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  1. #1041
    52 pages in and we still have people arguing in favor of copying or downright stealing Warlock Metamorphosis?

    Again, if you want to compare "lifted" abilities, a better comparison is still Druid forms. We're not talking about copying a HoT from one class to another, we're talking about something a little more iconic. Adding a class with that shifts into a bear form to tank would be stupid, no?

    Would love to play a DH but unfortunately that ship already sailed.
    Last edited by Rethul Ur No; 2013-01-29 at 07:15 AM.

  2. #1042
    Warlocks and DH's draw power from the same place, it makes sense they'd have similar powers. Just have the demon form abilities they gain be distinct and it works.

  3. #1043
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    I've always been curious - how would evasion tanking actually work? For sustained tanking? Something like bloodshield, where damage you do translates to duration, or number of attacks evaded, or damage offset?
    To play with the Demon Hunter theme, it could be sort of a 'price for power' mechanic, where you reduce your healing taken but evade the next 4 attacks. You will have different cooldowns of varying power, the more powerful the bigger the price to pay. The idea would be to healers something to do while you take less hits overall.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2013-01-29 at 07:38 AM.

  4. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    52 pages in and we still have people arguing in favor of copying or downright stealing Warlock Metamorphosis?

    Again, if you want to compare "lifted" abilities, a better comparison is still Druid forms. We're not talking about copying a HoT from one class to another, we're talking about something a little more iconic. Adding a class with that shifts into a bear form to tank would be stupid, no?

    Would love to play a DH but unfortunately that ship already sailed.
    Indeed.

    WoW is getting a ranged as next class ( if there will be any ).

    So either Tinker or Bard .

  5. #1045
    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    Again, if you want to compare "lifted" abilities, a better comparison is still Druid forms. We're not talking about copying a HoT from one class to another, we're talking about something a little more iconic. Adding a class with that shifts into a bear form to tank would be stupid, no?.
    Druids shift into animals, Shamans turn into wolves. Paladins gain wings and summon angels, Priests turn into winged spirits if they die. Overlap is present and thematic between likened classes, this would be no different.

  6. #1046
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    To play with the Demon Hunter theme, it could be sort of a 'price for power' mechanic, where you reduce your healing taken but evade the next 4 attacks. You will have different cooldowns of varying power, the more powerful the bigger the price to pay. The idea would be to healers something to do while you take less hits overall.

    Ooo, I kinda like that... spending your health to avoid greater damage. I don't know that you could build an entire tank class around the mechanic of avoiding damage by damaging yourself though... seems a little round-about.

  7. #1047
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Druids shift into animals
    Shamans turn into wolves.
    Druid forms are primarily a function of combat abilities. Tanking, DPSing, Healing. Shaman Ghost Wolf is mobility. They don't tank, heal, or DPS in Ghost Wolf form. The only comparison to be made is between Travel Form and Ghost Wolf form and the purpose they serve is so niche that thematic overlap is quite easily forgivable.

    Paladins gain wings and summon angels, Priests turn into winged spirits if they die. Overlap is present and thematic between likened classes, this would be no different.
    "Occasionally gaining wings" is a bit of a stretch from a full-fledged Demon Form central to class mechanics (Archangel is actually a better comparison to Pally Wings). Your heart is in the right place but this is still no comparison.

    Again, this is giving Bear Form to a new class and making it fit a large combat role. We're stumbling into the murky would of aesthetic opinions but Demonology is ALL ABOUT getting Demon Juice and turning into a large winged Demon to burn stuff down. Fair or not, shapeshifting is step above simply gaining a brief graphical augmentation.
    Last edited by Rethul Ur No; 2013-01-29 at 08:00 AM.

  8. #1048
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    See that's actually a valid point...ooh new idea. What if each spec of the DH class was based on a different demon transformation? A tanking spec is based on a Pit Lord and you get the big horns and some cool skin effects and a tail, the Ranged DPS form is Illidan's demon, and the Melee is a Dreadlord (or Wrathguard) (or no demon?). That's actually a good way to bring it in
    I proposed exactly that idea like 30 pages ago.

  9. #1049
    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    Druid forms are primarily a function of combat abilities. Tanking, DPSing, Healing. Shaman Ghost Wolf is mobility.
    If you're talking about game mechanics being different, I've explained ways it can be different while still retaining familiarity. The only similarities is theme. Boomkin Form and Shadow Form are essentially the same purpose, a specialized DPS form that provides passive boosts to offense and defense. The idea of shifting into forms wouldn't be 1:1 with Demolock, and even then there are multiple types of demons you could possibly turn into that a Warlock can't (Pit Lords, Dread Lords, etc).

  10. #1050
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonTargaryen View Post
    I think that if Demon hunters are ever included as a playable class, it will be as one of the specs of a new class, the way Brewmasters were rolled into Monks.

    If we get a Legion expansion, we might get a new class called "Warden" or something like that -I'm just throwing out a random name here- and Demon hunter will be one of its three specs. That will avoid the name confusion with "Hunter" also. I personally don't think that's a problem but I can see Blizzard being worried about that.

    That way Night elves can be Demon hunters, and one of the other non-Demon hunter specs can be Ranged weapon spec. Something like looks like the D3 Demon hunter without stepping on the toes of Warcraft Demon hunter lore.
    Now that's something that could actually work. Probably DHs from Diablo 3 to boot. That makes quite a bit more sense then the other mess people are posting.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 12:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Warlocks and DH's draw power from the same place, it makes sense they'd have similar powers. Just have the demon form abilities they gain be distinct and it works.
    Oh? And how would you do that? We already have Warlocks with half of the Demon Hunter's base skills. Shaman and Druids also have similar powers, but Blizzard established their differences a long time ago with Totems being the iconic Shaman mechanic, and Shape-shifting being the iconic Druid mechanic.

    So what's left for Demon Hunters? Shape-shifting into a demon? Warlocks already have 2 different versions of that mechanic.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-01-29 at 12:53 PM.

  11. #1051
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    5.Better class options available

    Despite their insane popularity, DHs aren't the best class options for the game. Several classes would be a better fit for modern WoW, and offer more to the playerbase, and overall class balance. Tinkers, Spellbreakers, and Rangers are just a few examples. Obviously though, none of those classes have the same appeal as Demon Hunters do.

    Conclusion: Given the reasons above, I think its highly unlikely that we'll see a Demon Hunter class in WoW. Again, I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong, since Demon Hunters are one of my favorite heroes from WC3. In the end, if you want to play a Demon Hunter in WoW, you probably should roll a Warlock.
    The best option that will give people a little taste of the Demon Hunter without it being exactly the same as a DH would be the Dark Ranger, it fits into the it hates anything to do with Demons and Undead role so any expansion with either it would fit into perfectly. Much like Illidan they are very vengeful and will stop at nothing to eradicate them from existence. Also they could use Sylvanis to train them in a starting zone similar to the DK's she could be secretly creating an army of freed Rangers for the purpose of taking down Arthas and anyone responsible for the unlife that was thrust upon them.
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  12. #1052
    High Overlord FraQture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicBanana View Post
    None of your five points are valid imo.

    I would love to see a demon hunter class, it would be pretty badass. And, as someone said earlier, I think monks prove that if the player-base community all express enough that it is something they want, blizzard could pull through with it.
    Imo, I think Blizzard is following the lore abit more the what the playerbase wants. Since they were gonna release Monks in Tbc, but didn't cause they though it was abit early I think.

  13. #1053
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FraQture View Post
    Imo, I think Blizzard is following the lore abit more the what the playerbase wants. Since they were gonna release Monks in Tbc, but didn't cause they though it was abit early I think.
    I still think Dark Ranger is next, Blizzard has been interested in that class for a long time.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

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  14. #1054
    Id rather have demon hunting be a 4th spec for warlocks, a melee dps one?

  15. #1055
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Oh? And how would you do that? We already have Warlocks with half of the Demon Hunter's base skills.
    Aside from Metamorphosis, there's only immolation/hellfire. It would not be a grand hardship to excise that.

    Frankly, I would just as soon strip out all the pseudo-tank mechanics that have been shoe-horned into a ranged caster class - they don't really fit.

    I could live with a 4th warlock spec that's more melee focused I guess... have two different demon forms that operate in two different ways. I don't know how you'd make a warlock fit in with the normal form demon hunter's melee focus though. Swap out mana for energy? Give them spec-specific access to melee weapons? Kill range on most spells so you gotta get in close? Then have the 4th spec's demon form return range and give you a big boost for ranged burst DPS... that'd actually be more in keeping with the WC3 version. Kinda turn them into a melee/range hybrid.

    Then stick the demonology lock's form with the ranged spells and keep their theme going towards Dreadlord-style.

  16. #1056
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Just played through Darkshore again and there was this quest where you had to kill the shade of that Demon Hunter. The demon form he turns into looks completely different from the Warlock Metamorphosis. Looks a bit like a dreadlord, but also a bit different. Also the item that you recover is something that could teach you to be a Demon Hunter, and it largely hints that there could've been people before you who entered that cave and had access to those teachings.

    Also it mentions the Dark Embrace, and nowhere is it explained what the Dark Embrace really is. This seems to be a big hint towards a playable demon hunter class and seeing that different Metamorphosis definitely shows just because the Warlock has a Metamorphosis doesn't mean there can't be a demon hunter class with a different looking one.




    http://www.wowhead.com/quest=28529

    The scrolls are vague and appear to be a piece of a much larger puzzle, but if you are not mistaken, they seem to reveal some of the steps on the path to becoming a demon hunter.

    The dark oaths and rituals necessary for becoming a demon hunter are frowned on by most of the night elves, so this is likely something they would be very interested in keeping quiet.


    Where did you find these?! You haven't shown them to anyone else, have you?

    I apologize. You took me off guard. Telarius was a very powerful Demon Hunter, but he was slain during a confrontation with the warden, Maeiv, many years ago. You are fortunate that his ghost was only a shade of his former power. I wonder how many have found their way to him in those ruins.

    I will see to it that these scrolls make their way to the high priestess immediately. Thank you, <name>.

  17. #1057
    Bloodsail Admiral DonQShot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    52 pages in and we still have people arguing in favor of copying or downright stealing Warlock Metamorphosis?

    Again, if you want to compare "lifted" abilities, a better comparison is still Druid forms. We're not talking about copying a HoT from one class to another, we're talking about something a little more iconic. Adding a class with that shifts into a bear form to tank would be stupid, no?

    Would love to play a DH but unfortunately that ship already sailed.
    FIRST-Metamorph is not as iconic to warlocks as it is to demon hunters;
    SECOND- metamorph is a dispensable CD in warlocks rotation and could be replaced with something else
    THIRD- picking up on the previous statement, if metamorph was not to be removed from locks then leave it as it is and grant a different metamorph system to demon hunters

  18. #1058
    I love how you say it won't happen because of abilities...... Lemme check rogues were first only class to vanish ou wait now there's a ton of classes who can vanish....

  19. #1059
    Bloodsail Admiral DonQShot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Aside from Metamorphosis, there's only immolation/hellfire. It would not be a grand hardship to excise that.

    Frankly, I would just as soon strip out all the pseudo-tank mechanics that have been shoe-horned into a ranged caster class - they don't really fit.

    I could live with a 4th warlock spec that's more melee focused I guess... have two different demon forms that operate in two different ways. I don't know how you'd make a warlock fit in with the normal form demon hunter's melee focus though. Swap out mana for energy? Give them spec-specific access to melee weapons? Kill range on most spells so you gotta get in close? Then have the 4th spec's demon form return range and give you a big boost for ranged burst DPS... that'd actually be more in keeping with the WC3 version. Kinda turn them into a melee/range hybrid.

    Then stick the demonology lock's form with the ranged spells and keep their theme going towards Dreadlord-style.
    This is what I have in mind as well. its far more easier and actually more in truth with lore to stop this demo lock caster/melee aberration and just tune towards a dreadlord style with a lot of pets. Plus, the metamorph Cd could be swapped with a warlock golem instead, like the one from dota2. this would be a powerful enough pet that could take the place of the demon form. And just as a special treat, we could be given a warlock 4th spec base on tanking in a demon form just like what we have now and based on the Dark Apotheosis glyph. At least that way we wouldn't be mixing demon hunters into melee warlocks and caster warlocks into melee demons

  20. #1060
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonQShot View Post
    FIRST-Metamorph is not as iconic to warlocks as it is to demon hunters;
    SECOND- metamorph is a dispensable CD in warlocks rotation and could be replaced with something else
    You clearly haven't played Warlocks in MoP or read about the class changes MoP brought. Metamorphosis is certainly an Iconic ability and is definitely more then a dispensable cool down since it is no longer a cool down.
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