Thread: Warlock PvP

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  1. #1

    Warlock PvP

    New to the Arenas platform I am currently sitting at 61% resil. I am looking for some advice on whats the best spec/ strategy to play. I am currently specd as destro since its what I am most comfortable with however when I last did Arenas I was SL/SL lock in BC.. I have pved as Aff Demo and Destro in Wrath and just recently came back to the game for MoP. I have seen varying talent trees on which to spec.. Any advice would be great. I am partnered with a HPally.

  2. #2
    I asume you're talking about 2s if your partener is only a Hpala, right? Well, both Affliction and Demo work really good. Destro is by far the worst spec in arenas, imo, it may be very good in RBGs but in arenas no, imo again...

    Affliction is really good at destroying healers if you set up the stuff properly, Demo has more pressure but imo way less burst after the Chaos Wave nerf and if you meet competent healers/players that can decurse (mage, druid, shaman) you'll lose a lot of your damage 'cuz of dispelling Doom. Demo has a lot of survivability compared to Affliction (30 secs Cd on pet stun, bigger Sacrificial Pact shields, knockback is very useful in Dalaran or Blade's Edge, etc) and you basically don't cast anything as Demo. Affliction has really great burst if you time it really well... What I do is time my procs (Jade Spirit, Lightweave embroidery) and then pop DS and on use trinket, combined with Paladin mastery buff and CC (Blood Fear 1st so you can setup up your dots and haunt, Paladin uses stun (fist of justice), into a Death Coil and Blanket Pet silence)... this combined will result in instant death at lower ratings (and some gear ofc) or in massive CDs used at decent ratings with competent healers (you can do it in 30 secs again, after the Pala's stun CD is done, even tho you won't have the same burst, the healers will most likely have no CDs or trinket). If you can't kill healers, keep trying and spread dots on the other target aswell, but imo don't try to kill the dps especially if it's a melee, focus on the healer.

    As for talents, I use as 1 2 2 1 1 and 2 as Affliction or 3 as Demo for 2s arenas (you can choose howl in 3s aswell, or if you play with spriest, shadowfury seems the best option) or 1 2 1 1 3 2 as Destro whenever I play it for fun, regardless of what I do (arenas, rbgs, etc). Glyphs, HS + Soul Shards/Embers/Imp Swarm +UA/Conflagrate/Demon Training.

  3. #3
    I don't really agree that Affli is the way to go, maybe with dark soul and trinket you can do a nice bit of dmg, but the spec just doenst feel right in arena. Demo is nice but lacks the burst now funilly enough. I like destro cause if you go ham, stuff dies. Plus its way more rewarding to play, but that my own opinion. In most cases people are gonna sit on you and i rather do that as destro.

  4. #4
    i don't do a lot of pvp, but i prefer affli in general. keep shards for when you're bursting, i play with sacrifice, especially against casters or dps/healer set-ups, as you get the double spell lock, one from the puppy, and your own when you've sacced him, meaning you can keep a pretty OP chain going on your own, with coil, blood fear, and the blankets. double melee is a pain, makes you miss shadowflame a lot

  5. #5
    Thanks for the advice I will try out affliction see if I like it anybetter than Destro.. i do like the high crits of Choas bolt on targets.. hitting them for 70-80k at times is huge chunk of HP.. Yes my partner is a Holy Pally in 2s Arenas

  6. #6
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Umm, if this is about 2s, whatever you do, don't play as affliction, especially not with a healer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
    I asume you're talking about 2s if your partener is only a Hpala, right? Well, both Affliction and Demo work really good. Destro is by far the worst spec in arenas, imo, it may be very good in RBGs but in arenas no, imo again...

    Affliction is really good at destroying healers if you set up the stuff properly, Demo has more pressure but imo way less burst after the Chaos Wave nerf and if you meet competent healers/players that can decurse (mage, druid, shaman) you'll lose a lot of your damage 'cuz of dispelling Doom. Demo has a lot of survivability compared to Affliction (30 secs Cd on pet stun, bigger Sacrificial Pact shields, knockback is very useful in Dalaran or Blade's Edge, etc) and you basically don't cast anything as Demo. Affliction has really great burst if you time it really well... What I do is time my procs (Jade Spirit, Lightweave embroidery) and then pop DS and on use trinket, combined with Paladin mastery buff and CC (Blood Fear 1st so you can setup up your dots and haunt, Paladin uses stun (fist of justice), into a Death Coil and Blanket Pet silence)... this combined will result in instant death at lower ratings (and some gear ofc) or in massive CDs used at decent ratings with competent healers (you can do it in 30 secs again, after the Pala's stun CD is done, even tho you won't have the same burst, the healers will most likely have no CDs or trinket). If you can't kill healers, keep trying and spread dots on the other target aswell, but imo don't try to kill the dps especially if it's a melee, focus on the healer.

    As for talents, I use as 1 2 2 1 1 and 2 as Affliction or 3 as Demo for 2s arenas (you can choose howl in 3s aswell, or if you play with spriest, shadowfury seems the best option) or 1 2 1 1 3 2 as Destro whenever I play it for fun, regardless of what I do (arenas, rbgs, etc). Glyphs, HS + Soul Shards/Embers/Imp Swarm +UA/Conflagrate/Demon Training.
    Great example of a clueless and bad player here.
    Affliction destroys nothing, outside dark soul it bring no pressure nor burst. With dark soul it brings some pressure, but still no burst, unless you meet people with no resilience, but in that case, everything seems like burst.
    Lets mention as well that any healer that's competent enough to dispel doom will dispel all your affliction dots and haunt as well, because, why wouldn't they?

    And lets be honest, any geared healer will laugh in your face at your damage in 2s, even if you cc them and pop all your cooldowns. 1 single dispel and your damage is gone, 1 single stun/fear/poly/whatever, and you don't do any damage.... If you think anyone decent lets you free cast, you are wrong, but even then, you aren't a threat to them.

    And lol at trying to kill the healer instead of the dps... Ever heard of LoS? Even 1.5k rated healers know how to (ab)use it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Umm, if this is about 2s, whatever you do, don't play as affliction, especially not with a healer.



    Great example of a clueless and bad player here.
    Affliction destroys nothing, outside dark soul it bring no pressure nor burst. With dark soul it brings some pressure, but still no burst, unless you meet people with no resilience, but in that case, everything seems like burst.
    Lets mention as well that any healer that's competent enough to dispel doom will dispel all your affliction dots and haunt as well, because, why wouldn't they?

    And lets be honest, any geared healer will laugh in your face at your damage in 2s, even if you cc them and pop all your cooldowns. 1 single dispel and your damage is gone, 1 single stun/fear/poly/whatever, and you don't do any damage.... If you think anyone decent lets you free cast, you are wrong, but even then, you aren't a threat to them.

    And lol at trying to kill the healer instead of the dps... Ever heard of LoS? Even 1.5k rated healers know how to (ab)use it.
    ?
    I am assuming you play as a Lock which makes me wonder which spec do you perfer to play with and why in Arenas?

  8. #8
    Ok so I assume you are a warlock yourself. Which spec do you think is the best and why?

  9. #9
    Destruction is the way to go on RBG's but if its arena Demo provide survavibility while affli more dmg

  10. #10
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mezmarz View Post
    Ok so I assume you are a warlock yourself. Which spec do you think is the best and why?
    They are all equally bad, the spec you go just depends on what comp you go.
    As a general rule of thumb I'd say to stay away from affliction in 2s
    In 3s, when playing with a melee, go affliction, when playing with a caster, go destro or demo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durmindo View Post
    Destruction is the way to go on RBG's but if its arena Demo provide survavibility while affli more dmg
    Your damage as affliction doesn't matter, even if you double the damage of everyone else, if you ain't bringing pressure, you are as good as useless.
    Affliction is all about pressure, and unless you have dark soul up, or haunt + channeling MG, you bring no pressure. Haunt and MG are very easily countered, so don't expect pressure from that....
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-01-23 at 09:44 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    They are all equally bad, the spec you go just depends on what comp you go.
    As a general rule of thumb I'd say to stay away from affliction in 2s
    In 3s, when playing with a melee, go affliction, when playing with a caster, go destro or demo.



    Your damage as affliction doesn't matter, even if you double the damage of everyone else, if you ain't bringing pressure, you are as good as useless.
    Affliction is all about pressure, and unless you have dark soul up, or haunt + channeling MG, you bring no pressure. Haunt and MG are very easily countered, so don't expect pressure from that....
    Affliction is great with a bursty teammate or excellent cc, with a mage it's amazing, since you've got both. It's not good for 2s with a healer because it's too easily kited/Los'd/interrupted. I spent 15 minutes against a resto druid/rogue the other day as affliction/hpally. I could put out enough pressure to get them to low health but never enough to finish before being LoS'd because the burst is burst over 5-8 seconds, as opposed to the big burst that Demo can put out in 2 globals, even with the nerfed chaos waves.
    Demo still has great burst, it just needs to be timed, it's my favorite in 2s. especially against a melee healer team.
    I personally hate destro, it's just a boring spec for me, but it has great burst. If you can get the casts off that is, it's very easy to shut down.

    In general Affliction is the top spec among ranked pvpers, Demo is great at lower levels and in 2s. Destro is ok, I just personally hate the spec.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 09:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Umm, if this is about 2s, whatever you do, don't play as affliction, especially not with a healer.



    Great example of a clueless and bad player here.
    Affliction destroys nothing, outside dark soul it bring no pressure nor burst. With dark soul it brings some pressure, but still no burst, unless you meet people with no resilience, but in that case, everything seems like burst.
    Lets mention as well that any healer that's competent enough to dispel doom will dispel all your affliction dots and haunt as well, because, why wouldn't they?

    And lets be honest, any geared healer will laugh in your face at your damage in 2s, even if you cc them and pop all your cooldowns. 1 single dispel and your damage is gone, 1 single stun/fear/poly/whatever, and you don't do any damage.... If you think anyone decent lets you free cast, you are wrong, but even then, you aren't a threat to them.

    And lol at trying to kill the healer instead of the dps... Ever heard of LoS? Even 1.5k rated healers know how to (ab)use it.
    Affliction does great pressure in 3s, when you have dots rolling on 2 or 3 people. Destroys may be too strong a word, but it does bring good pressure. It's the top warlock spec at high ratings right now for a reason.

  12. #12
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Affliction is great with a bursty teammate or excellent cc, with a mage it's amazing, since you've got both. It's not good for 2s with a healer because it's too easily kited/Los'd/interrupted. I spent 15 minutes against a resto druid/rogue the other day as affliction/hpally. I could put out enough pressure to get them to low health but never enough to finish before being LoS'd because the burst is burst over 5-8 seconds, as opposed to the big burst that Demo can put out in 2 globals, even with the nerfed chaos waves.
    Demo still has great burst, it just needs to be timed, it's my favorite in 2s. especially against a melee healer team.
    I personally hate destro, it's just a boring spec for me, but it has great burst. If you can get the casts off that is, it's very easy to shut down.

    In general Affliction is the top spec among ranked pvpers, Demo is great at lower levels and in 2s. Destro is ok, I just personally hate the spec.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 09:50 PM ----------



    Affliction does great pressure in 3s, when you have dots rolling on 2 or 3 people. Destroys may be too strong a word, but it does bring good pressure. It's the top warlock spec at high ratings right now for a reason.
    Just asking, what rating are you playing on?

    Playing affliction with a mage is one of the stupidest things you can do. You have close to no defenses and you are going to play with another very squishy class that relies on casting?
    Sorry bro, it doesn't work.

    And honestly, if you think affliction does great pressure, you are playing on low rating against low geared players. The damage on the scoreboards means nothing, just saying. Seeing you care about what spec high ranked warlocks play, it surprises me you haven't seen any of them complaining that affliction brings little pressure since on AJ pretty much every lock agrees that affly lacks pressure.

    And really, affliction top spec? Right... RBG heavily favors destruction, in 2s noone plays affliction and in 3s it doesn't really matter what you play as long as you can spam fear while your warrior solos the other team...
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-01-23 at 10:01 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Just asking, what rating are you playing on?

    Playing affliction with a mage is one of the stupidest things you can do. You have close to no defenses and you are going to play with another very squishy class that relies on casting?
    Sorry bro, it doesn't work.

    And honestly, if you think affliction does great pressure, you are playing on low rating against low geared players. The damage on the scoreboards means nothing, just saying. Seeing you care about what spec high ranked warlocks play, it surprises me you haven't seen any of them complaining that affliction brings little pressure since on AJ pretty much every lock agrees that affly lacks pressure.

    And really, affliction top spec? Right... RBG heavily favors destruction, in 2s noone plays affliction and in 3s it doesn't really matter what you play as long as you can spam fear while your warrior solos the other team...
    Never noticed mages as particularly squishy, but my point was you want to play affliction with burst. If in 3s it doesn't matter you would see more playing demo or destro if there wasn't something about affliction that made them play it. I don't think you and I are using the word pressure in the same way: Pressure is lots of damage that has to be healed being put out continually--Pressure does not mean bringing someone low quickly. The idea is that you're spreading out a lot of damage so that the healer can't predict the damage and has to divide their attention.

    Now, I'm playing at low ratings trying to get up, but that doesn't mean I haven't been watching what the higher rated players do. MLS/MLD are strong teams and will be getting stronger as nerfs to some of the OP classes go out. I don't play RBGs at all, and don't really care about them one way or another. I meant to say affliction was top in ranked arena, wasn't talking about RBGs.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Never noticed mages as particularly squishy, but my point was you want to play affliction with burst. If in 3s it doesn't matter you would see more playing demo or destro if there wasn't something about affliction that made them play it. I don't think you and I are using the word pressure in the same way: Pressure is lots of damage that has to be healed being put out continually--Pressure does not mean bringing someone low quickly. The idea is that you're spreading out a lot of damage so that the healer can't predict the damage and has to divide their attention.

    Now, I'm playing at low ratings trying to get up, but that doesn't mean I haven't been watching what the higher rated players do. MLS/MLD are strong teams and will be getting stronger as nerfs to some of the OP classes go out. I don't play RBGs at all, and don't really care about them one way or another. I meant to say affliction was top in ranked arena, wasn't talking about RBGs.
    Pressure does not equal tons of damage.
    Even if I do 10x as much damage as anyone else in my team, if it brings no pressure, the healer won't go oom from it and you won't get kills.

    And MLD/MLS is becoming weaker next season, because both lock and mage are taking nerfs, as well as death knights, rogues and monks receiving buffs to make them top classes.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Pressure does not equal tons of damage.
    Even if I do 10x as much damage as anyone else in my team, if it brings no pressure, the healer won't go oom from it and you won't get kills.

    And MLD/MLS is becoming weaker next season, because both lock and mage are taking nerfs, as well as death knights, rogues and monks receiving buffs to make them top classes.
    Doing 10x the damage will result in pressure, that's the whole point. I take it that you think that locks are just going to blow next season and think they're crap this season?

    If I haven't missed anything, the major nerf to both locks and mages is blanket silence. then 5% off of GrimSac.

    The whole point of MLS/MLD is to control, spread a LOT of damage and look for a kill opportunity. If you're thinking it should play like TSG you're looking for the wrong thing. I don't know it will be a top comp, but it won't suck either. If your criteria for not sucking is the very best then we're talking about different things.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 10:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Doing 10x the damage will result in pressure, that's the whole point. I take it that you think that locks are just going to blow next season and think they're crap this season?

    If I haven't missed anything, the major nerf to both locks and mages is blanket silence. then 5% off of GrimSac.

    The whole point of MLS/MLD is to control, spread a LOT of damage and look for a kill opportunity. If you're thinking it should play like TSG you're looking for the wrong thing. I don't know it will be a top comp, but it won't suck either. If your criteria for not sucking is the very best then we're talking about different things.
    Edit: forgot about blood fear nerf, so there's that. But that makes casting fear 3x in a row the way to go again, like it used to be. Means that CC chains become more important than using cc as an intro to a kill.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Doing 10x the damage will result in pressure, that's the whole point. I take it that you think that locks are just going to blow next season and think they're crap this season?

    If I haven't missed anything, the major nerf to both locks and mages is blanket silence. then 5% off of GrimSac.

    The whole point of MLS/MLD is to control, spread a LOT of damage and look for a kill opportunity. If you're thinking it should play like TSG you're looking for the wrong thing. I don't know it will be a top comp, but it won't suck either. If your criteria for not sucking is the very best then we're talking about different things.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 10:28 PM ----------



    Edit: forgot about blood fear nerf, so there's that. But that makes casting fear 3x in a row the way to go again, like it used to be. Means that CC chains become more important than using cc as an intro to a kill.
    Ugh, I'm not going further into this discussion, you have no idea what pressure actually means. Pressure != damage, more damage != more pressure
    Do me a favor and check arena junkies and ask other multi glad warlocks, they'll all say the same.

    And fyi, almost every single mls/mld is played with destruction or demonology, not affliction. I rest my case.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Ugh, I'm not going further into this discussion, you have no idea what pressure actually means. Pressure != damage, more damage != more pressure
    Do me a favor and check arena junkies and ask other multi glad warlocks, they'll all say the same.

    And fyi, almost every single mls/mld is played with destruction or demonology, not affliction. I rest my case.
    I'm reading AJ, but beyond that:

    Are you trying to say that all warlocks are crap?

    As for pressure, again, there is a certain threshold of sustained damage which equates to pressure. If you're rolling dots on 3 targets with Haunt/MG on one that's a lot of damage, period, it has to be healed through, period. I watch this work in my games and in high ranked players games. Coordinated well with burst it will result in a kill.

    All I know is that I see very few demo/destro locks in the high rated brackets and a ton of affliction; I know I'll be testing affliction and demo both in this comp, and prefer demo. But to say, as you did above, that "They are all equally bad, the spec you go just depends on what comp you go" and further, "Your damage as affliction doesn't matter, even if you double the damage of everyone else, if you ain't bringing pressure, you are as good as useless.
    Affliction is all about pressure, and unless you have dark soul up, or haunt + channeling MG, you bring no pressure." suggests that you think players like Snutzy are just doing it wrong.

    On the one hand you say Affliction is about pressure and on the other you say the pressure sucks. you're contradicting yourself

  18. #18
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    I'm reading AJ, but beyond that:

    Are you trying to say that all warlocks are crap?

    As for pressure, again, there is a certain threshold of sustained damage which equates to pressure. If you're rolling dots on 3 targets with Haunt/MG on one that's a lot of damage, period, it has to be healed through, period. I watch this work in my games and in high ranked players games. Coordinated well with burst it will result in a kill.

    All I know is that I see very few demo/destro locks in the high rated brackets and a ton of affliction; I know I'll be testing affliction and demo both in this comp, and prefer demo. But to say, as you did above, that "They are all equally bad, the spec you go just depends on what comp you go" and further, "Your damage as affliction doesn't matter, even if you double the damage of everyone else, if you ain't bringing pressure, you are as good as useless.
    Affliction is all about pressure, and unless you have dark soul up, or haunt + channeling MG, you bring no pressure." suggests that you think players like Snutzy are just doing it wrong.
    Haunt gets instant dispelled, MG gets interrupted, where's your pressure now? It's gone.

    Doesn't snutz play destro right now? Meh, I don't really care about him anyway.
    Look, I have 8 times gladiator and 2x hero of the horde on my warlock, playing on the hardest battlegroup eu, do you really think I have no idea how warlocks and comps with warlocks work?

    And yes, I'm saying warlock is in a terrible state right now, and will be even worse in 5.2



    On the one hand you say Affliction is about pressure and on the other you say the pressure sucks. you're contradicting yourself
    Or I'm just saying that affliction is shit because it doesn't bring the pressure it's supposed to bring?
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-01-23 at 11:01 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Haunt gets instant dispelled, MG gets interrupted, where's your pressure now? It's gone.

    Doesn't snutz play destro right now? Meh, I don't really care about him anyway.
    Look, I have 8 times gladiator and 2x hero of the horde on my warlock, playing on the hardest battlegroup eu, do you really think I have no idea how warlocks and comps with warlocks work?

    And yes, I'm saying warlock is in a terrible state right now, and will be even worse in 5.2





    Or I'm just saying that affliction is shit because it doesn't bring the pressure it's supposed to bring?
    At least the other day Snutz was affliction.

    Ok, If that's what you're saying that's what you're saying, not very productive for someone trying to get into warlock pvp as the OP was, but that's fine. Making sure I was understanding you; i thought that perhaps you didn't mean to say all 3 specs blew right now.

    I don't think things will be quite as bad as you do, but you do have the experience on me. The PTR cycle isn't over, hopefully we'll see a more balanced season and dks/monks/rogues wont' be over buffed. The single biggest problem with affliction isn't the damage, it's the survivability, so hopefully we'll see some buffs there.

    This next season will be my first to focus on pvp, similar to the OP, MLS/MLD will be sufficient to get me to where my goal is for the season. If I was expecting Glad this season it'd be a different story.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 11:09 PM ----------

    Also: Fel Armor Increases your armor by 2,603 Reduces damage taken by 10%, total health by 10% and the amount of health generated through spells and effects by 10%.

    Sacrificial Pact Your demon sacrifices 25% of its current health to shield its master for 200% of the sacrificed health. 400% of the sacrificed health.

    Unstable AfflictionIf the Unstable Affliction is dispelled it will cause [ 1,792 + 7.000 * 24.0% of SP ] damage to the dispeller and silence them for 4 sec. If the Unstable Affliction is dispelled it will cause [ 2,048 + 8.000 * 24.0% of SP ] damage to the dispeller and silence them for 4 sec. This damage always critically strikes.

    These are the types of buffs that will hopefully help the survivability and add in some sort of dispel protection to affliction.

    I mean, there are some pretty hard nerfs, but there are some decent buffs too.

  20. #20
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    Actually I was saying that all 3 speces blow right now....

    I just wanted to get to the point of; don't play affliction in 2s, you won't ever get a kill unless the other team either has no healer or an incompetent healer.

    You do some damage during dark soul and for the rest you just spam blood fear. Without those 2 spells, you can as well go 2v3 since you are completely useless.
    Destruction relies on abusing a bug with seduce and havoc chaosbolts with dark soul, demonology is all about popping everything and chaoswaving and affliction is all about sb:ss everyone and popping dark soul. For the rest you just spam blood fear, the rest you do doesn't matter as long as you don't die.

    The whole revamp fucked all 3 speces up, it's just due how overpowered blood fear currently is and how strong dark soul is that we are somewhat viable right now.
    Everything works till 1.5k, but if you want to play 2s seriously, or get a high rating in 3s, you're better off rerolling a shadowpriest. There are still warlocks that reach good ratings, lower then normally, but still good. However, this are extremely skilled players. The average player will struggle hard to reach a somewhat decent rating in 3s.

    Now, understand I play on a much higher level; with and against people on that higher level. At your rating, feel free to try out your comps, it will work till a certain rating, just like everything, but don't expect to get a "good" rating with it, especially not once 5.2 hits.

    And I just gonna have to say it again, warlocks are trash right now and 5.2 isn't making it better. You may fit in more comps, but warlocks themselves will be noticeably weaker.

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