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  1. #21
    Dreadlord Kyuubi87's Avatar
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    It's fair that SE&F is intended to be a cleave ability. We lack in the area, we hit hard single target so why make it work for single target dps only to have it nerfed in the end?

  2. #22
    So what will this spell be useful for in pvp?

    One would think that having a spirit beat on a mage while you're frozen is a good thing.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by XangXu View Post
    So what will this spell be useful for in pvp?

    One would think that having a spirit beat on a mage while you're frozen is a good thing.
    yeah, it'd make you able to put pressure on all three targets in a 3v3, albiet at a reduced-per-target-rate.

  4. #24
    I just am not sure how i'll be using this spell in battlegrounds... maybe just to chase a healer around, since i'm usually the only one targeting them. I guess.

  5. #25
    It may have its uses in PvP, but overall it's primarily a PvE thing I think. Which is ok: PvPers are gaining Nimble Brew and Ring of Peace, after all.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Both wrong. It is meant to be a DPS increase, but NOT on single target. That's working as intended.

    It's our cleave. As such, it's being designed to be a DPS increase on 2-3 targets, which it will be once the bugs are ironed out. This is because Windwalkers had a significant weakness in cleave fights: single target we're fine, AoE we're great. Cleave? Terrible. So in 5.2, any fights like Stone Guard, or any other fights with 2-3 targets that need to be DPSed, are where we'd use SE&F.

    Situational, yes. But it's direly needed. So essentially, in 5.2 here's what you do for the various situations:

    Single target: No SE&F, regular single target rotation
    2-3 targets: put up SE&F on the 1-2 extras, do regular single target rotation which will be copied to the extra targets
    4+ targets: AoE as always, with SCK. We may put up two SE&F clones assuming they'll SCK as well, as that should be a DPS increase. If they don't SCK, then don't bother.
    Before claiming a post is false please consider reading the post thoroughly. I said it's a single target DPS decrease. Also now that I have tested aoe as well it still is a decrease (when stacked). Even with RSK-->SCK the dps is slightly less than you by yourself. If they want to make it more viable the numbers need to be increased ever so slightly. I could see it surpassing only if the mobs are out of range of your own SCK where having 3 SCKs cover more area.

  7. #27
    Brewmaster Jess Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperomegaOP View Post
    OP here,

    I wish that this new and unique ability had more purposes for single target, like a new mechanic on how your dmg gets dealt or something maybe a 50/50 split on dmg or something cool for pvp(outside of arenas).

    Currently right now for duels its only used for kiting so u still deal dmg from ranged while getting on the target or if you are running away.
    I don't want it to do anything more than it's doing on PTR right now. It allows us to multi-target pressure in 3's at a decent rate, and it fills the gap in our arsenal for a cleave. It doesn't need to do anything single target, that's not what it's for. It's even sick in RBGS as you can stick a couple copies out and spam SCK near flags. No one's ninja capping with that going on.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Diagonal View View Post
    Before claiming a post is false please consider reading the post thoroughly. I said it's a single target DPS decrease. Also now that I have tested aoe as well it still is a decrease (when stacked). Even with RSK-->SCK the dps is slightly less than you by yourself. If they want to make it more viable the numbers need to be increased ever so slightly. I could see it surpassing only if the mobs are out of range of your own SCK where having 3 SCKs cover more area.
    If that's the case, then there's something wrong with the skill.

    If a spirit does 60% of your damage, and you do 60%, that's 120%. If it's not working out that way, then it's bugged. Blanket saying "it's a DPS decrease" without saying how or why that happens is really kind of pointless information since, as far as we know, it's supposed to be a DPS increase.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Diagonal View View Post
    Before claiming a post is false please consider reading the post thoroughly. I said it's a single target DPS decrease. Also now that I have tested aoe as well it still is a decrease (when stacked). Even with RSK-->SCK the dps is slightly less than you by yourself. If they want to make it more viable the numbers need to be increased ever so slightly. I could see it surpassing only if the mobs are out of range of your own SCK where having 3 SCKs cover more area.
    I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diagonal View View Post
    In theory it should be a 20% dps increase but the damage cut means you rely on your clones too much which are weak themselves.
    That's where you're wrong. It was never intended to be a single target increase in DPS, as stated by Ghostcrawler in that PTR set bonuses and class issues thread.

    Also as Totaltotemic says, if they're copying SCK then you should do more AoE DPS with 1 clone up (no point summoning 2, it adds up to 120% either way), due to the simple way the ability is designed. If you're not, then that sounds like a bug and should be reported to Blizzard. Until they outright state it's not meant to be an AoE boost so they're specifically designing it to not boost AoE damage, but as far as I'm aware we've had no such statements.

  10. #30
    i think in 3s with a dot lock could be a nice pressure on trible targets. we will see

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    That's where you're wrong. It was never intended to be a single target increase in DPS, as stated by Ghostcrawler in that PTR set bonuses and class issues thread.

    Also as Totaltotemic says, if they're copying SCK then you should do more AoE DPS with 1 clone up (no point summoning 2, it adds up to 120% either way), due to the simple way the ability is designed. If you're not, then that sounds like a bug and should be reported to Blizzard. Until they outright state it's not meant to be an AoE boost so they're specifically designing it to not boost AoE damage, but as far as I'm aware we've had no such statements.
    Actually, 3 are supposed to add up to 135%, according to GC. Might not be working currently, but keep that in mind.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Actually, 3 are supposed to add up to 135%, according to GC. Might not be working currently, but keep that in mind.
    Ooo, ok. I thought it was 40% x 3 = 120%, but I guess I'm using outdated info. Thanks!

  13. #33
    Your damage is at 54% or something like that with 2 of them up.

  14. #34
    45%. 3*45% = 135%.

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