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  1. #1
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    5 reasons why Demon Hunters won't be a class in WoW

    They look cool. They have awesome looking weapons and attitudes. They're among the most popular classes in WoW. However, you're probably never going to see them appear in the game as a playable class. That's not to say that it's impossible, just HIGHLY unlikely. If Blizzard announces the Demon Hunter class at the next Blizzcon, I'll happily eat crow, and prepare to roll one late next year when the next expansion releases. However, until that unlikely event occurs, here's the 5 reasons you'll more than likely never see a Demon Hunter as a playable class in WoW.


    1.The Abilities

    Probably the biggest thing hampering the introduction of a Demon Hunter class is that its primary abilities have been farmed out to other classes. Rogues have Evasion, Priests had Mana Burn, and Warlocks have Immolation Aura, and Metamorphosis. Now keep this in mind, when Blizzard introduced the Monk class, they took the entire Brewmaster ability set and applied it to the new class. The same thing occurred when Blizzard introduced Death Knights in WotLK. This wouldn't be a problem if the Warlock and Rogue abilities weren't exactly like Demon Hunter abilities, but they are. Metamorphosis is exactly how you would picture the WC3 spell in WoW. Demonology locks even transform into Demons the way DHs would if they were in WoW.

    I really can't stress how important this point is. There's no way Blizzard is going to introduce the exact same mechanic for 2 classes. Also if they did, what would they give the DH that would be different from the Warlock? The Warlock has every conceivable ability that could exist from Metamorphosis. There's nothing more that can be created or taken from that ability to make it different for the DH. Now Blizzard could make DHs without Meta, but what would be the point? Meta was what made DHs amazing in the first place.

    BTW, I personally feel that Blizzard made a colossal misstep by giving Warlocks Metamorphosis and DA. I would have preferred a DH class utilizing those abilities. Now thanks to that move, we're more than likely never going to see DHs in this game. Nice move fellas...

    2.Gameplay

    Another issue is how DH gameplay would work over three specs. DHs have a pretty uniform style of play. Its so uniform that going outside of that means that you're not really playing a DH anymore. Death Knights also had this issue. To compensate, Blizzard took abilities and concepts from every undead hero and fused them into the DK class. Blood came largely from the Dreadlord, Frost came from the Lich, and obviously UH came from the Death Knight. It all made sense because the Undead/Scourge all came from the same general source of power, so it was conceivable that the Death Knight could legitimately pull from all of those sources and make a varied style of gameplay.

    But what about Demon Hunters? I mean yeah, you have the WC3 hero with its four abilities (which are already used by other classes), but what else can you do with it? The Night Elf heroes and units don't really go well with the Demon Hunter concept, and most of those abilities are taken by other classes. How are you going to take that narrow style of gameplay and split it into three distinct specs without significant overlap? Worse, how are you going to avoid making it feel like a do-over of Rogues?

    3. Class Balance

    Though not as major as the first two, this is another problem with bringing DHs into WoW. DKs and Monks fit relatively well with the game's structure. DKs took the third spot for plate, and Monks took up the third spot for leather. Monks even gave some competition with Druids for INT Leather. Both classes also came in as hybrids, giving the game new opportunities to tank or heal. Both also came in as melee classes. Thankfully both classes were hybrids so players could spec into either tanking or healing if a raid or group needed something besides DPS.

    DHs present an interesting dilemma in that regard; They would be melee, and they would more than likely have to wear leather. Granted, they could wear mail, but that clashes strongly with the class' lore. Currently, Mail is the last armor type that doesn't have three classes going for it. Mail is semi-heavy armor. Demon Hunters don't wear heavy armor. In fact, Demon Hunters barely wear any armor at all. At best they would wear leather or cloth. Anyone willing to believe that we're getting yet another leather wearing, agility-based, melee class? Didn't think so.

    4.The Illidan problem

    Let's be honest; People want to play Demon Hunters so that they can look like Illidan Stormrage. He's probably the coolest and most iconic character in Warcraft. People want to run around with those wings, blindfolds, and Warglaives. People want those runes over their body, and they want to wreck stuff the way he wrecks stuff. So how would this work in-game? Probably not too well. If you introduce Demon Hunters, you're going to see a surge of Night Elf male characters popping up all over the place. None of them are going to want to use regular swords or staffs, or whatever else DHs could potentially use. They would all want the Blades of Azzinoth on their backs, and anyone without those blades would be considered a noob. Would they want to wear helmets, shoulders, cloaks, and chest gear? Nope. They'd run around shirtless just like Illidan. They'll never want to raid because they couldn't look like Illidan while their raiding. You think Blizzard is going to create an entire item system just for DHs? I mean, they could, but I seriously doubt it.

    It'll be an utter and complete disaster.

    5.Better class options available

    Despite their insane popularity, DHs aren't the best class options for the game. Several classes would be a better fit for modern WoW, and offer more to the playerbase, and overall class balance. Tinkers, Spellbreakers, and Rangers are just a few examples. Obviously though, none of those classes have the same appeal as Demon Hunters do.

    Conclusion: Given the reasons above, I think its highly unlikely that we'll see a Demon Hunter class in WoW. Again, I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong, since Demon Hunters are one of my favorite heroes from WC3. In the end, if you want to play a Demon Hunter in WoW, you probably should roll a Warlock.

  2. #2
    The Patient nulir's Avatar
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    Is this a paradody of something? I seriously don't get it after reading 4.

  3. #3
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    I'll respond to your points, but this will take some processing time.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  4. #4
    I've already thought the same with points #1-3. DH's ship sailed with BC and they missed it.

    However, points #4 I have a hard time taking seriously. Do all DK's run around as Humans with the name xArthasx and refuse to use anything but the coolest 2H sword they can find that resembles Frostmorne? Sure, there was the token joke character in Wrath, but haven't seen those for a long time.

    Still, #1-3 are the stumbling blocks for DH.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I really can't stress how important this point is. There's no way Blizzard is going to introduce the exact same mechanic for 2 classes.
    I read this, fell out of my chair laughing, and didn't bother reading any further.

    You're kidding right? They homogenized the ever living crap out of classes. What's one more?

  6. #6
    I think that monk proves that if enough people want something they will get it regardless of 1-3.

  7. #7
    None of those are valid points.

  8. #8
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottsdaleHokie View Post
    I read this, fell out of my chair laughing, and didn't bother reading any further.

    You're kidding right? They homogenized the ever living crap out of classes. What's one more?
    There's a difference between giving two classes the same buff under a different name, and two classes having the exact same gameplay mechanic and abilities. Again, Metamorphosis as a Warlock in WoW is exactly how Metamorphosis as a DH in WoW is supposed to work. The only way DHs could appear in this game now is if Blizzard completely erased the Demonology Warlock spec and Dark Apotheosis and started over. I seriously doubt that's going to happen at this point, given the rise in popularity of Warlocks and the Demonology spec in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I think that monk proves that if enough people want something they will get it regardless of 1-3.
    The arguments in 1-3 don't apply to the Monk class. Leading up to MoP, no class had any of the Brewmaster's abilities. It also helped that there's numerous examples of Monks in other games and media that helped Blizzard construct a solid class design around their concept. Demon Hunters are pretty unique, and people won't be happy if Blizzard takes a different class concept and slaps Demon Hunter on it (aka Diablo 3).
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-01-23 at 05:53 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    There's a difference between giving two classes the same buff under a different name, and two classes having the exact same gameplay mechanic and abilities. Again, Metamorphosis as a Warlock in WoW is exactly how Metamorphosis as a DH in WoW is supposed to work. The only way DHs could appear in this game now is if Blizzard completely erased the Demonology Warlock spec and Dark Apotheosis and started over. I seriously doubt that's going to happen at this point, given the rise in popularity of Warlocks and the Demonology spec in general.
    Whatever, they just give it to Demon Hunters and call it something else. You're smoking crack if you think otherwise.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral DonQShot's Avatar
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    I need only to say that your 5 reasons together hold no weight at all.
    For those interested to know how a Demon Hunter can be done just access the DH link in my sig. All your and Teriiz's doubts will be answered.
    I mean, I could give all those points given by Teriz a backsmack answer but he wouldn't listen...

  11. #11
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottsdaleHokie View Post
    Whatever, they just give it to Demon Hunters and call it something else. You're smoking crack if you think otherwise.
    What would they call it, and what would it look like? Again, there's not a lot of room for creativity here. Either you're going to make a DH class, or you're not. Metamorphosis in all of its glory is a Warlock ability, and that's not going to change. So with that core ability gone, what does that leave for DHs? Why even bother?

    That's the point.

  12. #12
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    They could do something unexpected and make Demon Hunters an Int-leather class regardless of spec (which would make it three for three: AGI leather to rogues, druids, and monks, INT leather to druids, monks, and Demon Hunters). Also, since Dark Apothesis is the result of a glyph, and not a major class mechanic (Ghostcrawler all but confirmed it was really just there to have fun with and mess around on, and that Demonology would not be themed around its use), a similar mechanic could be applied as the Demon Hunter's "stance." As other posters have noted, copied class mechanics aren't quite a rarity, so giving Demon Hunters an alternately-named Evasion and an AoE that applies fire damage over time would both be completely doable--the real problem lies in the same issue Death Knights and Monks faced: coming up with talents, abilities, passives, and lore relevance for the sudden surge in Demon Hunters among what races become eligible.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  13. #13
    Number 4 is a reason why Demon hunters will be implemented. I want this and I want it on an orc.


  14. #14
    We already have enough idiots RPing Demon Hunters in capital cities, I really don't want it to become legitimate...

    And on that note, Demon Hunters remind me of emo kids trying to look edgy and badass. Don't need to see that -everywhere- I look.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    ...In the end, if you want to play a Demon Hunter in WoW, you probably should roll a Warlock.
    I agree with the OP... Given the look of the challenge mode armors for Warlocks I feel Demon Hunters will not exist as a full class. However, I do feel it is entirely possible for Dark Apotheosis (Glyph of Demon Hunting) to become a Warlock Tanking spec in it's own right. Granted a 4th spec may not work for every class but if they named the spec Demon Hunter with the passives: Demon Sight, Duel Wield, War Glaive proficiency and move the Metamorphosis abilities from Demonology you'd have a just about everything needed for a fully functional tank spec.

    Just a thought

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    That is a good point Kalium. Its called the Glyph of Demon Hunting for a reason.

    You'll probably never see a Demon Hunter class, but thanks to Warlocks, there's a good chance that you may see a Demon Hunter spec down the road.

  17. #17
    1-3 has some credibility but 4 made me crack up. really? come on. plus DH won't be a class unless there is another burning legion xpac

  18. #18
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    They look cool. They have awesome looking weapons and attitudes. They're among the most popular classes in WoW. However, you're probably never going to see them appear in the game as a playable class. That's not to say that it's impossible, just HIGHLY unlikely. If Blizzard announces the Demon Hunter class at the next Blizzcon, I'll happily eat crow, and prepare to roll one late next year when the next expansion releases. However, until that unlikely event occurs, here's the 5 reasons you'll more than likely never see a Demon Hunter as a playable class in WoW.
    WELCOME EVERYONE! To the Dokhidamo thread dissection for today. Now I'm a major proponent of adding more classes, because I feel they can be the most reliable source of new and fun content for players. So is the OP right? Is DH a pipe dream? Well let's find out...


    1.The Abilities

    Probably the biggest thing hampering the introduction of a Demon Hunter class is that its primary abilities have been farmed out to other classes. Rogues have Evasion, Priests had Mana Burn, and Warlocks have Immolation Aura, and Metamorphosis. Now keep this in mind, when Blizzard introduced the Monk class, they took the entire Brewmaster ability set and applied it to the new class. The same thing occurred when Blizzard introduced Death Knights in WotLK. This wouldn't be a problem if the Warlock and Rogue abilities weren't exactly like Demon Hunter abilities, but they are. Metamorphosis is exactly how you would picture the WC3 spell in WoW. Demonology locks even transform into Demons the way DHs would if they were in WoW.

    I really can't stress how important this point is. There's no way Blizzard is going to introduce the exact same mechanic for 2 classes. Also if they did, what would they give the DH that would be different from the Warlock? The Warlock has every conceivable ability that could exist from Metamorphosis. There's nothing more that can be created or taken from that ability to make it different for the DH. Now Blizzard could make DHs without Meta, but what would be the point? Meta was what made DHs amazing in the first place.

    BTW, I personally feel that Blizzard made a colossal misstep by giving Warlocks Metamorphosis and DA. I would have preferred a DH class utilizing those abilities. Now thanks to that move, we're more than likely never going to see DHs in this game. Nice move fellas...
    This is always my favorite part to debate when it comes to the DH, because players have a lot of misconceptions of what has to be a baseline skill and what can only be given to one class. There's two major examples I want to make clear first, then tie them into the OP's argument.

    1. Before WotLK, Warlocks had the ability Death Coil. It delt damage and feared the target. When the DK was introduced, people questioned how they would give it Death Coil when it was already given to Warlocks. Blizzard renamed the original DC to Mortal Coil and gave the DK Mortal Coil.

    2. In WC3, Brewmasters had the ability Storm, Earth, and Fire. They also had Breath of Fire. When the hero was updated to being the Monk Class, neither of those abilities became baseline for the Monk. BoF went to Brewmaster, and SEF will be given to Windwalker in 5.2.

    Now how does this relate to the Demon Hunter? Let's look at their 3 abilities from WC3.

    Evasion - This is by no means class-specific. Yes, rogues were given it, but all classes have dodge chances. This could be a good ability to give to Demon Hunter tanks. It could even be a passive boost to dodge chance instead of an active ability like Rogues.

    Mana Burn - This was removed in 5.0. There is no reason this cannot be given to the Demon Hunter. Plus, the fact it was removed is a good pointer that DH is possible.

    Immolation (Aura) - Easy to either change it's name or the name of the warlock aura.

    Metamorphosis - This is the big one people point to when they say DH won't happen. They assume the DH would have this ability baseline, and also assume it's only an option for one class. Let's face it, the Warlock ability was closest to it's source material in the MoP beta when it let them tank. Then Blizz nerfed it. Editing/removing the ability would have little negative impact on the Demonology spec. Giving it as a tanking mechanic for Demon Hunter would be much closer to the true source material than the mockery the Warlock turned it into. Remember, Warlock was once used as a reason the DK couldn't work as a class.

    2.Gameplay

    Another issue is how DH gameplay would work over three specs. DHs have a pretty uniform style of play. Its so uniform that going outside of that means that you're not really playing a DH anymore. Death Knights also had this issue. To compensate, Blizzard took abilities and concepts from every undead hero and fused them into the DK class. Blood came largely from the Dreadlord, Frost came from the Lich, and obviously UH came from the Death Knight. It all made sense because the Undead/Scourge all came from the same general source of power, so it was conceivable that the Death Knight could legitimately pull from all of those sources and make a varied style of gameplay.

    But what about Demon Hunters? I mean yeah, you have the WC3 hero with its four abilities (which are already used by other classes), but what else can you do with it? The Night Elf heroes and units don't really go well with the Demon Hunter concept, and most of those abilities are taken by other classes. How are you going to take that narrow style of gameplay and split it into three distinct specs without significant overlap? Worse, how are you going to avoid making it feel like a do-over of Rogues?
    So you make two major questions here. First, what specs can you make? Second, how can you make it different from the Rogue? I can do both right here off the top of my head.

    Demonic Fury - Melee DPS Spec - Specializes in dual wielding and aggressive attacks. Plays a lot like the fury warrior (use a rage-like mechanic) but with more utility (like a rogue). This is your traditional glaive-wielding Demon Hunter.

    Dark Ranger - Ranged DPS Spec - Finally a spec other than Hunters that uses ranged weapons. Plays a lot like the Diablo 3 Demon Hunter (people /do/ like it). But instead of traps, they use curses (almost like affliction). It sits about midway-leaning-SPriest between SPriest and Warlock on the DoT VS Direct Damage scale.

    Transfiguration - Tanking Spec - This is the spec you've all been waiting for, this is the metamorphasis spec. It has a lot of AoE abilities (aura-style, not place and forget style). Designed around using 2h weapons for powerful, but infrequent, attacks. This is a traditional "eat the damage" spec that makes up for not having a shield by having an increased chance to dodge.

    The only spec I mentioned with any relation to rogue was Demonic Fury, which suffers from the fact melee is generally very boring.

    3. Class Balance

    Though not as major as the first two, this is another problem with bringing DHs into WoW. DKs and Monks fit relatively well with the game's structure. DKs took the third spot for plate, and Monks took up the third spot for leather. Monks even gave some competition with Druids for INT Leather. Both classes also came in as hybrids, giving the game new opportunities to tank or heal. Both also came in as melee classes. Thankfully both classes were hybrids so players could spec into either tanking or healing if a raid or group needed something besides DPS.

    DHs present an interesting dilemma in that regard; They would be melee, and they would more than likely have to wear leather. Granted, they could wear mail, but that clashes strongly with the class' lore. Currently, Mail is the last armor type that doesn't have three classes going for it. Mail is semi-heavy armor. Demon Hunters don't wear heavy armor. In fact, Demon Hunters barely wear any armor at all. At best they would wear leather or cloth. Anyone willing to believe that we're getting yet another leather wearing, agility-based, melee class? Didn't think so.
    I'm going to take this one step at a time, as you raise a number of issues.

    Melee - As shown above, 2/3 specs could be melee. However, right now the game actually has more ranged classes than melee classes. So Blizz can add more melee and not inflate the ranks of the melee.

    Leather - Here is where I'm going to blow your mind. They can wear mail. In WC3 the Brewmaster wore cloth (their hat is the cloth hat model for leveling), now the Monk wears leather. There's decent justification. Now the Demon Hunter can wear mail because the justification is if you're going to fight a Legion on the offensive, having a bare chest is just silly. I mean Blizz can't make DH's unable to use chest armor, so already their "signature look" is ruined. Also, I don't consider mail to be heavy armor. If Hunters can make it work, it's not heavy.

    4.The Illidan problem

    Let's be honest; People want to play Demon Hunters so that they can look like Illidan Stormrage. He's probably the coolest and most iconic character in Warcraft. People want to run around with those wings, blindfolds, and Warglaives. People want those runes over their body, and they want to wreck stuff the way he wrecks stuff. So how would this work in-game? Probably not too well. If you introduce Demon Hunters, you're going to see a surge of Night Elf male characters popping up all over the place. None of them are going to want to use regular swords or staffs, or whatever else DHs could potentially use. They would all want the Blades of Azzinoth on their backs, and anyone without those blades would be considered a noob. Would they want to wear helmets, shoulders, cloaks, and chest gear? Nope. They'd run around shirtless just like Illidan. They'll never want to raid because they couldn't look like Illidan while their raiding. You think Blizzard is going to create an entire item system just for DHs? I mean, they could, but I seriously doubt it.

    It'll be an utter and complete disaster.
    The fact that people rip off the lore is always always going to happen, and that's why I'm thankful Blizz doesn't make design decisions just on RP. In truth, the horror situation you describe will never happen.... except maybe on Moon Guard.
    However, you do raise a point with the glaives. The answer may be to just consider them as 1h swords, as Blizz already did with the warglaives, and then add in special animations for using them. And yes, that means their expansion would have a number of warglaive drops.

    And one other thing, these don't have to be Illidari Demon Hunters. I think the Black Harvest could be the starting point of seeding a new type of post-Illidan Demon Hunter.

    5.Better class options available

    Despite their insane popularity, DHs aren't the best class options for the game. Several classes would be a better fit for modern WoW, and offer more to the playerbase, and overall class balance. Tinkers, Spellbreakers, and Rangers are just a few examples. Obviously though, none of those classes have the same appeal as Demon Hunters do.
    Tinkerer - Would mandate the removal of Engineering. I like the Tinkerer, but it won't fit the inevitable Us VS Legion expansion coming in 2-4 years.

    Spellbreaker - Blizz has said their ranks are all but decimated, and Lor'themar is not allowing for the training of any more.

    Rangers - Is a hunter without the pet. Blizz already said htey won't happen.





    Conclusion: With a bit of wiggling, and some creativity from the dev team, the Demon Hunter can be a great addition to the game. And provide excitement for players from level 65 (assuming they're heroic) to level 255.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  19. #19
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    I know that demon hunters most likely never become a class, but we can dream can't we? Atleast until they make a WC4.

    First off: Who says they have to be like their WC3 class? The WC3 DK had Death Coil, Unholy Aura, Death Pact, and Animate Dead. The WoW DK has all of these, but many more, and IMO, only Animate Dead is an iconic spell for the class which is among those four abilities. THE Deathknight spell that comes to mind for me is Death Grip.

    Second: There are several play styles that are able to be done for a Demon Hunter. They are very adept at magic and melee weapons. This opens up a play style that could combine magical abilities from a mage and the dualweilding power of a rogue in an enhancement shaman style type class. Another spec option comes to mind from DotA, he has the DH skin but I cannot remember his name, but he is like an anti-caster hero. He drains mana from opponents and then his abilities gain power for the amount of mana is gone from his opponent. This would fit in lore-wise because DHs give up their physical eyes in order to see the magical energies better. The third playstyle that comes to mind would be what would have been warlock's DA tanking from the beta. All of those are much more different from the rogue's playstyles...

    Third: You got me there... As a rogue the last thing I want is more competition for armor, we had so many often-played class on the vanquisher token at the end of Cata, I really don't want that again.

    Fourth: Illidan is a problem. Granted, I do have a armor set that looks like a DH's gear, pretty much just a kilt, leather helm from Illidan, and warglaives. This would most likely just be done in tier armor, I'm sure they can find some other awesome looks for a DH. Honestly, I could see a reason for DHs to use polearms, which would make a legit reason to use a polearm for xmog (so many cool models but all wasted on kitty druids where you cant see anything D: ), which is really what a glaive is.

    Fifth: There are probably other classes that would be easier to impliment, but tinker seems just like a profession (engineering), ranger seems like a hunter minus the pet, and as stated in my second point DHs could take the role of spellbreakers (whos swords are equally epic as the warglaives )

    They could have starting weapons be a warglaive-like item... more like a sword, less glowy, AND IT WOULD HAVE A PANDA FACE IN THE HILT LIKE IN WC3!!

    I will probably post/edit as I get more ideas, also I have had this signature for a while. This took a while to type so people may have posted what I have to say before too :P
    Why is there no "Demonhunter" hero class yet? He was only the coolest hero in WC3. Get busy Blizzard.

  20. #20
    None of your five points are valid imo.

    I would love to see a demon hunter class, it would be pretty badass. And, as someone said earlier, I think monks prove that if the player-base community all express enough that it is something they want, blizzard could pull through with it.
    "If the people who are trying to destroy this world aren't taking a day off, then why should I?"

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