Wont be long before they change the lockouts to be separate aswell. That will get me get back to the game
Wont be long before they change the lockouts to be separate aswell. That will get me get back to the game
So 25man gets not only much more gear than 10man .... which equals getting much more Thunderforged ... no ... they get even more Thunderforged? NICE!
Does Blizzard even realise, that 25 man is not any harder than 10? its harder to organise ... but easier to clear ...
10 men means 2 healers. less people = moar rng = 1 healer in the construct the other stunned = construct on the mage or shaman = goodbye bl on last phase.Ambershaper This is fight is probably the same on 10 and 25, constructs are the same, monstrosity has less life so stacking the debuff is easier, also explosions mean less people to top off.
2 people get visions. Get your facts straight before talking about what you don't know shit. Adds need to get prisoned because if you have only an adds phase it means you have 3 healers and you can't heal phase 3 with adds going on shit on the tanks with their posion breath.Shekzeer. Only 1 person gets visions in 10man, I don't see how that makes it harder, with only one person to dispel, losing people being feared out is not that big of an issue. Also ads don't even need to be prisoned because of their low total health, they can actually be tanked next to shekzeer since there is only one ad phase
Protector is easier in heroic in 25, the boss do the same casts and you have more interrupts. World firts blood legion did it with their frapser dpsing the wrong target for over a minute. You can't even possible think about doing this in 10 men.Protectors is not harder, its on par for elite and normal.
Tier gear won't get a boost though? Seems weird that there could be situations where 0pc may end up being an increase if all the items are Thunderforged.
The best thing Blizzard did in years. 25 m raiding was almost extinguished on majority realms. People who wanted to raid 25m were forced to migrate to these few top pve realms like Twisting Nether, Kazzak, Sylvannas to get proper chance to raid format they like. This created additional imbalance on server population, creating too high or low populated realm as people migrated inside-out. Downgrading from 25m guild to 10 was so easy and so rewarding, not 25m raiding finally get some cookies. But it is very small basket, they need to add something up in the future.
Last edited by Isfio; 2013-01-23 at 07:22 PM.
As a 10 man raider don't mind this at all.
I am interested to see what the drop rate is does add yet another layer of complexity e.g. Thuderforged Sha Touched Weapons (if we get new Sha Touched weapons in 5.2) but hey lets see how it goes!
I really wish the would de a PvE loot blog like the PvP one.
So so much up in the air just now!
You are literally stupid, You can not heal through chains breaking in non jasper phase with out the use of healing cooldown on the duo of downs. You will go oom if people stand in pools and colbalt mines. Please stop your words are so asinine it hurts to read.
Garalon is less of dps race and more execution based, hell you can nine man only in msv epics and heroic blues.
2 people visions over 4, also transition burst damage coupled with a sonic disruptions is deadly, whereas in 10man those literally do not do nearly as high percentage of health and easier to recover from. Also sorry you don't have resto shamans. In our 10m we could two heal it with a holy and resto shaman.
Sha of Fear? Lol no, your not forced to bring 4 tanks because some of your dps is lack luster, especially with the fear the idiots can't kill their platform and return. Sure theres a chance only non retards will be sent but why risk the wipe when your dps cant pick up orbs or kill the ad in a timely manner. And no you can't heal through anything. Like dps getting gibbed in blade lord, more melee getting trapped in windlord, more risk of dieing to wind bombs because more people susceptible to lag spikes during phase 2 of windlord. Just stop this is a losing argument adn you know it.
You get 6 loot in 25.
Doing 10 man HC just feels simpler, not easier just simpler.
And this new change by Blizz is worthless. Once people stop whining and think about it they'll figure out that neither 10 or 25 man will get full thunderfogged gear by the end of a normal tier so at most it will be 1-2 ilvl difference. That makes it not that bad but ultimately worthless for keeping 25 man alive.
Just give separate achis or something, extra loot without ilvl difference is just not enough to keep me in 25.
I play ina guild using a DKP system.
This change atumaticly makes any non thunderforged item not worth to be looted because i end up using my DKP for something that is not the best option.
In before Blizzards next fabulous idea: Elite Thunderforged Heroic Gear, which is 6 iLvls above Thunderforged gear but totally rare! You now have at least 9 copies of every item, all teh same, just more or less statpoints. Sounds like this could really fix ... something!
Lets not mention progression feng kills where 2 people get arc resonance and if your raid is retarded they literally wipe a raid, whereas in 10man you can soak a tick or two from one resonance going off in a stack.
I am very happy that Blizzard is doing something to reward 25 man raiding guilds. 25 man raiding guilds have to go through so much more work to recruit, prepare and execute encounters.
However, I do understand that some people will say, "25 man raiding is a personal decision. Why should people who choose 10 man raiding not get the same benefits? If people want to do 25 man raiding, they should just accept all of that extra work as part of the gig and stop whining for benefits."
The reason I think Blizzard needs to reward the extra effort is (regardless of anyone's feelings/leanings towards 25 vs 10) that there is a distinct difference in the atmosphere and community created in a 25 man raiding team vs a 10 man raiding team. Blizzard realizes that the ease of running a 10 man raiding guild out weighs the benefits of running a 25 man raiding guild and that a large percentage of 25 man raiding guilds have died since the switch. Blizzard does not want to lose 25 man raiding guilds because of the type of atmosphere and community they create.
If 25 man raiding guilds go extinct WoW so will that atmosphere and community and Blizzard will probably lose a vast majority of players who enjoy that. It makes good business sense to find a way to reward extra effort. I am not sure I like this idea but I am happy Blizzard is looking to reward the extra time spent running a 25 man raiding guild so that they do not disappear. They just have to find that perfect balance and, unfortunately, I do not think we will ever agree on a middle ground. This is the internetz, let's not forget.
Does Blizzard really think that a slightly higher drop chance for a few items is going to save 25 man raiding? Are they seriously that out of touch with their own player base?
This change will just make 25 easier than 10... they already are since the natural "nerf" of people getting geared goes faster in 25, it's going to go even faster in 25. I personally don't care, but if I were a 25 man raider, I'd be pissed that it doesn't come with an increase in difficulty.
Now the ridiculousness of that thing, it might force 10 man guilds to do 25s for farm stuff, even if they don't want to, just to help them in 10 man progression. But since they don't change the lockouts, you won't be able to do that when you start doing heroic modes.
The very good side of this is it gives you reasons to do farm stuff, where usually you bring your backups when you don't need anything. It's actually bad news for backups lol.
Last edited by Spotnick; 2013-01-23 at 07:15 PM.
I'm floored. This allows 25 man raids to collect higher item level gear faster, while not preventing 10 man raids from getting the same gear eventually. That's excellent. I have nothing to complain about... and I... I... *head asplode*
Well 25 man is not only hard for leaders its hard for us too since there are goddamn no 25 man guilds left to join lol. I bet even if they drop +30 ilvl in 25 mans, there will always be 10 man raiding guilds around to join.
I wasn't keen on this before I read the changes to 25 and 10 man looting, rng loot on rng loot which you can rng loot with coins which you can get more rolls by rng questing. Seriously?
I raid 10 mans - and I get that Blizzard wants to give an incentive or bonus to guilds that raid 25 man. I am fine with that. I've raided 25, and I understand.
What this doesn't address - is the issue of loot drop disparity in a 10 man setting. Having distributed loot in a 10 man environment all through Cata, and now MoP - the issue we have always run into is too many repeat items that get DE'd - or repeat tokens that we don't need.
My raiders want their full BiS gear just as much as anyone in a 25 man does. They are willing to work for it - and they do.
Given that both 10 and 25 have the exact same loot table size (number of items available) - in a 10 man, you are presented with 2 items off that loot table.
In practice, what we saw in Cata is we full cleared (farmed) Heroic Dragon Soul every week from March 15th (10% nerf) through Sept 18th.
That's six months of farming - and our raid couldn't get full BiS.
We are up against the same issue now - only we are under the gun of gearing up the best we can as we are presented with new content.
So, Blizzard - what do you think is a reasonable amount of time for a 10 man raid to full clear heroic content, and gear up a raid in full BiS?
The feedback of my raiders (we have all raided 25s historically), is that 25s already have incentive with more opportunity at gear upgrades - because 25s have more drops (read more %chance) in 25. Evidence, by the lesser world ranked raids on our server were able to gear up faster in their 25 man once the nerfs rolled in. I am not debating their access to the drops at end of the expansion. I am saying that their rate of gearing over two or three months seemed disparaging compared to our time spent raiding/progressing.
My feedback, and input, is that I understand (and have experienced) what it takes to keep recruitment up to keep a 25 man progression raid going - I have done it. And while I like the idea of random Thunderforged items - I would like to see in addition that 10 mans are given an extra % chance for a third item to drop from the loot table. Is it 25% chance? 40% chance? I don't know.
But we need something to help us get over the hump of repeated item drops that get DEd.
I get that there will always be RNG, and that is a part of the game. But my gut feeling is - I should be able to completely gear my raiders with the gear they want after 6 months of farming content.