Lfr10n

[Zenjie]

5.2

LFR for 10 man normal of the older tier raids added.
(Mogu'shan Vaults, Terrace of Endless Spring and Heart of Fear)
We are aware that there are players that doesn't have the strict schedules to play Higher difficulty raids. And there are players that doesn't want to leave their friends/social guilds to raid at higher difficulty.

Therefore, we have added the LFR10N, Looking for Raid for 10 normal Raid for the older raids. The loots remain same, but the amount of the valor that you will get on the completion of raid is huge. You will need to be level 90 with a minimum item level of 483.
You won't be able to use this function for Isle of the Thunder King raids.

With this, we hope to make players that stayed loyal to us since the beginning of Vanilla WoW till now, happy. We are aware that these veteran players have grow old and started to have full time job, families etc. We hope this function, they will have time to enjoy these raids on the true difficulty.

......

Nah, just kidding.

But that is one thing that would make me definitely come back. Me, when I started to play Vanilla WoW I was like 15 year old. The time that i had, was massive. I raided with so much enjoyment that Blackwing Lair with 40 man.
But 10 years later, I miss the focus/concentration feeling to overcome the raids. And I don't have massive free time like when I was 15 year old. And I don't want to leave my friends guild.
LFR is not giving me what I want. I don't want to be tourist see the content. I want to be adventurer and fighter to see the content.

[Hunty]

LFR is not giving me what I want. I don't want to be tourist see the content. I want to be adventurer and fighter to see the content.

You may have worded yourself badly then, considering if the requirements are lvl 85 and ilvl 382 it'll be soloable. I mean, you cant enter them alone, but technically. What I think you *might* mean is a LFR at normal mode difficulty, which is most commonly known as a Pick Up Group (PUG).

[shise]

Join a raiding guild.. plain simple... tehre are tones of casual guilds now..

[Zenjie]

You may have worded yourself badly then, considering if the requirements are lvl 85 and ilvl 382 it'll be soloable. I mean, you cant enter them alone, but technically. What I think you *might* mean is a LFR at normal mode difficulty, which is most commonly known as a Pick Up Group (PUG).

Thanks for pointing that out, I meant lvl 90 and 483 ilvl. Edited.
No, I dont mean the PUG. I meant LFR for 10 man normal difficulty. One click, you are queued up and you enter the raid. Then you can start playing the true difficulty.

[vinnyboombat]

Status Quo in LFR is to ignore 90% of the mechanics. That would never work in a LFR Normal. Everyone that runs current LFR would try running LFR Normal and it would be a complete and utter mess.

Join a guild for Normal content, or learn to tolerate the current LFR and it's lower playing requirements.

[Deleted]

Thanks for pointing that out, I meant lvl 90 and 483 ilvl. Edited.
No, I dont mean the PUG. I meant LFR for 10 man normal difficulty. One click, you are queued up and you enter the raid. Then you can start playing the true difficulty.

Realistically how successful do you think these groups would be? Assuming you've experienced current tier LFR you'll be aware at how poorly some people grasp mechanics, this is overcome in LFR by making them non-deadly. In normal mode the fights are significantly harder than LFR, certainly a completely uncoordinated group thrown together by the queue system would likely see very limited success.

[Gurbz]

Status Quo in LFR is to ignore 90% of the mechanics. That would never work in a LFR Normal. Everyone that runs current LFR would try running LFR Normal and it would be a complete and utter mess.

Pretty much this. A truly random group, especially with how most people run LFR now, does not and likely will never have the coordination, communication, and skill required to overcome normal raids. Even tradechat PuGs have at least some level of group cohesion that would not exist in an LFR type environment. That is exactly why the current LFR is tuned to be so simple. The success rate would drop dramatically if it were not faceroll easy.

I'm in the same place as you in regards to available playing time. And while I understand your motivation completely, the solution you propose will not provide what you are looking for.

[Zenjie]

Pretty much this. A truly random group, especially with how most people run LFR now, does not and likely will never have the coordination, communication, and skill required to overcome normal raids. Even tradechat PuGs have at least some level of group cohesion that would not exist in an LFR type environment. That is exactly why the current LFR is tuned to be so simple. The success rate would drop dramatically if it were not faceroll easy.

I'm in the same place as you in regards to available playing time. And while I understand your motivation completely, the solution you propose will not provide what you are looking for.

Glad that I am not alone here.
Yeah, i get your point. But LFR is 25 man, the big is that SO big that its hard to coordinate. But when it is 10 man, I kinda have faith in it.
But why dont you come with the other idea that might make the LFR10N work?

What about, set ilvl requirements higher, or even, the completion of all Challenge Modes in "Silver", that will make you able to enter that raid.
Then we will surely be grouped with only good players that have skill.

[Hunty]

Glad that I am not alone here.
Yeah, i get your point. But LFR is 25 man, the big is that SO big that its hard to coordinate. But when it is 10 man, I kinda have faith in it.
But why dont you come with the other idea that might make the LFR10N work?

What about, set ilvl requirements higher, or even, the completion of all Challenge Modes in "Silver", that will make you able to enter that raid.
Then we will surely be grouped with only good players that have skill.

Nice thing about LFR is that it allowed Blizzard to make normal mode harder. While essentially I like the Challenge Mode idea, I can already hear the ''Challenge Modes are mandatory!" rage incoming. Ilvl requirement is pointless, getting loot has nothing to do with skill.

[Gurbz]

But why dont you come with the other idea that might make the LFR10N work?

Mostly because I ultimately don't think it can.

Even with a 10-man, the difficulty would be far to high for an LFR-style PuG. Maybe it would not instantly implode after the first wipe like a 25-man would, but I do not see it being successful without spending significant amounts of time on each fight. Which most people queuing for an LFR would not be willing to do. The raid would either collapse completely after a number of wipes or would simply be unable to progress as people leave and are replaced by new players, who may or may not need to be caught up on the fight strategy the group is using.

Also, there is a reason that the current LFR is a 25-man, as Blizzard has explained when asked why we do not have a 10-man version of LFR already. Queue times. Reduce the group size to a 10-man and the queue time will go up dramatically. Especially for DPS, who would likely be looking at 2 hours or more. Wait times for tanks would probably drop. Healers would stay roughly the same, but slightly longer.

The queue time issue would be exponentially multiplied if you start putting restrictions/requirements on who can queue in the first place. This makes things like a very high iLvl requirement or something similar like Challenge Modes into an untenable solution.

Honestly, the best solution to your issue is to find a guild that you can raid with on your schedule. This may require something as drastic as a faction and/or server change. Yes, it can take some time, and will require some effort on your part. And you may not be able to find a guild that both fits your schedule and has a level of progression that you want. Or, if your schedule and availability changes too often to allow for organized raiding on set days, as is my situation, then you may not be able to find what you want at all. At that point it comes down to prioritizing. I've known people with families and full-time jobs that kept up a 3 day a week, 4 hour a night raiding schedule. It is not easy, and depends on specific details of your situation, but it can be done.