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  1. #1

    Does storm, earth, and fire increase single target dmg by 20%?

    tooltip says i lose 40% dmg and so does my clone. Now we are both individually doing 60% of regular dmg. but on single target if both u and your clone are dpsing then it comes out to 120% on single target.

    I read a blue post saying that they dont want it to be a dps increase on single target but on ptr i can't really tell if im doing more dmg(without recount or something) because all of the pet's dmg is orange which includes auto-attack and specials.

    I asked on ptr but no1 really knows. Anyone got a clue?
    Last edited by SuperomegaOP; 2013-01-23 at 05:28 AM.

  2. #2
    It's not supposed to copy abilities if you use them on the target that the spirit is on. I don't know if that's how it's working on the PTR (it's been quite buggy), but that's the design intent.

    Obviously it's not a DPS increase if you do 60% damage and then the spirit does nothing except autos at 60% damage.

  3. #3
    From what I understand about the spell, is that you can have 1 up per target (up to 2). If that is accurate then it would work out to a 20% increase on single target. From the wording in the tooltip (The spirits will attack their targets and mirror your damaging abilities. However, for each elemental spirit summoned the Monk's own damage will be reduced.) it makes me think that it will only be your abilities and not auto attack damage. If that's the case I would think it would still be an increase in damage, but not a full 20%.

  4. #4
    Right, They auto attack no matter what but they'll copy your abilities with their own dmg and such if you're attacking different targets. Currently there's a bug where the monks dmg isnt being cut.

  5. #5
    The Patient Jake5467's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geewhiz80 View Post
    From what I understand about the spell, is that you can have 1 up per target (up to 2). If that is accurate then it would work out to a 20% increase on single target. From the wording in the tooltip (The spirits will attack their targets and mirror your damaging abilities. However, for each elemental spirit summoned the Monk's own damage will be reduced.) it makes me think that it will only be your abilities and not auto attack damage. If that's the case I would think it would still be an increase in damage, but not a full 20%.
    Incorrect.

    It will not be single target gain. The spirits will NOT copy your specials on the same target you are attacking, only auto attack. So it's adding a cleave to your toolkit, no single target gain. That is it

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jake5467 View Post
    Incorrect.

    It will not be single target gain. The spirits will NOT copy your specials on the same target you are attacking, only auto attack. So it's adding a cleave to your toolkit, no single target gain. That is it
    Ah, thanks for clarification on that.

  7. #7
    I feel like I said that already...

  8. #8
    It will never be a Single target damage increase, unless your Auto-attack damage is over 80% of your Overall damage.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I feel like I said that already...
    yeah, you did.

    Right, They auto attack no matter what but they'll copy your abilities with their own dmg and such if you're attacking different targets. Currently there's a bug where the monks dmg isnt being cut.
    this bug was already fixed the same day the spell was released.

    I read a blue post saying that they dont want it to be a dps increase on single target but on ptr i can't really tell if im doing more dmg(without recount or something) because all of the pet's dmg is orange which includes auto-attack and specials.
    you can use recount and skada on the ptr...

  10. #10
    The main thing to remember with new abilities is, regardless of how it's actually implemented, always keep in mind the design intent. In this case, Blizzard have outright stated that SE&F is designed for cleaving, so that's what it will eventually do regardless of what it may or may not currently do on PTR. As such, it won't be a single target DPS increase by the time it goes live.

  11. #11
    OP here,

    I wish that this new and unique ability had more purposes for single target, like a new mechanic on how your dmg gets dealt or something maybe a 50/50 split on dmg or something cool for pvp(outside of arenas).

    Currently right now for duels its only used for kiting so u still deal dmg from ranged while getting on the target or if you are running away.

  12. #12
    All I can say is, it's just so nice how they input a pretty new ability, then make it so worthless for most bosses you might use it once a tier if lucky...

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xezar View Post
    All I can say is, it's just so nice how they input a pretty new ability, then make it so worthless for most bosses you might use it once a tier if lucky...
    Worthless? Say hello to Eagle Eye.
    "Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you." - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by xezar View Post
    All I can say is, it's just so nice how they input a pretty new ability, then make it so worthless for most bosses you might use it once a tier if lucky...
    it's not for bosses, it's for 2-3 mob packs (where spinning crane isn't worth it)

  15. #15
    The thing you got to remember is it is a ranged cleave and there are several fights this will be great on. Examples for normal modes atleast as I have not done heroic content:

    Sha of Fear -shield adds
    Elegon - can toss it on protector, and pillars
    Will of Emps - can put 2 clones on each boss while you deal w/ adds
    Stone guard - throw it on a doggie
    Imp Vizier - mind controled raiders
    Windlord - 3 of you spammin 3xSCK will be nuts
    Amber Shaper - clone on monstrosity and dps construct
    Empress - Phase 2 adds
    Garalon - put clone on body, have fun w/ legs

    If you ask me that is quite a few bosses this "useless" ability will be an improvement over our current mechanics. I'm sure the new raid content will have several bosses as well that this ability will help us with as well. Whats great about them is they are instant cast and automatically disappear after target dies so it is basically a fire and forget spell.

  16. #16
    So far from my own testing on PTR it seems like an overall dps DECREASE as it cuts your overall damage and relies heavily on your clones critting as well. I can really only see this as it is right now applied in a PvP scenario in a sense like a mage mirror image to slightly confuse the enemy. In theory it should be a 20% dps increase but the damage cut means you rely on your clones too much which are weak themselves. I downloaded skada on the PTR and ran with and without 2 clones open (which btw require 2 targets to be able to summon 2 clones as you can only summon one clone per target [may or may not be intended], clicking the ability again on the same target removes the aura thus removing your clone), overall single target dps is better without SE&F. I haven't testing AOE scenarios so I have no input on that.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Diagonal View View Post
    So far from my own testing on PTR it seems like an overall dps DECREASE as it cuts your overall damage and relies heavily on your clones critting as well. I can really only see this as it is right now applied in a PvP scenario in a sense like a mage mirror image to slightly confuse the enemy. In theory it should be a 20% dps increase but the damage cut means you rely on your clones too much which are weak themselves. I downloaded skada on the PTR and ran with and without 2 clones open (which btw require 2 targets to be able to summon 2 clones as you can only summon one clone per target [may or may not be intended], clicking the ability again on the same target removes the aura thus removing your clone), overall single target dps is better without SE&F. I haven't testing AOE scenarios so I have no input on that.
    It's not meant to be a DPS increase. It's meant to help us take down adds that aren't kept in close quarters, like, the above stated, Sha of Fear.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Diagonal View View Post
    So far from my own testing on PTR it seems like an overall dps DECREASE as it cuts your overall damage and relies heavily on your clones critting as well. I can really only see this as it is right now applied in a PvP scenario in a sense like a mage mirror image to slightly confuse the enemy. In theory it should be a 20% dps increase but the damage cut means you rely on your clones too much which are weak themselves. I downloaded skada on the PTR and ran with and without 2 clones open (which btw require 2 targets to be able to summon 2 clones as you can only summon one clone per target [may or may not be intended], clicking the ability again on the same target removes the aura thus removing your clone), overall single target dps is better without SE&F. I haven't testing AOE scenarios so I have no input on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    It's not meant to be a DPS increase. It's meant to help us take down adds that aren't kept in close quarters, like, the above stated, Sha of Fear.
    Both wrong. It is meant to be a DPS increase, but NOT on single target. That's working as intended.

    It's our cleave. As such, it's being designed to be a DPS increase on 2-3 targets, which it will be once the bugs are ironed out. This is because Windwalkers had a significant weakness in cleave fights: single target we're fine, AoE we're great. Cleave? Terrible. So in 5.2, any fights like Stone Guard, or any other fights with 2-3 targets that need to be DPSed, are where we'd use SE&F.

    Situational, yes. But it's direly needed. So essentially, in 5.2 here's what you do for the various situations:

    Single target: No SE&F, regular single target rotation
    2-3 targets: put up SE&F on the 1-2 extras, do regular single target rotation which will be copied to the extra targets
    4+ targets: AoE as always, with SCK. We may put up two SE&F clones assuming they'll SCK as well, as that should be a DPS increase. If they don't SCK, then don't bother.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by xezar View Post
    All I can say is, it's just so nice how they input a pretty new ability, then make it so worthless for most bosses you might use it once a tier if lucky...
    You'll use it on any fight with more than 1 target up at a time. Are you serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I feel like I said that already...
    Hurp. Its ok, you can have a cookie anyways.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperomegaOP View Post
    Currently right now for duels its only used for kiting so u still deal dmg from ranged while getting on the target or if you are running away.
    There's your problem. You're using it in a situation it isn't intended to be useful in.

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