5 reasons why Demon Hunters won't be a class in WoW

[mistuhbull]

Good argument.



Enhancement shaman for example. Why not just use intellect.

So that Hunters had someone to share their gear with.

[Deleted]

So that Hunters had someone to share their gear with.

Then take the DK. Why does he use strength? He's a melee that uses magic strikes and spells. Why doesn't he use int plate? A melee either uses strength or agility and a caster uses intellect. Everything that deviates from that is just weird.

[Deleted]

So that Hunters had someone to share their gear with.

Either fix that better (hpala shares with nobody, priest shares spi cloth with nobody, hunter shares only with enhance, and shaman only shares with resto/ele) or just keep the game broken. I mean they fixed leather/int to not be for only boomkin/resto, now fix the rest. This is just one of those broken things in WoW Blizzard wouldn't keep broken in a new game, if from ground up, but since WoW is WoW its something we can try to fix as much as possible.

[mistuhbull]

Then take the DK. Why does he use strength? He's a melee that uses magic strikes and spells. Why doesn't he use int plate? A melee either uses Strength or Agility and a caster uses intellect.

Because of Porpoises.

You seem to think that just because they haven't done something, guarantees they won't. They hadn't added flying to Azeroth until Cata, yet they did. They hadn't added Pandaren to WoW, yet they did. They hadn't let Paladins be on Horde, yet they did. They hadn't added more race/class combos, yet they did.

Why do DKs and Enhance use the physical stats? Because at the end of the day, the concept people have (and had) in their minds about these people focused around swinging a sword or a couple maces and smacking people (with some magic help), contrasted to the Demon Hunter which has always had the magical aspects either equal to or greater than the martial ones.

You've yet to argue why having them work off int is bad, other than to say "well, they haven't done it before".

---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 12:29 PM ----------

Either fix that better (hpala shares with nobody, priest shares spi cloth with nobody, hunter shares only with enhance, and shaman only shares with resto/ele) or just keep the game broken. I mean they fixed leather/int to not be for only boomkin/resto, now fix the rest. This is just one of those broken things in WoW Blizzard wouldn't keep broken in a new game, if from ground up, but since WoW is WoW its something we can try to fix as much as possible.

Shaman sharing Ele/Resto: 2 roles using gear
priest sharing between Heal/Shadow: 2 roles using the gear
Int leather between Boomkin and Tree: 2 roles using the gear
Agi mail between Hunter and Enhance: 2 roles using the gear

See the trend?
Yes, Int Plate is an outlier.

As to why not fix it now? People are accustomed to Enhance Shamans using Agi mail, that's what they are used to and that is what they expect (not to mention the logistical hassles of doing a swap to Int mail without fucking over Enhance shamans)

[Deleted]

Why do DKs and Enhance use the physical stats? Because at the end of the day, the concept people have (and had) in their minds about these people focused around swinging a sword or a couple maces and smacking people (with some magic help), contrasted to the Demon Hunter which has always had the magical aspects either equal to or greater than the martial ones.

You've yet to argue why having them work off int is bad, other than to say "well, they haven't done it before".

And that's the point. As much as you envision DK and Enh Shaman swinging swords or maces you envision the DH swinging his glaives. He's melee. If he uses spells, it will be to the same extent DK and Enh Shaman do.

My argument is not that they won't do it because they've never done it, my argument is that they won't do it because they think it doesn't make any sense, and I agree with them.

[tkc-von]

My two cents: if they do a demon hunter it will be a cloth wearing pet tanking class. There was some speculation in MoP that locks would get a tanking spec. They didn't. Maybe demon hunters will be that spec. That said, if one DH spec is going to be tanking then what are the other two going to be?

[Deleted]

My two cents: if they do a demon hunter it will be a cloth wearing pet tanking class. There was some speculation in MoP that locks would get a tanking spec. They didn't. Maybe demon hunters will be that spec. That said, if one DH spec is going to be tanking then what are the other two going to be?

DH doesn't have pets. And there's no need for that if you could just turn the Demo Lock into that.

If DH becomes a class you could basically do everything, but I think 2 melee specs and 1 tank spec would make most sense. You could base a caster spec on Metamorphosis, but like I said before, I see the DH more as Melee. A Demon Hunter who doesn't swing his glaives doesn't feel right.

[Teriz]

And that's the point. As much as you envision DK and Enh Shaman swinging swords or maces you envision the DH swinging his glaives. He's melee. If he uses spells, it will be to the same extent DK and Enh Shaman do.

My argument is not that they won't do it because they've never done it, my argument is that they won't do it because they think it doesn't make any sense, and I agree with them.

And here is the problem with your argument; Warlocks utilize the magic type that Demon Hunters use, have immolation and Metamorphosis, have a glyph called Glyph of Demon Hunting, and have a DH looking armor set named after Illidan. It would make sense that they are pretty close to being WoW's version of the Demon Hunter.

We're not just picking a random class here and slapping Demon Hunter stuff to it. We're picking a class that is pretty close to having a Demon Hunter spec. The only thing stopping it is that Warlocks aren't a melee class and that NEs can't be Warlocks. Everything else is in place.

Those issues are tiny compared to the larger problem of implementing an entire Demon Hunter class.

[Hitei]

And here is the problem with your argument; Warlocks utilize the magic type that Demon Hunters use, have immolation and Metamorphosis, have a glyph called Glyph of Demon Hunting, and have a DH looking armor set named after Illidan. It would make sense that they are pretty close to being WoW's version of the Demon Hunter.

We're not just picking a random class here and slapping Demon Hunter stuff to it. We're picking a class that is pretty close to having a Demon Hunter spec. The only thing stopping it is that Warlocks aren't a melee class and that NEs can't be Warlocks. Everything else is in place.

Those issues are tiny compared to the larger problem of implementing an entire Demon Hunter class.

I'm confused what you're trying to argue here.
Are you saying that theoretically DH would use int gear because demonology warlocks use int gear?

[Teriz]

I'm confused what you're trying to argue here.
Are you saying that theoretically DH would use int gear because demonology warlocks use int gear?

Yes. We've been discussing how that is possible for a few pages now.

[Deleted]

And here is the problem with your argument; Warlocks utilize the magic type that Demon Hunters use, have immolation and Metamorphosis, have a glyph called Glyph of Demon Hunting, and have a DH looking armor set named after Illidan. It would make sense that they are pretty close to being WoW's version of the Demon Hunter.

We're not just picking a random class here and slapping Demon Hunter stuff to it. We're picking a class that is pretty close to having a Demon Hunter spec. The only thing stopping it is that Warlocks aren't a melee class and that NEs can't be Warlocks. Everything else is in place.

Those issues are tiny compared to the larger problem of implementing an entire Demon Hunter class.

They're not close at all. They can never be DHs from a lore standpoint, because DHs have their own traditions and rituals that Warlocks have nothing to do with. And from a gameplay standpoint they're not DHs because they lack the visual and the melee fighting style with glaives.

There is no larger problem in implementing the DH as a class.

[Deleted]

Shaman sharing Ele/Resto: 2 roles using gear
priest sharing between Heal/Shadow: 2 roles using the gear
Int leather between Boomkin and Tree: 2 roles using the gear
Agi mail between Hunter and Enhance: 2 roles using the gear

See the trend?
Yes, Int Plate is an outlier.

Yes, I do, I've done this observation myself before but thanks for stating it.

Your statement is inaccurate and doesn't include all those with 3 (including the recently fixed agi/leather). You can remove int/leather from the list due to boomkin, tree, and mistweaver monk. Just like agi/leather got fixed (rogue, feral, windwalker). IOW leather got fixed in MoP.

Which means the hpala is the easiest to gear up, hands down, and then

Shaman sharing Ele/Resto: 2 roles using gear
Priest sharing between Heal/Shadow: 2 roles using the gear
Agi mail between Hunter and Enhance: 2 roles using the gear

A mail-based class with agi and int would fix 2 of the above groups.

I'd also like to note priest is a special case, since also shares with hit/cloth (warlock and mage). A human shadow priest should go for spirit right now (makes it better than Pandaren) otherwise spriest is a little bit easier to gear up because aside from sharing hit with 2 other classes, it shares the spi with healing priest. So it is like 2,5, inbetween. Healer priest cloth shares only with spriest tho, which is 2,0. There's no place for a cloth tank unless it can balance spirit to 3rd, and only that (no more healer cloth), even then the spriest still has advantage because it can eat from 2 types of cheese.

[Hitei]

Yes. We've been discussing how that is possible for a few pages now.

No I realize that, but your argument in that particular post is rather flawed.
It's not like Blizzard was going to create special agility cloth items just for demonology because the spec is Demon Hunter-esque, so it's a bit silly to argue that demonology warlocks are evidence that a brand new class would use int.

To begin with, despite the fact that they use basically identical spell sets, the Demon Hunter would still be meleeing.
It's roughly the same as a holy (chastise) priest and a ret paladin. They both use holy/holy-fire based attacks, but the ret is entirely melee focused in his delivery and so uses strength to increase the power of his blows.

As Nindoriel said, it's really a matter of making sense. At the end of the day, a Demon Hunter is an agile warrior who also uses magic, not a learned/intelligent magic user who also happens to also attack things with glaives.

There is no larger problem in implementing the DH as a class.

There are much larger problems.
That warlocks posses the entire iconic Demon Hunter skill set.
That the only race with knowledge of the path to becoming Demon Hunters are the Night Elves, and keep the knowledge buried or destroyed, and despise Demon Hunter more than anything except demons themselves.
That (as Ghostcrawler tweeted) there really isn't any place for them that isn't already held by warriors, warlocks, rogues, etc.

[Deleted]

No I realize that, but your argument in that particular post is rather flawed.
It's not like Blizzard was going to create special agility cloth items just for demonology because the spec is Demon Hunter-esque, so it's a bit silly to argue that demonology warlocks are evidence that a brand new class would use int.

To begin with, despite the fact that they use basically identical spell sets, the Demon Hunter would still be meleeing.
It's roughly the same as a holy (chastise) priest and a ret paladin. They both use holy/holy-fire based attacks, but the ret is entirely melee focused in his delivery and so uses strength to increase the power of his blows.

As Nindoriel said, it's really a matter of making sense. At the end of the day, a Demon Hunter is an agile warrior who also uses magic, not a learned/intelligent magic user who also happens to also attack things with glaives.

Exactly. There are so many melee classes that use spells, but melee classes still use strength and agility.

[Teriz]

They're not close at all.

Opinion.

They can never be DHs from a lore standpoint, because DHs have their own traditions and rituals that Warlocks have nothing to do with.

Irrelevant. See Tauren Paladins and BE Paladins. Lore can and has been bent for gameplay purposes.

And from a gameplay standpoint they're not DHs because they lack the visual and the melee fighting style with glaives.

Already been discussed and your argument has been disproven.

There is no larger problem in implementing the DH as a class.

Significant class overlap and severe lack of spec variety are much bigger issues than making a melee Warlock spec and allowing Night Elves to become Warlocks.

[Deleted]

Opinion.
.

Fact.

I'm sorry but you still show your lack of knowledge regarding the DH. They're as close to each other as Paladin and Priest. They use the same magic type, but they have a different fighting style and have different lore.

[Teriz]

No I realize that, but your argument in that particular post is rather flawed.
It's not like Blizzard was going to create special agility cloth items just for demonology because the spec is Demon Hunter-esque, so it's a bit silly to argue that demonology warlocks are evidence that a brand new class would use int.

I never made that argument. The argument was that if Demon Hunters were going to appear in the game, its more likely to be coming from the Warlock class instead of an entirely new class.

As Nindoriel said, it's really a matter of making sense. At the end of the day, a Demon Hunter is an agile warrior who also uses magic, not a learned/intelligent magic user who also happens to also attack things with glaives.

Illidan was a magic user before he became a Demon Hunter. Just saying.

Also Mistweavers are agile warriors who use INT gear.

[mistuhbull]

Fact.

I'm sorry but you still show your lack of knowledge regarding the DH. They're as close to each other as Paladin and Priest. They use the same magic type, but they have a different fighting style and have different lore.

The first Paladins were priests who got some martial training to fight back against the Orcs...

[Teriz]

Fact.

I'm sorry but you still show your lack of knowledge regarding the DH. They're as close to each other as Paladin and Priest. They use the same magic type, but they have a different fighting style and have different lore.

Sorry, but ignoring numerous similarities and saying the two aren't close together is an opinion. A fact is a universal truth.

BTW, me saying they are close together is also an opinion.

[Deleted]

Irrelevant. See Tauren Paladins and BE Paladins. Lore can and has been bent for gameplay purposes.



Already been discussed and your argument has been disproven.



Significant class overlap and severe lack of spec variety are much bigger issues than making a melee Warlock spec and allowing Night Elves to become Warlocks.

It's not about race class combo, it's that a Warlock is not a Demon Hunter. It would be like playing a Night Elf Priest and then switching spec to become a Paladin.

Which argument has been disproven? That DHs fight with glaives?

There is no significant class overlap. It's one important spell and the Metamorphosis ingame is different from the original DH WC3 spell. What does lack of spec variety even mean? That there can be no 3 DH specs that distinguish themselves from each other enough to feel different? People have given countless examples.