Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes

[Naquada]

Well, atleast it's something for the 25's.

[kritor]

I thought the Thunderforge stuff was supposed to be Blacksmithing based? Or at least that's what the patch notes said the other day.

[Deleted]

Hello, my name is migas11, my warlockian nickname is Azgraal, i am a 10man raider, been one for years, and i agree with these changes with all my heart.

It doesn't hurt 10man groups, and has a little change of rewarding 25man groups. I am happy.

It only hurts in the sense that you and I, who both raid 10 man, can now officially call ourselves second class raiders (as opposed to first class raiders, who raid 25 man).
I'm butt hurt and me and the other officers will be discussing pros and cons of merging after the raid tonight.

[Lilija]

Unfortunatly, it won't stop the decline of 25 man raids.

[Jokerfiend]

This can only help people just looking to progress in the Tier. Thunderforged should be something as a treat and not expected. Yet, people, like some in this threa,d only see it now as ANOTHER thing they have to get. You people are never happy and never will be.

[Geekissexy]

I don't think this is going to be enough to stop the decline of 25 man raids, I think it's just to keep some the ones that are still going happy.

[shoju]

look, it's the TOC syndrome all over again, but this time with an added element of randomness. Yes. more ilvl variations is surely the answer.

[Lyrax]

This is a woeful idea... As a 10 man raider who enjoys 10 man solely because of the small group, and you get to know everyone better, I feel its unfair to differentiate between 25 and 10 man as almost different difficulties. 25 man is more complex yes, but 10 man still is challenging, and if you lose a player its a wipe pretty much, which is unlike 25 man. Tbh, I dnt think its fair if 25 man get an increased droprate on these new higher ilvl drops, as it means 25 man guilds will down the raid quicker overall than 10 man groups, even whenever we're doing the exact same boss, with the exact same mechanic, only increased HP on boss and adds. Seems as if they're trying to fix something which isn't broken, which is always a trend from wut i've seen that blizzard like to do

[hanabi12]

I'm against this change.. You should be playing 25 man because you like playing with 24 other players instead of 9, that is your own effing decision. You should not care about 10 man when you do 25 man, its about you, your fellow guildies and the game. NOT about you and other irrelevant players who, according to you, dont deserve certain kind of items.

I fucking hate whiny bitches, die in a hellfire pl0x :')

Looks like the only special olympic candidate complaining is you. 25 man is more important than 10 man, and now we will get even better loot than you at a higher rate, how does that make you and your awful guild feel? Oh and there's nothing you can do about it, and we won't die in a hellfire because hell doesn't exist Enjoy nerd raging

[rogas]

Thank god they gonna try to save 25man raiding! Cheers for that !

[Razecog]

I am Razecog and I am a 10 man raider which approves of this change.

[kaamila]

this feels like in ds where if you were in a 25man guild, mostly everyone had their random drop bis trinket whereas 10man youd be lucky to have 1-2 drop in the entire tier(didnt get my cunning until 6 months after we had 8/8H on farm.) im not bothered that much by this since 25mans have always been more geared than 10mans, this just means theyll be more geared, but at least we can eventually get the same items over time.

[Deleted]

I would really like to know how this will help the "dying" 25man bracket? The reward shouldnt be in something rng but something that you achieve with time and only award those who run the show. This will imo only result in never ending farming of the raid tier... no rest after everyone has gotten full bis as you probably never reach that point with another rng factor.

[Marooned]

I feel better rewards for 25 man is coming in future, they just don't want sudden changes, they'll adjust the rewards/loot/achieves progressively over time on future releases. Although I feel this alone is also a nice change.

[Venant]

Biggest issue i see with this in terms of progression raiding guilds:

A lot of hardcore progression raiders (myself included) enjoy eventually getting their full BiS set at some point during that tier (sometimes on multiple characters). Once your full BiS is achieved (along with most of your other guildies) it allows you to take a break from raiding and still be ready at the best possible advantage for the next tier of content (every previous piece of gear from a tier matters when going for top world/region/server rankings). With this implementation it is VERY VERY VERY unlikely for even ONE person (minus maybe a tank) to ever reach a full BiS set now. Under the assumption a full BiS set would be your best itemized pieces thunderforged. I feel top guilds are going to feel it necessary to raid every single week (probably multiple 25 mans) from the start of one tier until the start of the other because there is ALWAYS going to be that possible thunderforged upgrade for them off a boss. Which could result in a MASSIVE burn out of top tier players because they don't get the break in between tiers that they are used to.

Is this any different from having to kill H LK for months so that everyone in the raid can get the mount? The argument that you are going to make the hardest of the hardcore raiders burn out because you make them... raid, is somewhat silly. Apparently you also make hardcore raiders burn out if you make a tier last too long or be too challenging, because then you just have top end guilds raiding like maniacs for weeks on end like in tier 11. I think that when you decide to be a hardcore raider you know what you are signing up for.

[Chief Brouhaha]

This is perfect in my opinion! Congrats bliz on coming up with a good idea for how to handle the situation!

[Gaman]

This is a woeful idea... As a 10 man raider who enjoys 10 man solely because of the small group, and you get to know everyone better, I feel its unfair to differentiate between 25 and 10 man as almost different difficulties. 25 man is more complex yes, but 10 man still is challenging, and if you lose a player its a wipe pretty much, which is unlike 25 man. Tbh, I dnt think its fair if 25 man get an increased droprate on these new higher ilvl drops, as it means 25 man guilds will down the raid quicker overall than 10 man groups, even whenever we're doing the exact same boss, with the exact same mechanic, only increased HP on boss and adds. Seems as if they're trying to fix something which isn't broken, which is always a trend from wut i've seen that blizzard like to do

Hate to break it to you mate, but life is not fair.


I think its a good change, wont see 90% of raiders in complete BiS at the end of a tier/expansion that lasted a bit too fucking long (DS)

All in all they should just change it to a 15man in general, will fuck both over, but atleast the constant whining will stop.

[phyx]

Well, at least it's something but doesn't really solve the problem.

It's not about rewarding existing 25man guilds, it's about making a change that will sprung 25man raiding again without 10man bitching all around. This change won't do anything to anyone and 25man will keep dying.
Also I love how every time they use "logistical effort" as the only distincion.

[Crummy]

Well there you go.
I'm still sticking to 10man since that's where it's at for me.

[Pasture]

From a 'loot bidding' perspective this is horrible. You have your normal gear and you're starting work on heroics. Do you want to use your loot position on the 'Thunderforged' when you're working toward heroic loot and miss our on heroic quality?

I understand the reasoning and from and as a 10 man player it doesn't bother me 25 mans have a greater drop chance. I just think the various ilevels are going to make loot bidding clunky and see these new items wind up wasted.