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  1. #41
    At this point I wish they would put Demon hunters in with a ranged dual wield spec, a dual wield tank spec and a healing spec. The tears would be so delicious from forcing people who would like to fap the illidan fap to become tanks.
    Last edited by delus; 2013-01-23 at 08:09 PM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletnips View Post
    Number 4 is a reason why Demon hunters will be implemented. I want this and I want it on an orc.
    Demon Hunters should be Night Elf and Blood Elf only. To conform to lore and make elf haters deal with it

  3. #43
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastmasterGuardian View Post
    Stealth - Rogues and Ferals
    Its pretty obvious that when Druids were created, Blizzard wanted their forms to be lesser copies of other classes. Which is why Bears played like Warriors, and Ferals played like Rogues. That design made sense, because Druids could play literally every role in WoW. It isn't remotely the same thing as what we're discussing with Demon Hunters.

    Bubble - Priest, Pally, Mage
    Those aren't the same abilities. For example, Priest and Pally Bubbles cause a debuff, Mage bubbles don't. Pally bubbles are huge CDs, while Priest and Mage bubbles are standard abilities with relatively short CDs. Priests can cast their bubbles on others, while Mages cannot. They also look different from each other.

    Pet - Hunter, Lock, Mage
    Again, not the same. The pet systems are very different from each other, and only one Mage spec has a pet.

    AoE Healing - Priest, Shammy, Druid
    Now you're just reaching.


    To say they will not give the same mechanic to another class (even under the guise of a diff name) is kinda silly.
    Fair enough. I should have said the same ability, not the same mechanic.

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    You do have some points, but you also have to realize that they all are irrelevant, for one simple fact: Blizzard can change or add new things to support the class. They can change their spell repertoire, they can add new lore to justify them, they can do anything to make the class work, if they so desire. As for other classes already having their spells, it wouldn't be the first time a class had a spell with the exact same name as another class. Death Coil and Nature's Swiftness come to mind.

    With this I'm not saying that I want demon hunters, or that they'll make them a new class. Just that your points won't stop them if they decide to make them.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Demon Hunters should be Night Elf and Blood Elf only. To conform to lore and make elf haters deal with it
    By that logic Monks would only be Pandarens and Humans.

    if you read my earlier posts ( read read ) you will see how they could build the next class, and how they could open it up to almost every race.

  6. #46
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elementalkin View Post
    If you're literally arguing that a Demon Hunter class cannot be added to WoW unless it's exactly the same as the one in the RTS, then I guess I have to concede.
    There has to be a strong resemblance to the core hero unit or else it needs to be merged into a broader archetype. Death Knights are a prime example of the former, Brewmaster is an example of the latter.

    Again, Demon Hunters seem to be merging into the broader Warlock class.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 08:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    You do have some points, but you also have to realize that they all are irrelevant, for one simple fact: Blizzard can change or add new things to support the class. They can change their spell repertoire, they can add new lore to justify them, they can do anything to make the class work, if they so desire. As for other classes already having their spells, it wouldn't be the first time a class had a spell with the exact same name as another class. Death Coil and Nature's Swiftness come to mind.

    With this I'm not saying that I want demon hunters, or that they'll make them a new class. Just that your points won't stop them if they decide to make them.
    I acknowledged that in the OP. Obviously Blizzard could shove Demon Hunters into the game and it would be an awful mess. I'm simply pointing out how that is an unlikely scenario. If anything, you're more likely to see a Demon Hunter spec emerge from the Warlock class.

  7. #47
    Brass tacks -- a Burning Legion themed expansion involving the actual hunting of actual demons on their home or occupied turf (such as if we are all part of some army of light) that doesn't come with actual Demon Hunters, is a failed expansion, before it even starts.

  8. #48
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    There has to be a strong resemblance to the core hero unit or else it needs to be merged into a broader archetype. Death Knights are a prime example of the former, Brewmaster is an example of the latter.

    Again, Demon Hunters seem to be merging into the broader Warlock class.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 08:20 PM ----------



    I acknowledged that in the OP. Obviously Blizzard could shove Demon Hunters into the game and it would be an awful mess. I'm simply pointing out how that is an unlikely scenario. If anything, you're more likely to see a Demon Hunter spec emerge from the Warlock class.
    Far as I can tell, DH was closest to being in the Warlock class during MoP beta when metamorphosis could tank. Since then things are being pulled out of other classes (Mana Burn) or being switched around (Metamorphosis) to seemingly make room for the DHunter.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    I agree with the OP... Given the look of the challenge mode armors for Warlocks I feel Demon Hunters will not exist as a full class. However, I do feel it is entirely possible for Dark Apotheosis (Glyph of Demon Hunting) to become a Warlock Tanking spec in it's own right. Granted a 4th spec may not work for every class but if they named the spec Demon Hunter with the passives: Demon Sight, Duel Wield, War Glaive proficiency and move the Metamorphosis abilities from Demonology you'd have a just about everything needed for a fully functional tank spec.

    Just a thought
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  10. #50
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I acknowledged that in the OP. Obviously Blizzard could shove Demon Hunters into the game and it would be an awful mess. I'm simply pointing out how that is an unlikely scenario. If anything, you're more likely to see a Demon Hunter spec emerge from the Warlock class.
    Thing is, it doesn't necessarily have to be a mess. It CAN work. Look at how much people whined about Pandaren (and to a lesser extent, Monks) and how much of a lore mess it would be, and it turned out better than most things the game has seen.

    I'm not saying it'll be all butterflies and sunshine if they do it, but it doesn't mean it'll end up as a mess either.

    I'll be honest here: I don't think demon hunters will be a playable class at all, Burning Legion or no Burning Legion. I'm just playing the "other side" thing, saying that it can work, despite all the possible drawbacks.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    There has to be a strong resemblance to the core hero unit or else it needs to be merged into a broader archetype. Death Knights are a prime example of the former, Brewmaster is an example of the latter.

    Again, Demon Hunters seem to be merging into the broader Warlock class.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 08:20 PM ----------



    I acknowledged that in the OP. Obviously Blizzard could shove Demon Hunters into the game and it would be an awful mess. I'm simply pointing out how that is an unlikely scenario. If anything, you're more likely to see a Demon Hunter spec emerge from the Warlock class.
    I think you skipped my posts. ( read read )

    You will see their are only 5 missing Hero classes, one of which is the undead copy of another. If you look at gear you will see only one gap for a class, there are several gaps for specs that use certain gear types.

    The Primary gap is Mail armor, the secondary gap is Range weapon Use, and Spell plate use.
    If they plan to make 12 total classes they can wrap up all the missing hero classes in one class, have them train in outland and call them demon hunters. This would be really easy to do. Then they could add a couple of 4th specs to use up gear types. ie spell plate by adding a caster spec to either warriors or deathknights. (ie Spellbreakers, and Necromancers)

    at this point WC3 came out 11 years ago, and they can do what they want with the lore in it since WOW has the majority of the world lore in it.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    There has to be a strong resemblance to the core hero unit or else it needs to be merged into a broader archetype. Death Knights are a prime example of the former, Brewmaster is an example of the latter.

    Again, Demon Hunters seem to be merging into the broader Warlock class.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 08:20 PM ----------



    I acknowledged that in the OP. Obviously Blizzard could shove Demon Hunters into the game and it would be an awful mess. I'm simply pointing out how that is an unlikely scenario. If anything, you're more likely to see a Demon Hunter spec emerge from the Warlock class.
    Too bad that there aren't too many with the locks with challenge mode armor.

  13. #53
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    Too bad that there aren't too many with the locks with challenge mode armor.
    Does anyone have a full challenge mode set yet?
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  14. #54
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    Far as I can tell, DH was closest to being in the Warlock class during MoP beta when metamorphosis could tank. Since then things are being pulled out of other classes (Mana Burn) or being switched around (Metamorphosis) to seemingly make room for the DHunter.
    Actually for all intents and purposes a Demonology Warlock with Dark Apotheosis glyph is playing a Demon Hunter. They have all the skills that makes a Demon Hunter what it is.

    You say that Blizzard is making room for a DH; In what way? Have you actually played a Demonology Lock with and without DA glyph? Its a pretty deep and complex system even without the ability to tank. It would have been amazing in a Demon Hunter class, and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard took DH class ideas and just dumped them into Demonology to make Warlocks more fun to use. In the end, without the Metamorphosis aspect, the DH as a proposed class seems shallow and silly.

  15. #55
    I dont see any reason that DH cant be in game as a playable class. Many classes share abilities. DK has icy touch, Shaman has frost shock. All they need to do is give DH abilities unique names and graphics, but they can do the same thing that locks and rogues can do. We do not currently have a class in game that mixes lock with rogue, so I dont see this as a problem. I think it would be rather interesting to see this. A DH would not make classes with similar abilities obsolete, because the DH would not be identical to said class. Pretty much all the existing classes share a lot of abilities/utilities as it is. For instance we really dont need Shaman, DK's, Monks, or Paladins in game.

  16. #56
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Actually for all intents and purposes a Demonology Warlock with Dark Apotheosis glyph is playing a Demon Hunter. They have all the skills that makes a Demon Hunter what it is.

    You say that Blizzard is making room for a DH; In what way? Have you actually played a Demonology Lock with and without DA glyph? Its a pretty deep and complex system even without the ability to tank. It would have been amazing in a Demon Hunter class, and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard took DH class ideas and just dumped them into Demonology to make Warlocks more fun to use. In the end, without the Metamorphosis aspect, the DH as a proposed class seems shallow and silly.
    Actually I play Warlocks, I have been off tanking as a warlock off and on since vanilla. Just because they are slowly realizing that Warlocks should be able to tank does not mean that they are not going to add a class called Demon Hunter. Read my previous posts on page two.

    You will see it would be simple, the use of the spells with same names would be totally different between warlocks and a demon hunter class. for one thing Blizzard most likely will not open up full tanking with Demonology warlocks. Even though I wish they would. They will however add one more tank/healing class which will wear mail armor. They will also include a range weapon use spec for this class.

    So what would you call a new class that wears mail armor, can tank and heal, with both melee and range weapon specs?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    By that logic Monks would only be Pandarens and Humans.

    if you read my earlier posts ( read read ) you will see how they could build the next class, and how they could open it up to almost every race.
    Nah, it's following the restrictive logic applied to druids. I don't care either way, I just like the idea of people being forced to play elves

  18. #58
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    Thing is, it doesn't necessarily have to be a mess. It CAN work. Look at how much people whined about Pandaren (and to a lesser extent, Monks) and how much of a lore mess it would be, and it turned out better than most things the game has seen.

    I'm not saying it'll be all butterflies and sunshine if they do it, but it doesn't mean it'll end up as a mess either.

    I'll be honest here: I don't think demon hunters will be a playable class at all, Burning Legion or no Burning Legion. I'm just playing the "other side" thing, saying that it can work, despite all the possible drawbacks.
    Well most of the anger towards Pandarens and Pandas were coming from the same type of trolls who think that LFD and LFR ruined the game, or that people who don't raid every other day aren't true WoW fans. Remember the Kung Fu Panda comparisons? This despite the FACT that Pandarens predate Kung Fu Panda by about 6 years?

    Lore-wise Pandaria works just fine. The concept, and the concept of Pandaren Monks came directly from WC3. Its not a large leap to have the alliance and horde find Pandaria, and then have Pandaren Monks spread out around the world and teach other races their fighting style. Heck, that's exactly how Asian martial arts were spread in the real world.

    Here's the deal; Blizzard screwed WC3 style Demon Hunters when they gave Metamorphosis and other aspects of the unit to Warlocks. Now, Blizzard could implement the Demon Hunters from Diablo 3. In fact, that would work out quite well given class balance and the high demand for a petless archer class (though it would tick a lot of people off). The point of this thread though is strictly WC3 style Demon Hunters.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-01-23 at 08:48 PM.

  19. #59
    When someone posts about Demon Hunter requests, there are always these cases.

    - Ignorants who want Diablo 3 Demon Hunters
    - People who completely ignore the current state of Warlocks. Challenge Set? Demon Hunting Glyph? Hello?
    - Overzealous nerds without based arguments.
    - Unaware of the practical part of adding class, bringing in something new. Every Demon Hunter aspect is already included in-game. Warlocks for the magic, Rogues for the moves.

  20. #60
    I agree it's a slim chance that demon hunter will be playable, but I feel most of the arguments are not as airtight as some people present them. Demon Hunters still have a slight chance I would argue as a new class or as a new spec for the existing classes with some very novel developments in the game. As it is, Blizzard will not deny a demon hunter isn't coming to the game, which is annoying. If we're expected to just be pretending to feel like a demon hunter, why do they make all the glaive models off limits to players? It's also a little cruel the way they not only show a playable Demon Hunter on the vanilla box cover, but that as of Cataclysm they continue to drop hints at playable demon hunters via the quest in Darkshore, the new content concerning the Dark Embrace, and the other easter eggs we see like the monk trainer in Kun Lai.

    The major argument against demon hunters poses issues for deathknights to have ever existed.

    Deathknights brought nothing new mechanic wise to the game other than in name and theme only. Every one of their abilities existed in WOW in different forms under different names.

    So is merely having a different name and visual theme enough to warrant a new class? Is having a new name for abilities, a unique visual theme, and a brand new resource mechanic to game enough to warrant a new class?

    If so, they could make the Demon Hunter go back to their original description in Warcract 3, they used "the powers of chaos" rather than fel fire and fel energy itself. Now a semantic issue, but one that could be embellished and developed.

    Suddenly dark shadowy chaos energy e for immolation with new visual FX and a new name like Chaotic immolation is no different than Unholy Aura being another version of Aspect of the Pack.

    I would argue the only thing Deathknights introduced that was new to WOW were brand new abilities they never even had in Warcraft 3.

    For one thing, they used mounted combat in WC3. They death coiled, they had unholy aura, and they had death pact and could summon a minion.

    Death coil was nothing but a ranged magical attack that could heal a minion, which shared the name of a warlock spell.
    Unholy Aura was a movement buff.
    Death Pact is nothing but sacrificing a minion for health.
    Summoning a ghoul is nothing but a pet mechanic with a really cool cosmetic theme.

    None of this is particularly a compelling reason to develop a new class, other than their coolness factor, their popularity, and their lore which was relevant to the story.

    Blizzard made them different by giving them new abilities. Why could they not do the same for demon hunters?

    It comes down to what you personally feel is the strength of their visual and cosmetic theme.

    At their very core in my opinion, they are a melee class which has fel/chaotic tricks. They are inspired by the naked berserkers of the Celts and Vikings, the dwarven Slayers of Warhammer or the Wood Elf Wardancers of Warhammer. But like the paladin is inspired by the knight and given a bag of tricks via holy magic, the rogue or fury warrior could become the demon hunter with a bag of tricks via chaos or fel magic.

    I feel if a paladin can represent a melee priest, a demon hunter can represent a melee warlock if you're willing to break things down to that level of simplicity.

    I feel the argument boils down to 2 sides, people who feel a demon hunter has a strong enough identity that it warrants embellishing to make it stand out as a class, and people who think it doesn't warrant that fleshing out and who feel the class lacks a strong identity.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 02:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    When someone posts about Demon Hunter requests, there are always these cases.

    - Ignorants who want Diablo 3 Demon Hunters
    Indeed.
    - People who completely ignore the current state of Warlocks. Challenge Set? Demon Hunting Glyph? Hello?
    Rogues got warglaives and an eyebinding years before warlocks got that abilitiy. Why didn't rogues at one time being superficially evocative of a demon hunter rule out future demon hunter abilities being given to warlocks?

    - Overzealous nerds without based arguments.
    I'm sure all the ladies and gents can't stop dry humping your leg when you tell them about your high level characters on WOW.
    - Unaware of the practical part of adding class, bringing in something new. Every Demon Hunter aspect is already included in-game. Warlocks for the magic, Rogues for the moves.
    By that logic, there will never be another melee class added to the game again, and we shouldn't even have more than one melee class or ranged spellcaster.

    New melee abilities can be created. New magical abilities can be created. New resource mechanics can be created. At the end of the day any new class will only be a melee, a ranged, a healer, or a tank, with hybridization between the roles. The trick is in making them feel new with a theme or identity that is relevant to the lore of the current expansion.
    Last edited by Yig; 2013-01-23 at 08:59 PM.
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