1. #1

    (All) Explain it like I'm five: Chi Brew

    There's been a lot of math debates ever since MoP's launch about Chi Brew and how much it is "worth" in terms of resources, normally for comparison with Ascension. I'm here to put an end to it, to make the definitive resource for Chi Brew calculations for all specs so that we can stop arguing for what the right answer is and simply have it on display.

    To define Chi Brew's worth, we have to define what "worth" is. It is the idea that I can spend and amount of thing A and get an amount of thing B. That means that thing B with "worth" however much of thing A I need to spend to get one of those. For every Monk spec, Chi is "thing B", and we spend "thing A" to get it, whether that's Energy or Mana. Chi Brew gives 4 Chi every 90 seconds, so let's see what this means.

    Brewmaster:

    To get Chi, we Jab.
    Jab costs 40 Energy and awards 1 Chi.
    This makes 1 Chi worth 40 Energy. (And a GCD!)
    Therefore, 4 Chi is worth 160 Energy.
    160 Energy every 90 seconds is 1.78 Energy/second
    Therefore, Chi Brew (if used on cooldown) is worth 1.78 Energy/second and 4 GCDs every 90 seconds.

    Windwalker:

    To get Chi, we Jab.
    Jab costs 40 Energy and awards 2 Chi.
    This makes 1 Chi worth 20 Energy. (And half a GCD!)
    Therefore, 4 Chi is worth 80 Energy.
    80 Energy every 90 seconds is 0.889 Energy/second
    Therefore, Chi Brew (if used on cooldown) is worth 0.889 Energy/second and 2 GCDs every 90 seconds.

    Mistweaver:

    This is a bit more complicated because mana isn't as clear-cut and unlimited as Energy.

    To get Chi, we Jab.
    Jab costs 9,000 Mana and awards 1 Chi
    This makes 1 Chi worth 9,000 mana. (And a GCD!)
    Therefore, 4 Chi is worth 36,000 mana.
    36,000 Mana every 90 seconds is 400 mana per second, or 2,000 mp5.
    Therefore, Chi Brew (if used on cooldown) is worth 2,000 mp5 and 4 GCDs every 90 seconds*


    I hope this can clear up a lot of misconceptions or just plain mathematical error, it gets kind of old having to explain it again every time the subject comes up.


    *Chi Brew is slightly more complicated than that due to the Mana/Chi/Mana Tea/Mana feedback loop and the fact that we're not always trying to maximize Chi from Mana like Brewmaster/Windwalker. For more in-depth explanation, see this post with all of the numbers and different possibilities.

  2. #2
    The Patient konaman's Avatar
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    For BrM I think you would have to take into account chi generated by Keg Smash which is 2 Chi for 40 energy every 8 seconds.

    EDIT

    EJ has a post comparing the three talents and for BrM Chi brew is always behind in Chi generation. On top of that I can't think of a time where I would instantly need 4 Chi, and I even if I did need it I usually have at least 1 Chi, so I would only gain 3 Chi from Chi brew.
    Last edited by konaman; 2013-01-23 at 05:24 PM.

  3. #3
    I get 1.92~ energy regen from ascension as brewmaster... If Chi brew only gives 1.78 then it's clearly inferior.

    Edit

    If Power Strikes is 1 chi per 20 seconds, then you could say that it's equivalent to 2 energy regen per second (you don't get to spend the energy on another expel harm or jab but, you get the chi for 1 less extra GCD in comparison)
    Last edited by Yohassakura; 2013-01-23 at 06:24 PM.
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  4. #4
    Chi brew gives you the Chi now. That's also worth something.

    And Mistweavers gain Chi from other actions than Jab, as well. In addition to that, none of these does nothing except generate Chi, unlike Chi Brew.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Chi brew gives you the Chi now. That's also worth something.

    And Mistweavers gain Chi from other actions than Jab, as well. In addition to that, none of these does nothing except generate Chi, unlike Chi Brew.
    Our cheapest form of Chi generation outside CB is EH which is 7.5k on a 15 second cooldown. Obviously it can't be used for these calculations as it isn't spammable. Soothing Mist on average gives you one chi per ~9.5k mana. Jab gives you one Chi per 9k mana. All of them do something extra as well; EH heals you for around 100k and hits a target for about 50k damage, Soothing obviously heals your target and Jab gives a tiny amount of extra healing with Eminence.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by konaman View Post
    For BrM I think you would have to take into account chi generated by Keg Smash which is 2 Chi for 40 energy every 8 seconds.

    EDIT

    EJ has a post comparing the three talents and for BrM Chi brew is always behind in Chi generation. On top of that I can't think of a time where I would instantly need 4 Chi, and I even if I did need it I usually have at least 1 Chi, so I would only gain 3 Chi from Chi brew.
    No need to complicate matters. You Keg Smash on CD all the time anyways, it's extremely efficient and has a cooldown, so it's not a good measurement of how much one Chi is "worth." As I said, the difference is what you can spend to get that. If you're using Keg Smash on CD, you can't just start using it more to get that same Chi price. The same is true for Mistweaver Expel Harm, and the fact that all of their other Chi builders do things other than just give Chi.

  7. #7
    You have to take into account fight length because you get the first chi brew right at the start and then one more every 90 seconds. In a 120 second fight for example you get 8 chi out of chi brew or 2.67 energy/second. As fights get longer, the benefit you get from Chi Brew also becomes smaller.

    Personally I only really run Chi Brew in pvp where it's very effective for burst, as you can do RSK and 3 blackout kicks without having to jab in between.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by paraalso View Post
    You have to take into account fight length because you get the first chi brew right at the start and then one more every 90 seconds. In a 120 second fight for example you get 8 chi out of chi brew or 2.67 energy/second. As fights get longer, the benefit you get from Chi Brew also becomes smaller.

    Personally I only really run Chi Brew in pvp where it's very effective for burst, as you can do RSK and 3 blackout kicks without having to jab in between.
    Yes, that's true that the fact that it doesn't start on cooldown does vary the end result a bit. I don't really PvP much so this was made mostly from a PvE standpoint (hence the focus on long-term gains), but obviously I haven't exhausted all of the possibilities or even started to compare it with Ascension and Power Strikes, but I feel like it's a good reference for a starting point on any one particular debate so you can skip to the less-mathy points of the debate without arguing over semantics.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Also take into account that sometimes Chi Brew will come off cooldown when you still have some stored Chi, in which case you either delay using it or end up wasting some of CB's potential Chi.
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