still are riddled with bad pathing, boss mechanics that hinder pets, and travel time when target switching.
    Basically people come up with this RP BS that hunters are friends with their pets and warlocks just use and abuse theirs. Well I basically just ignore my pet and every now and then just make sure it isnt dead. Unless you are BM it doesnt do enough of your damage to constantly micromanage it to avoid Blizzards failings at encounter design. The pet is a liability to MM and Surv hunters not a friend.

    It really doesnt matter to me how they implement a ranged bow spec w/o pets, I will go to that spec/class the second its available. Im hoping for a 4th hunter spec thats an actual WC2 ranger. But if you want to put a talent in for it to merge with or free your pet Ill use that too. Id even reroll and I hate leveling.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 09:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    So what if the specs were setup as:

    Marksman - Pet is 10% damage / traps are 10% damage
    Survival - No pet / traps are 20% of damage
    Beast Master - No traps / pet is 20% of damage

    Would that be enough to give each spec it's own distinction?
    It can better than that.

    MM - 100% hunter physical damage(a little nature from chimera) with bleeds (traps only useful for CC or AoE)
    Surv - 90/10 hunter/pet damage, elemental damage(poison and traps + black arrow)
    BM - Dont care just higher pet damage percent

    This would be actual spec distinction ad you could choose which one you want to play based on how much you like using pets, traps, dots, ect.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Conjor View Post
    THIS JUST IN!

    Blizzard created a new archetype called "The Hunter" which builds upon the idea of a "Ranger" archetype but with an emphasis on companions known as "Pets". Trying to argue "Hunter" is synonymous with "Ranger" is an oversimplification. Hunters are the staple pet class. Pets are part of us. They are not going to go away just because another archetype within the Warcraft universe, which has a "similar" pet-based mechanic, can get rid of their pet.

    Also, this comparison between Warlocks and Hunters has been addressed before. Warlock "pets" are not "pets", they are disposable minions summoned purely to serve the Warlock and have no other purpose. The Warlock has no sense of loyalty nor holds remorse towards his summoned minions. That is why it makes sense to "sacrifice" a Warlock "pet"; the Warlock doesn't give a shit what happens to them and holds no relationship with them. They are tools, nothing more.

    The Hunter is the exact opposite. There is a bond between a Hunter and his pet, a symbiotic relationship if you will. Where a Warlock simply summons a demon from the Twisting Nether, we hunt down a prized beast, tame him, and make him a treasured companion that follows us around the world. Our pets are not just tools, they are companions.

    As an aside, when I personally think of the word "Hunter" irl, I think of some guy with a bow / gun with a hound or retriever next to him aided him in his hunt.
    THIS JUST IN!

    Opinions remain opinions no matter how much you embellish them.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    So what if the specs were setup as:

    Marksman - Pet is 10% damage / traps are 10% damage
    Survival - No pet / traps are 20% of damage
    Beast Master - No traps / pet is 20% of damage

    Would that be enough to give each spec it's own distinction?
    right now MM and SV pets do 15-20% damage depending on race and encoutner

    BM pets are 50-60% of their damage depening on gear race and encounter. People do not realize how important pets are to EVER spec hunter, thats why there is always commnets ont he AI. Mo matter what any type of raid buff like Tiles on Stonguards, adds from protectors anything like that Hunters are always at about a 20% disadvantage because it does not apply to the pet. So many ignorant non hunters and even hunters cannot grasp that FACT and then they claim hunters are fine when they are handicapped on most of the heroic fights.

  19. #39
    High Overlord MadBloke101's Avatar
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    Haven't you been shown to speak utter twoddle enough ?

    Hunter-scaling-what-s-up/page2

    For point of reference...

    Oh well.

  20. #40
    Bloodsail Admiral Giants41's Avatar
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    I wish Blizz would just give us a ranger or a class that can use ranged weps without the damn pet but oh well =/
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