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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire High Priestess Ishanah's Avatar
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    So does anyone defend Garrosh anymore?

    just wondering. He had a strong hatebase in Wrath and cata, but also had a lot of people arguing in his favor and finding merit in his actions.

    not really the case with MoP. Are there any Garrosh supporters left? Do any players (Horde or Alliance) think he's still in the right or doing the right thing? Does he have any genuine fans anymore, or has turning him to the evil end of xpac boss gotten rid of them all?

  2. #2
    Based on what I've read on the MMO forums, seems like plenty of people still dig him.

    I personally think he should have been left crying into a Nagrand campfire, but meh, water long under that bridge.

  3. #3
    Brewmaster Xheoul's Avatar
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    I liked Garrosh. And during Cata I think he was a great leader with a sense of honor. sure, he was harsh but I liked him better as a leader than Thrall since things were headed in a "Hey guys, let's strive for peace." kinda deal and I personally love the hatred between Alliance and Horde. However, Blizz noticed all the playerbase that hated Garrosh and basically made him unlikeable with all the evil shit he's doing in the novels and MoP. It's a shame cause I think Garrosh had awesome potential.

  4. #4
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    It's kind of hard to defend a guy whom even the writers have likened to Adolf Hitler.

    I did like him in Cata/The Shattering/Heart of War though. I feel he could've gone both ways from there.

  5. #5
    I would've liked him if his faction and people in particular didn't have impervious plot armour.*


    *In Cataclysm, as of MoP his head on a pike is the best option

  6. #6
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    I think any of you people who thought any good of Garrosh are extremely misguided or lack any sense of moral understanding when it comes to characters.

    If you want to like a character because he's a massive douchebag, fine, do so, but stop equating such a character into the theme of the horde and as if just because he's the warchief that it means he represents it. He doesn't, Garrosh doesn't represent jack shit what the horde is about.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 10:15 PM ----------

    I also find the fickle nature of the warcraft community just laughable in dicussions like this. Its all "oh man I loved him in cata but blizzard has so upended him like now and thats bad because he was not like this before". How can people be so out of touch with whats been happening in the story to have missed all the obvious points along the way.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I also find the fickle nature of the warcraft community just laughable in dicussions like this. Its all "oh man I loved him in cata but blizzard has so upended him like now and thats bad because he was not like this before". How can people be so out of touch with whats been happening in the story to have missed all the obvious points along the way.
    Because I don't think anyone would've thought that the Orc which executed a general for committing war crimes in his name, outraged at such an act, would go on to not only commit greater ones himself, but encourage his people that it's an honourable thing.
    In Cata he was brash, hot-headed, and got in over his head. He should've learned a lesson but because he was "victorious" he didn't...

  8. #8
    Garrosh has been a raging failure as a leader since day 1.

    Outland: Village elder is dying, so he weeps into a campfire and lets his people suffer and die cause he doesn't care.
    Northrend: RAWR! I don't need tactics or strategy! Just throw soldiers at the problem until it breaks! I'm in charge because Thrall is an idiot who hero worships my dad!
    Cataclysm: My leadership has cost us significant resources and actually resulted in us losing territory! If it wasn't for the forsaken and goblins (who I hate for not being orcs) adding new zones, the horde would be smaller and weaker now than ever before!
    Pandaria: Using pure hate and rage to destroy my own soldiers sounds like a great idea!

  9. #9
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    I like the evolution of his character, and the fact that no matter how much he's changed overtime (as in gone from a Redeemable, Semi Respectable Warchief to a Power Hungry Racist), his "core" has stayed the same.

    And that core is he's a scared, little Maghar boy still trapped in his Father's shadow.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Hildefuns's Avatar
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    Why didn't Jorin Deadeye push him into the fire while in Nagrand?

  11. #11
    Garrosh is what I liked orcs to be, warmongering. The orcs like Thrall are basically humans v2.0.

  12. #12
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    He's a decent example of something that used to be called the Peter Principle which is that in any heirarchy/organization people who do well are promoted up the line until they get into a job they can't do very well. Great warrior, less-than-great faction leader.

    Anyway, back on topic, I think a lot of people stopped defending him once we found out that we're apparently going to do away with him (note I did not write the word 'kill'). Which may have been a deliberate thing by Blizzard to keep a lot of people from getting invested in him.
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  13. #13
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Because I don't think anyone would've thought that the Orc which executed a general for committing war crimes in his name, outraged at such an act, would go on to not only commit greater ones himself, but encourage his people that it's an honourable thing.
    In Cata he was brash, hot-headed, and got in over his head. He should've learned a lesson but because he was "victorious" he didn't...
    Yes, he should have learned it, but he didn't. Everything about Garrosh since TBC has been rotten, from his lack of leadership in freeing his own clansmen, right up to him now arranging vol'jin assassination and using the sha to corrupt his own men into weapons to use against the alliance, Everything was leading to this.

    Garrosh is the kind of character who starts off aggressive but makes you believe he's on your side, but it builds and builds until he doesn't care who dies for his cause. He is Captain Ahab. He's that punk ass general from Avatar. He's that little bastard in the Green mile who tortured the prisoners. THATS his character.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 10:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Garrosh is what I liked orcs to be, warmongering. The orcs like Thrall are basically humans v2.0.
    Orcs like Garrosh are what the dark horde was, the stupid, barbaric thugs with no direction and always end up dead.

    Orcs that follow Thralls example want to build, they want to protect there home and family, and if they have to fight the alliance, scourge or legion to do it, they will, to defend it.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  14. #14
    /raise hand

    Blizzard listened to the haters and ruined the most promising orc leader. Garrosh had so much potential in TBC, just like the whole game. The devs ruined him and the game.

  15. #15
    We as players can easily see some of his shortcomings, but for the orcs themselves they probably see him as a strong leader that is just doing what's necessary to keep his people alive in a time of war.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Yes, he should have learned it, but he didn't. Everything about Garrosh since TBC has been rotten, from his lack of leadership in freeing his own clansmen, right up to him now arranging vol'jin assassination and using the sha to corrupt his own men into weapons to use against the alliance, Everything was leading to this.

    Garrosh is the kind of character who starts off aggressive but makes you believe he's on your side, but it builds and builds until he doesn't care who dies for his cause. He is Captain Ahab. He's that punk ass general from Avatar. He's that little bastard in the Green mile who tortured the prisoners. THATS his character.
    that is a perfect assessment.

  17. #17
    I still like Garrosh quite a lot. I think the Horde should be on the edge of being a bad guy faction, much more so than Alliance is, to keep things interesting. When the factions are identical in motive and good intentions it feels so stale, and makes me wonder why they even dislike each other. I think Garrosh needs to be more tolerant of his allies in the Horde, but I love his stance on the Alliance and war in general.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Hildefuns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    /raise hand

    Blizzard listened to the haters and ruined the most promising orc leader. Garrosh had so much potential in TBC, just like the whole game. The devs ruined him and the game.
    Oh come on..

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Xheoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I think any of you people who thought any good of Garrosh are extremely misguided or lack any sense of moral understanding when it comes to characters.

    If you want to like a character because he's a massive douchebag, fine, do so, but stop equating such a character into the theme of the horde and as if just because he's the warchief that it means he represents it. He doesn't, Garrosh doesn't represent jack shit what the horde is about.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 10:15 PM ----------

    I also find the fickle nature of the warcraft community just laughable in dicussions like this. Its all "oh man I loved him in cata but blizzard has so upended him like now and thats bad because he was not like this before". How can people be so out of touch with whats been happening in the story to have missed all the obvious points along the way.
    That's a bit harsh, don't you think?
    I'm pretty sure I've followed the Warcraft lore to pretty much every point in the story, be it in-game, novels and comic books. However, sadly, I have a different opinion than you. Who would've thought?

    You can see the direction Blizz wanted to take Garrosh in since Wrath. It was pretty stable during that time until the end of Cata. He made mistakes in Northrend and Im sure he was called on them. In Cata, like it was already mentioned in thie thread, he was outraged at the fact that one of his generals would kill innocents and was punished with death. Come Jaina's novel, Garrosh is, all of a sudden this evil warlord willing to kill the last of the blue dragonflight so he can nuke Theramore into oblivion (although, if I were him I wouldve just nuked Stormwind but whatever). So you have these two very different characters in the blink of an eye with the only thing that's really making them similar is the name and some background. Garrosh was great. Why he hated the Alliance so much, beats me, misguided hatred I guess. But it was fun. It's not the pinnacle of epic storytelling but it was a character with amazing potential. People just like to hop on the "ahmagerd terrible storytelling hurr durr" band wagon without seeing it as a form of entertainment. This community (or most of the gamer community in general) expects games to have this level of epic shakesperian quality writing and forget that it's all just supposed to be fun

  20. #20
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    /raise hand

    Blizzard listened to the haters and ruined the most promising orc leader. Garrosh had so much potential in TBC, just like the whole game. The devs ruined him and the game.
    Again, your poorly misguided. He didn't have potential like you think he did.

    Let me tell you the facts about what Garrosh was and what he was used for. Garrosh was a scapegoat, to fuel the faction war with the horde and alliance. He was not made to be a good leader, he was not made to represent something good or better in the horde. He was a tool for the story and little else.

    Why do you think now all the other factions are against him. Why do you think he's doing to be alone in the orgrimmar raid when both sides come at him?

    They did not 'ruin' him, he remained perfectly on course for what the story needed him to be, and now its time to clear his shit up.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

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