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  1. #161
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katta View Post
    Again nice way to try and change my example. My example was to show that just because 1 server is full (when the game has 200 servers) doesnt mean that people are not leaving just because you dont notice it on that server.

    Again the top servers are also not even keeping at full so even they are losing people on them too.
    You say I don't want to see it. My desires have nothing to do with anything. I could care less if this game dies tomorrow. I'm a completely unbiased person in this conversation.

    I just don't prefer watching someone constantly make up data, like you just did, and say it correlates to something incorrectly. You just tried to disprove my point by making up numbers illogically. I don't need to change your example...it's not accurate even in theory. Do you see why people aren't listening to you? You have no factual information other than a wrong interpretation of incomplete data. Get angry all you want. I'm not here trying to white knight a game that causes bile to rise in my throat, but I'm not going to just make up bullshit and talk about half truths.
    BAD WOLF

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    You say I don't want to see it. My desires have nothing to do with anything. I could care less if this game dies tomorrow. I'm a completely unbiased person in this conversation.

    I just don't prefer watching someone constantly make up data, like you just did, and say it correlates to something incorrectly. You just tried to disprove my point by making up numbers illogically. I don't need to change your example...it's not accurate even in theory. Do you see why people aren't listening to you? You have no factual information other than a wrong interpretation of incomplete data. Get angry all you want. I'm not here trying to white knight a game that causes bile to rise in my throat, but I'm not going to just make up bullshit and talk about half truths.
    See there again its a wrong interpertaion of incomplete data. No its not.

    The data is not incomplete. It shows server status of all the servers at all points of the day on every day. All I have done is use those charts to tell that the servers have less people logging on. Therefor meaning less people logging into the game.

    Your backing up people that are giving no evidence that the population is steady but only their own observations. I am using data thats collected basically from the game itself. No SWTOR doesnt support TORSTATUS but I dont see any indication that TORSTATUS has in any way tried to make SWTOR look bad that could not be taken from the site itself. They are just logging the data so everyone can see it.

    If you want to discredit that site then how about show some problems with the way they do their data. Its funny people will believe a known and proven liar in Bioware. How many times have they lied in the last year? Also is it still lying even when they say they are going in another direction.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by katta View Post
    See there again its a wrong interpertaion of incomplete data. No its not.

    The data is not incomplete. It shows server status of all the servers at all points of the day on every day. All I have done is use those charts to tell that the servers have less people logging on. Therefor meaning less people logging into the game.
    There can be two other reasons for this that does not mean that the total number of players are dropping.

    1. There are still as many people playing now as it was when F2P was released but now they are not playing as many hours/day.
    A simplified example just to illustrate what I mean is that before 20000 people were online between 6pm and 10pm and the server status where Full. But now they are not online as much so instead 10000 people are online between 6pm and 8pm and the other 10000 players are online between 8pm and 10pm. The server status only show Medium even though there are still the same amount of total players.

    2. Bioware may have raised the population limits on the servers. So if a Full server previusly meant 20000 players it may be that now 20000 players mean Heavy and you need 25000 players to get Full status. So you still have the same amount of players but the status mean a different thing now compared to before.

    I'm not saying with certainty that this is what has happened but it is a possibility and we can only speculate until we get the facts from Bioware with real data on how many players they have.

    For my own anecdotal evidence I can say that I have not noticed a dropoff in population since the game was released as F2P on my server (The Red Eclipse EU).

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Aroa View Post
    2. Bioware may have raised the population limits on the servers. So if a Full server previusly meant 20000 players it may be that now 20000 players mean Heavy and you need 25000 players to get Full status. So you still have the same amount of players but the status mean a different thing now compared to before.
    that is more then true, they even stated themselfes that they rewrite the code for different instances and many code which causes server interactions are severely trimmed down, thus reduced overall server load and was the requirement for both waves of palyer transitions. Not only because player left the game, the servers now can handle a shitload more of people...

    Wildstar Black Ops - loved by strangers

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Aroa View Post
    There can be two other reasons for this that does not mean that the total number of players are dropping.

    1. There are still as many people playing now as it was when F2P was released but now they are not playing as many hours/day.
    A simplified example just to illustrate what I mean is that before 20000 people were online between 6pm and 10pm and the server status where Full. But now they are not online as much so instead 10000 people are online between 6pm and 8pm and the other 10000 players are online between 8pm and 10pm. The server status only show Medium even though there are still the same amount of total players.

    2. Bioware may have raised the population limits on the servers. So if a Full server previusly meant 20000 players it may be that now 20000 players mean Heavy and you need 25000 players to get Full status. So you still have the same amount of players but the status mean a different thing now compared to before.

    I'm not saying with certainty that this is what has happened but it is a possibility and we can only speculate until we get the facts from Bioware with real data on how many players they have.

    For my own anecdotal evidence I can say that I have not noticed a dropoff in population since the game was released as F2P on my server (The Red Eclipse EU).
    Go away! This is not the place for your sound reasoning.

    And to add some useless anecdotal evidence: recently when helping a guildie with a H4, I arrived in Nar Shaddaa (4); never seen four instances of anything but fleet and capital before.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Aroa View Post
    There can be two other reasons for this that does not mean that the total number of players are dropping.

    1. There are still as many people playing now as it was when F2P was released but now they are not playing as many hours/day.
    A simplified example just to illustrate what I mean is that before 20000 people were online between 6pm and 10pm and the server status where Full. But now they are not online as much so instead 10000 people are online between 6pm and 8pm and the other 10000 players are online between 8pm and 10pm. The server status only show Medium even though there are still the same amount of total players.

    2. Bioware may have raised the population limits on the servers. So if a Full server previusly meant 20000 players it may be that now 20000 players mean Heavy and you need 25000 players to get Full status. So you still have the same amount of players but the status mean a different thing now compared to before.

    I'm not saying with certainty that this is what has happened but it is a possibility and we can only speculate until we get the facts from Bioware with real data on how many players they have.

    For my own anecdotal evidence I can say that I have not noticed a dropoff in population since the game was released as F2P on my server (The Red Eclipse EU).
    1. It is possible but extremely unlikely that is the case. The same thing happened at launch and bioware announced that there was a large drop in players. I would believe that that has also happened now since it has happened already.

    2. This has about a .000000000000000001% chance that they did this. Nothing can be used to prove that they did this and is just an excuse (used many times by players before) to make up a reason for the servers status lowering. If they were to increase the cap you would have seen a large drop off at a given time and nowhere has this been seen. If you dont know what I am talking about then just look at the servers when they merged them and when they introduced F2P. If you increase the server caps you will see a large sharp dropoff in server status and not a gradual decrease. The opposite happened when the merged the servers (when they merged the servers it was like they were decreasing the cap) When you take 20 servers and combine them all into one you get a sharp increase in the server status being you added all those addition people at one time. This is show in TORSTATUS also as it was predictable. A server cap increase would show a sharp server decrease which would be expected but was never seen so you cannot have a logical reason to say they did that. The only way they could have increased the server caps and it not be noticable is if they did it gradually every day/week and in small amount. But this would have had to been done perfectly for it not to have been noticed.

    On the other hand they is more proof to show that they have decreased the caps.(though also highly unlikely but there are few cased when small errors could point to it). But that I mean look at TORSTATUS and there is one server (the bastion) that this week that had a spike from standard to full and back down to standard. This could be them lowering the server status caps and making an error when changing the numbers. If you are playing with the numbers and accedently put in a 2000 for the cap instead of 20000 that would put the server at full already, then after you wwould realize this you would go back in and correct it and it would drop back down to standard.

    3. Now the" no one knows until Bioware tells us (Which they will not do)" This is the final back up to when you have nothing. Well only Bioware knows and everything else is just speculation (even though its off of collected unbias data from data that SWTOR provides) They will never give a hard number but instead a number that is misleading.

    4. Are you saying in game you cant tell the difference between heavy and full(with Q)?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 07:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Go away! This is not the place for your sound reasoning.

    And to add some useless anecdotal evidence: recently when helping a guildie with a H4, I arrived in Nar Shaddaa (4); never seen four instances of anything but fleet and capital before.
    That doesnt mean that Nar Shaddaa had 3 full instances with another one added. I logged in a while ago and when I was on corsecant i did a /who (repeated it each time to get around the bug it still has) and there where 132 people on the planet and it also had someone in the 4th instance(only 1 person) it also had about 10 people in the 2nd and 40 in the 3rd and the rest in the 1st. But there was no button to allow you to switch instanced because there was actually only 1.

    Next time you see a place with 3-4 instances do a /who for each instance and see if there are actually that many people in each one.

    Its probable just another bug in the game that they will never fix.
    Last edited by katta; 2013-02-08 at 12:46 PM.

  7. #167
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    And to add some useless anecdotal evidence: recently when helping a guildie with a H4, I arrived in Nar Shaddaa (4); never seen four instances of anything but fleet and capital before.
    I saw 4 instances of Taris last week. Agreed, I usually only notice it happening on the Fleet or Capital world but Taris was very busy. The Red Eclipse has been beautifully stable and busy for months. Long may it continue.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  8. #168
    All of katta's "data" is anectodal. Just like leveling from 1-17 at launch in 3 hours. Everything katta says can, and most definitely should, be taken with a grain of salt. I love this though.

    Quote Originally Posted by katta View Post
    This has about a .000000000000000001% chance that they did this.
    In katta's world, that is "factual evidence".

    I'm with the thought process that they raised server caps. It makes more sense, especially with merging a couple more US servers right around F2P launch despite the fact that any company would be preparing for a large influx of players as opposed to a mass exodus. But that's just logic speaking so katta will likely ignore it.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    All of katta's "data" is anectodal. Just like leveling from 1-17 at launch in 3 hours. Everything katta says can, and most definitely should, be taken with a grain of salt. I love this though.



    In katta's world, that is "factual evidence".

    I'm with the thought process that they raised server caps. It makes more sense, especially with merging a couple more US servers right around F2P launch despite the fact that any company would be preparing for a large influx of players as opposed to a mass exodus. But that's just logic speaking so katta will likely ignore it.
    We are not talking about them raising the cap when they launched F2P (I dont think they raised them that much then but thats a different story). We are talking about if they have continually raised the cap after F2p when the servers started getting lower and lower. And them raising it over and over after F2P being the reason that the servers only hit heavy now for the most part, compared to full when they launched F2P.

  10. #170
    Bloodsail Admiral ranku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose19 View Post
    WoW and hard in one sentence will always be sarcasm unless they talk about that 0.1% of content, you know that end boss on heroic (if you haven't killed it apparently you can't call the game easy).
    you do remember that there is a such thing as new players right? to those who can't play very often or know about sites like these it can take years to get from 1-90 (it took me from late begining of bc to toc just to get my first max level character, and i only leveled one person period.)
    Quote Originally Posted by ohshift View Post
    Mess with someone's head enough, you can turn a scared little kid into an all powerful bitch.
    only two things are infinite the universe, and human stupidity,
    and i'm not too sure about the universe -Albert Einstein

  11. #171
    Red Eclipse is strong with people! 12 instances of Dromund Kaas? O__O 120+ people each...

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by katta View Post
    We are not talking about them raising the cap when they launched F2P (I dont think they raised them that much then but thats a different story). We are talking about if they have continually raised the cap after F2p when the servers started getting lower and lower. And them raising it over and over after F2P being the reason that the servers only hit heavy now for the most part, compared to full when they launched F2P.
    Doesn't change the fact that the possibility isn't out of the question. They see Full, they say "Let's raise caps again, we're getting a ton of people in". Or, the servers hit Full from people trying out the game at F2P and some of those people have stopped playing because they don't like the game. Either is possible and neither can be eliminated with any form of certainty. Also, TORstatus is unreliable, at best. Purely because they don't take into account any tweaking of server population caps. The incomplete nature of their data makes it inaccurate. Argue against it all you want, but it's true. All they do is assign a number value to the level at which the server says it is. If Heavy is 1,000 people today and then 1,000 people becomes Standard tomorrow, they won't know and will misinterpret exactly what the numbers truly are.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that the possibility isn't out of the question. They see Full, they say "Let's raise caps again, we're getting a ton of people in". Or, the servers hit Full from people trying out the game at F2P and some of those people have stopped playing because they don't like the game. Either is possible and neither can be eliminated with any form of certainty. Also, TORstatus is unreliable, at best. Purely because they don't take into account any tweaking of server population caps. The incomplete nature of their data makes it inaccurate. Argue against it all you want, but it's true. All they do is assign a number value to the level at which the server says it is. If Heavy is 1,000 people today and then 1,000 people becomes Standard tomorrow, they won't know and will misinterpret exactly what the numbers truly are.
    The possibility is there but there is nothing to show for it. You say they might see the servers full so they raise the cap. (well can you also say they might lower the cap when they see they are too low?).

    Also I dont see why they would spend the time raising the cap so often and not just raising it in large chucks if they were to do it.

    Torstatus just shows server status and yes that sight would not adjust for any change in values made by SWTOR. But it would show signs that something has changed. A slow gradual decline does not fit with them raising the server caps. If they did then there would be bumps in Torstatus data for when it was changed.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by katta View Post
    The possibility is there but there is nothing to show for it. You say they might see the servers full so they raise the cap. (well can you also say they might lower the cap when they see they are too low?).

    Also I dont see why they would spend the time raising the cap so often and not just raising it in large chucks if they were to do it.

    Torstatus just shows server status and yes that sight would not adjust for any change in values made by SWTOR. But it would show signs that something has changed. A slow gradual decline does not fit with them raising the server caps. If they did then there would be bumps in Torstatus data for when it was changed.
    Either can be said, neither can be proven, therefore it's all speculation. Same thing goes for TORstatus. Unless you're constantly checking their page, I don't see a way to compare where it is now and where it was 2 months ago. Even then, why would you bother even going through the time necessary to do such research? Also, the number value assigned for each is a value of 1. You wouldn't see a "sharp decrease" or "sharp increase" if it went from "Very Heavy" to "Heavy" or "Full" to "Very Heavy".

    Honestly, I don't even know why I'm arguing this point. It doesn't matter and I don't even really care. I can't figure out why you care either except to do what? Bash the game? Bash the company? Go on to something else already. Shit, I don't even play the game so I couldn't care less one way or another. I'm just kinda finding your incessant need to bash the game to be borderline pathetic.

  15. #175
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katta View Post
    Also I dont see why they would spend the time raising the cap so often and not just raising it in large chucks if they were to do it.
    Because it makes more sense to have several small adjustments that can be handled better rather than a huge mistake, doing something in excess, and crashing their servers.
    BAD WOLF

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